Suggestions for Grading Companies

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Posted By: Phil Garry

Mark:

Thank you for your very professional response to my concerns about Beckett. You have changed my mind about your company and I look forward to working with you in the near future on some submissions.

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Posted By: leon

I think this auction (below) also shows how the baggie in the Beckett holders prevents a nice display of the card. Maybe there is a solution and that IS THE ONLY reason I am bringing this up. Maybe some series get baggies and others don't? (I have no idea of ownershiop and no affiliation with this ebay auction)

http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-19-Coupon-Cigarettes-Dots-Miller-BGS-BVG-2-GOOD_W0QQitemZ200238684027

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Posted By: Matt

Just to echo Leon's comment - every card from that seller that is in a BVG slab has the issue:
linked

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Posted By: Mark Anderson

Jerry & Bilko - yep, Roop was who I was thinking of. They made beautiful boxes, but I think there just aren't enough people who will buy those in quantity. If either of you (or anyone else) has specific ideas for what you would like to see, feel free to email them to me (or post). although I doubt we would be mass producing something like that anytime soon, we do have companies come in from time to time who might be interested in making them on their own.

Red - Yes, our sleeves are made from Polypropylene. It is certified by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI), and was recommended to us by the Library of Congress as the best archival-safe storage for paper. It is ideal because it is stiff (to better hold the cards), high clarity (many archival plastics are hazy or cloudy), and chemically stable. It is PVC-free and plasticizer-free. The slabs themselves are polystyrene, which is also a chemically-stable, non-PVC, archival-safe plastic.

Leon, Jeffrey, etc. - Thanks for the link to that seller's scans. Those are the worst I've seen. He does mention that he is having trouble with the brightness on his scanner (you can see the label of his lone GAI card also has bad glare), so maybe that is a factor? It seems there are some scanners that can get nice, problem-free images, while others shoot too much light while scanning and the inner sleeve reflects it every direction. It seems to be the smaller cards that are affected (of course that means virtually ever pre-war card!). Perhaps Jeffrey can post what brand and model of scanner he uses? Jeffrey, have you scanned any pre-war or otherwise smaller than standard size cards?

Mark

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

Mark -
The biggest problem I have with the inner sleeve that Bvg cards are sealed in isn't because it's tough to get a good scan. The biggest problem is when a card is placed snug in between two pieces of a plastic sleeve there will still be some sort of movement. Minimal at best, but still it will shift.
I have seen many a Psa card in a baggy slab that has left a residue from the surface of the card on the sleeve just by being pressed together for an extended amount of time, and when the card shifts, even if it's slight you can see surface loss from the card on the sleeve itself.
The longer the card is in that baggy and pressed together on that card the more luster it will take off the surface. I'm sure others have seen this issue before.
This system might work fine with todays shiny stuff that have glossy finish's but another alternative should be in place to preserve pre war cards that have a much more sensitive surface finish.

Tony

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Posted By: Joe D.

"Joe, that is interesting on the Cracker Jack scan. I rarely ever see that. Sometimes I see glare on the bottom of the sleeve, but the middle glare is very unusual in my experience."

Mark - I don't mean to sound like I am picking on you. But in my experience, it is NOT unusual to see middle glare on beckett cards. Also - since I know the slabs are prone to this glare, it makes the minor edge or corner glare all that much more annoying.


Rob -
the card is in a PSA 5 holder right now - but honestly the card is a strong 6 (6.5).
I may resubmit or crack and resubmit at some point.

Beckett's grading was more accurate IMO - but the slab was too annoying.

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Posted By: Dave F

While I understand what Mark is saying on the sleeve being there for protection, unfortunately it still just makes for an ugly slab. This one is a PSA slab, which may be even uglier..but none the less my personal preference won't allow me to leave it in this holder for very long.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Although it seems a few here don't like BVG's inner sleeve I am one who does. I've scanned hundreds of BVG slabs without any problem from glare and have many older cards that were slabbed in early 2000 that have zero signs of wear or damage caused by the inner sleeve from sticking or other means.

However I do have SGC cards in my collection where the edges of the black insert have dug into the edges of the card and I have also seen SGC slabbed cards where the card itself has slid between the black insert and the slab itself..

Love it or hate The BVG slab offers the best protection Imo

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Posted By: Matt

"I have also seen SGC slabbed cards where the card itself has slid between the black insert and the slab itself.."

I had seen that as well, but SGC reworked their slabs about 6 months ago specifically to solve this issue and I haven't seen it on any of the slabs issued since then.

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Posted By: Anonymous

It's good to hear that have fixed the problem with cards sliding between the insert and slab, But another huge concern of mine is the insert itself digging into the edges of the card. Has anybody else ever had this problem or seen it?

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Posted By: Mark Anderson

Tony, I've honestly never heard of a single instance of that being an issue with our sleeves. Keep in mind that when PSA uses inner plastic, it is two separate sheets, or an actual penny sleeve, that is then held in place by the two slab pieces being sealed together. Our sleeves are of a different material which I've never seen an example of a card sticking to it. We leave the corners open intentionally to allow the card to "breathe" within the slab and not trap air inside the sleeve. Rather than 2 piece of plastic, our sleeves are customized to hold the card snugly enough to prevent movement, but without compromising the edges of the card. We have multiple sizes available, and we custom create sleeves for odd-sized cards. This is all part of our patented design (which includes the specifics of the inner sleeve). If you've seen an example of a card sticking to our sleeve and being damaged, please shoot me a scan or send me an example, as I would be most interested in seeing it.

Joe D, Dave F, etc: No doubt there are glare problems with the inner sleeves for many of you. At some point, though, we do have to weigh the pros and cons, and one side is going to be a bit disappointed. It would be great to have every submission made-to-order (with or without sleeves, with or without subgrades, with or without scans, etc.), but it's simply not feasible. I'll definitely check on anything we can do to improve the scan-ability, but I can't think of a solution offhand. Being completely upfront with you, our feedback has been overwhelmingly positive on the inner sleeves, so unless we were flooded with requests to get rid of them, chances are slim we would do so. All of our research clearly demonstrates that they offer the best protection over other alternatives, and at this point, people have preferred the protection over the scan-ability. But I admit, I'd sure love to find a solution that takes both into account, and am open to more ideas!

Thanks again to everyone for the input,
Mark

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Posted By: boxingcardman

I like the PSA plastic boxes for their positive seal design (the top slides down over part of the side, which means a spill on the top is unlikely to seep into the box--unless the water flows upward) and their ribbed interiors to hold the slabs without them rubbing together (eliminating the need for a separate sleeve on each slab), plus their low cost ($5 a box). I would like to see a similar arrangement for Beckett and SGC slabs. Not such a fan of wood; the materials is too heavy and not moisture-proof. Cardboard is crap; you might as well just use a shoe box.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Mark Anderson

boxingcardman,

Any chance you have a picture of the plastic PSA box you are referring to? I've seen their old black coated cardboard boxes, but not a plastic one with slots/ribbing inside. Would love to see an example.

Thanks!

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Posted By: boxingcardman

http://cgi.ebay.com/2---NEW-Official-PSA-Graded-PLASTIC-STORAGE-BOXES-9-10-_W0QQitemZ270255152561QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL08071 31273r31180

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Jeffrey

Mark, sorry no, just getting into collecting slabs, so I don't have any pre-war or small stuff that I could scan. Will post the scanner type tonight.

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Posted By: MacDice

Throwing this out to everyone. Best card in your collection that is non-graded which service are you using?

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Posted By: Fred C

SGC