Honestly guys...I might not take paypal anymore...

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

I know this has been discussed before but I have to get this off my chest. Am I protected in the following scenario?

I send a package via Registered Mail insured for $500.00. I see that it arrived at the Post Office on the 16th at 8:29 AM and an attempt to deliver is made and a note was left. The buyer emails me on the 20th asking where his package is. He then asks me if I insured it?????? He then tells me that he hopes his wife didn't throw them out..hmmm.

I gave the post office his phone number and he's going to pick up the package tonight. Of course he has to show a drivers license or proper ID.
Just so you know, this guy has 9 negatives in 90 dealings so of course I'm a tad concerned.

Now...What if he switches the cards and files a claim with paypal stating that he didn't receive what he ordered? He then could mail me two 1987 Topps cards certified Mail to my po box. Do I have any protection at all?
If I don't, my paypal days are history, and I would never ever use them again.

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Posted By: Mark T

i believe paypal may take in to consideration that his feedback is horrible. If he has tried this before then its all on file.

I think USPS and paypal know people will do this sort of thing, i think you will be safe. It does sound weird that he asked if they were insured. It is too bad that from this one guy you may have to cancel your paypal account.

Also, get any money in you paypal account out NOW.

Goodluck

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Posted By: Sean BH

I agree with Mark, probably nothing to worry about but...

I second - Also, get any money in you paypal account out NOW.

sdbh

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

Well I cleared out my account but the problem is I had auctions end last night. I also forget to mention that in one of his emails he told me that he and his wife checked the whole house and couldn't find the package. That was before he asked me if I insured it. Oh man, I really have a terrible feeling about this guy and I'm usually right when my gut tells me something is wrong. I just wish Ebay could set something up when dealing with bidders that have terrible feedback. I should have told the buyer that I was concerned about his feedback, and that if he wants the cards, he's going to have to send a money order.

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Posted By: Zinn

Say you have a winning bidder with 9 negatives out of 90. Are you required to sell to him/her? Assume you're just out the ebay fees and inviting a neg if you choose not to.

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Posted By: Sean BH

"he told me that he and his wife checked the whole house and couldn't find the package."

What did he say when he found out the package was at the post office? I would think that PayPal would back you with it being delivered by registered mail (assuming it was a confirmed address). I've never had a problem with someone saying the wrong thing was delivered, so I'm not sure how that works.

What kind of negs does this guy have(was he a buyer or seller)?

sdbh

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Posted By: Red

Although registered mail is the safest and most secure way of sending anything through the Post Office it's useless as proof of delivery for PayPal. If you didn't have a signature confirmation on the package you will lose if the buyer files a claim. PayPal is usually okay as long as you follow their rules to the letter.

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Posted By: Mark T

If you could send a link to the buyers Eaby page or feedback so others will know about him and maybe someone had the same problem.

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Posted By: barrysloate

A registered package has to be signed at every step, including by your buyer upon receipt. Once he signs for it, he can't say he never got it, or simply can't find it in the house. I would check out this guy's negatives and see if there is a pattern to them. That might help you a great deal.

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Posted By: Mark T

Paul thinks the guy will get the package and take cards out. Then, replace them with 2 crap cards and say he received the wrong cards.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I know, and in theory anybody could do that. I could win a lot from a major auction house and tell them I received an empty box. How does a seller protect himself from that? I have no idea.

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Posted By: Chris

Paul, I would call the guy and talk to him personally. It can't hurt and it may give you an idea of what he is trying to do.

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Posted By: Vincent

If the package was signed for, via Registered Mail, then the problem his. You know know what was initially packed. If the buyer switches cards, and trys the "I didn't get what I paid for" scam, the burden is still on him to make the refund occur. You have payment. You have proof of delivery. A negative feedback reply via eBay can be countered with your explanation. And if he used PayPal, he's got there buyer protection, up to $2000. How the buyer protection impacts you as a seller accepting Paypal is unknown to me.

If he chooses to pursue legal action to force a refund, it certainly is his right. But, the initial legal expense is his to bear. And he'll have to explain his less-than-sterling ebay rating.

He may huff, and he may puff, and he may paint a very bleak picture for you. I wouldn't give in. He may find that by you not giving in, it may not be worth his effort to pursue a false claim.

Perhaps the legal experts associated with this forum can provide you with some valuable (& free) advice. I know that is one of the reasons I value this forum. Top notch members.

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Posted By: T206Collector

I have insurance with Collectors Insurance Agency and I think they cover you for a loss in a situation like this.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Visit http://www.t206collector.com this month as we count down 4 Magies, 2 Wagners and a Plank!

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Posted By: Darren

Hey Paul,

I understand your problems with paypal. Many collector's like myself shy away from sellers who do not accept it, so consider that when making a decision....you MAY be leaving money on the table as a result.

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Posted By: Andrew

Although registered mail is the safest and most secure way of sending anything through the Post Office it's useless as proof of delivery for PayPal. If you didn't have a signature confirmation on the package you will lose if the buyer files a claim. PayPal is usually okay as long as you follow their rules to the letter.

____________

Similar question to ones just replied: Registered Mail requires recipient signature, is this not the same as signature confirmation for Paypal purposes?

"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

Well the package is under lock and Key in Charlotte, NC and I just called and thank God it was still there. I just added delivery confirmation to the package and have that tracking number. The lady at the PO was so nice she's even going to mail the information and DC receipt to my po Box. Well now I should have everything covered except the buyer could still switch the merchandise. I'll tell you right now, if the buyer shows up and sees the Delivery confirmation sticker and he backs out, I'm leaving him 2 negatives.

What is the difference between Registered Mail, Insured Mail, and Deliviery confirmation???? As long as they sign for it, isn't that good enough? So if I sell a $200.00 item I should send insured Mail and also add delivery confirmation? That seems crazy to me! I also emailed paypal with this scenario and I'm waiting for a response.

People on the Ebay message board told me that I'd be screwed without delivery confirmation thats why I called the Charlotte, NC Post Office and had that feature added to my REGISTERED package. This is just fricking crazy!

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Posted By: shane

"Although registered mail is the safest and most secure way of sending anything through the Post Office it's useless as proof of delivery for PayPal. If you didn't have a signature confirmation on the package you will lose if the buyer files a claim. PayPal is usually okay as long as you follow their rules to the letter."


Red is 100% right unfortunately. I had the same thing happen where I sent a $700 package to a guy via registered mail. Paypal pulled the money out of my account without notice and told me that I had to prove that I sent it by a signature confirmation. I told them I had done it better than that, I had it registered. They told me to go fly a kite because that was not sufficient. Now I have two accounts with eBay - one to buy (paypal account) and one to sell (no paypal accepted).

Shane

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Posted By: leon

Ordering delivery confirmation to a Registered package is sort of like adding 1 gallon of water, from a jug, to the fire hydrant putting out a fire......It doesn't make sense but then again neither does Paypal.....good luck with it!!

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Posted By: Steve

Similar question to ones just replied: Registered Mail requires recipient signature, is this not the same as signature confirmation for Paypal purposes?


NO Paypal requires ELECTRONIC signature. The pink slip signature is also NG.

Electronic signature costs 85 cents while the pink one costs 2.50 I hink and is useless. (as far as pal pal is concerned.

Steve

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Posted By: Sean BH

The "PayPal" rules are:

If it's $249.99 or less only delivery confirmation is needed.

$250+ you need to add signature confirmation (A signature from Insurance or Registered Mail doesn't count).

Everything must be shipped to a confirmed address.

They really annoy me, the people at the post office think you're strange when you need to add signature confirmation to a registered package, since they have to sign for it anyway...

I like money orders and beer.

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

This is right from the Paypal site...

Packages should be sent with tracking numbers. Once you get a tracking number from the shipping service, promptly send it to the buyer. As an extra precaution, you should consider adding delivery confirmation. Finally, make sure to keep proof that the package was received by the buyer.

You should consider...What the hell does that mean? It sure doesn't seem like its etched in stone.

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Posted By: Red

Adding Delivery Confirmation to the package won't protect you with PayPal because it's over $250. Delivery Confirmation covers you for packages under $250 but Signature Confirmation is required for packages over $250. That's one of the many PayPal rules you must follow if you want their protection against a claim. Postal Insurance and Registered Mail protects you against the Post Office. The two Confirmation services is what PayPal wants you to use if you want their seller protection. Like Leon said it's absurd putting a Confirmation tag on Registered Mail but that's PayPal rules.

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

Well he never picked up the package and its still in Charlotte at the USPS center. I'm calling there first thing tomorrow and telling them to send it back. So let me get this straight. If I send a $100.00 package and he pays via Paypal, do I only need delivery confirmation and no insurance? Now if the package is over $250.00 I need Signature Confirmation but do I also need insurance? His user ID is ryanlee_rover and I have him blocked from my auctions. I'm not sure why he didn't pick the package up but everything about this whole transaction is very fishy.

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Posted By: Anonymous

This is a catch 22 situation. I won't buy from a seller that doesn't accept Paypal for fear of scams. Then some sellers won't accept Paypal for the the same reason.

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Posted By: leon

Please shoot me a quick private email. There's no issue but I need to ask you something....thanks much

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Posted By: Red

Sometimes life happens and picking up a baseball card the moment it hits the Post Office is not a drop everything priority for everyone. Maybe it just needs time to be delivered and everyone will be happy.

When you accept PayPal you agree to their terms of use. They say they'll do their best to protect you if you follow all their rules and ship a certain way.

You insure a package to protect against loss or damage when in the Postal system. This has nothing to do with protecting you from a scam buyer or PayPal.

You have to ship a certain way in order to have any protection from PayPal if you run into a problem. PayPal wants to see a Delivery Confirmation or Signature Confirmation when over $250 or you have no leg to stand on if there's a problem(real or made up). Having those confirmations is insuring yourself against PayPal or a scammer.

If you package well and send everything out with a Signature Confirmation you're "insuring" yourself very well against loss or damage, and you cover yourself with PayPal disputes. Things don't typically get "lost" when people have to sign for them. Paying extra to the Post Office for their insurance is really just a waste if you pack well and use Signature Confirmation. If you'd lose sleep at night then insure it. If you don't want to pay for it then make it a required cost in your listings. The most important thing is to read all the PayPal rules for seller protection.

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

Paul, the customer has 15 days to pick up a Registered parcel. The Post Office attempts delivery on day one, and if no one is home they put a pink notice in the mailbox. On day 5 a second notice is left in the mailbox. After 15 days the item is returned to sender.

I know that my local Post Office is open from 9 to 430, so sometimes I have to let an insured or registered parcel sit at the PO until I can pick it up on Saturday morning.

Rick