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  #1  
Old 06-23-2008, 11:42 AM
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Posted By: Bob C

Here is an interesting three-part, moderately difficult trivia question:
1. Under what circumstances in a nine inning MLB baseball game, would EACH player on the losing team have EXACTLY the same batting average at the end of the game as EACH of them had at the beginning of that same game?
2. Name the HOF, MVP and All Star pitcher of the winning team who actually caused this (whom I believe is still with us), AND what was the year and issue of his pre-war RC? (This is actually a hint.)
3. Name the date and place of the game and, for extra credit, the winning and losing teams.
As I think about it, this may not be all that much a stumper, but fun stuff for those who do not know - regardless.

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  #2  
Old 06-23-2008, 11:45 AM
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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Ok - just read question 1 quickly and I'm probably wayyyyy off, but...

If there was a no-hitter on opening day? Since all players on the losing team would have started the day with a .000 average, and after being no-hit, would end the day with a .000 average - this would create such a result.

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  #3  
Old 06-23-2008, 11:48 AM
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Posted By: Bob C

Jon you are spot on. Nice.

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  #4  
Old 06-23-2008, 11:49 AM
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Posted By: Joe D.

1.
3 walks, 3 pickoffs every inning.

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  #5  
Old 06-23-2008, 11:49 AM
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Posted By: Matt

Yep - Feller did in 1940. This could actually technically happen during the season as well, although it never would. Every batter could walk and then get picked off.

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  #6  
Old 06-23-2008, 11:50 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta


Bob Feller's Opening Day No Hitter
April 16, 1941 - Comiskey Park

INDIANS (1) ab r h WHITE SOX (0) ab r h
Bodreau ss 4 0 0 Kennedy 3b 4 0 0
Weatherly cf 4 0 1 Kuhel 1b 3 0 0
Chapman rf 3 0 0 Kreevich cf 3 0 0
Trosky 1b 4 0 0 Solters lf 4 0 0
Heath lf 4 1 1 Appling ss 3 0 0
Keltner 3b 4 0 1 Wright rf 4 0 0
Hemsley c 4 0 2 McNair 2b 3 0 0
Mack 2b 4 0 1 Smith p 1 0 0
Feller 3 0 0 a-Rosenthal p 1 0 0
Totals 37 4 6 Brown p 0 0 0
Totals 28 0 0

a-singled for Smith in the 8th.


BATTING: 2B - Mack. 3B - Hemsley. RBI - Hemsley.
Team LOB - Indians, 7 White Sox, 6.

SB Kuhel. DP: 1 (Kuhel - unassisted).

--------------------------------------------------
INDIANS - 000 001 000 -- 1 6 0
WHITE SOX - 000 000 000 -- 0 0 0
--------------------------------------------------

INDIANS ip h r er bb so
Feller (W, 1-0) 9 0 0 0 5 8

WHITE SOX ip h r er bb so
Smith (L 0-1) 8 6 1 1 2 5
Brown 1 0 0 0 0 0

Umpires - Geisel, McGowan and Kolls.
T--3:17. Att--32,127.

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  #7  
Old 06-23-2008, 11:54 AM
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Posted By: Bob C

Too easy...you guys are good...but wait, his RC?

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  #8  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:03 PM
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Posted By: Rob D.

Ticket stub from the game:



(Dan, the Web site that provided your box score in incorrect. It was 1940.)

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  #9  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:09 PM
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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

An extra bit of trivia which is likely of zero interest to card collectors: The toughest autograph of any person on the field that day is by far that of umpire Lou Kolls, who was killed in an automobile accident the following year.

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  #10  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:10 PM
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Posted By: Eric Brehm

I like Joe D.'s answer better -- a game where no player on the losing team records a single At Bat. Until a player has at least one At Bat, they don't have a batting average. Zero divided by zero is indeterminate. Although .000 is what they display on the scoreboard for each player at the beginning of opening day, so I'll go along with it.

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  #11  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:14 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

How can you have six hits in one inning and not score a run?

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  #12  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:21 PM
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Posted By: Matt

Barry - first 2 get hits then get picked off. Next 3 get singles to load the bases. Last batter gets a single but runs out of the base line after it becomes an official hit and before the runner crosses home.

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  #13  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:25 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

If you run out of the base paths I'm not sure you would get credited for the single.

Another way is the sixth hitter lines one into the hole but it hits one of the baserunners. The batter gets credited with a single but the inning is over.

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  #14  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:27 PM
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Posted By: Matt

that would do it as well - good question. I would imagine if he ran out of the base path after rounding first that would do it as well, but getting hit by a batted ball is certainly a more likely solution.

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  #15  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:43 PM
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Posted By: DD

Theoretically, what is the fewest number of pitches a pitcher can throw in completing a 9 inning game?

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  #16  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:44 PM
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Posted By: Matt

24?

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  #17  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:48 PM
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Posted By: DD

Less than that

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  #18  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:52 PM
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Posted By: pas

0?

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  #19  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:55 PM
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Posted By: leon

-1

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  #20  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:02 PM
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Posted By: T206Collector

<<1. Under what circumstances in a nine inning MLB baseball game, would EACH player on the losing team have EXACTLY the same batting average at the end of the game as EACH of them had at the beginning of that same game?>>

If everyone had a .333 batting average and then each went 1-for-3 in the game, this would happen. Same for .250 and 1-for-4, etc.

With regards to the latest question, how can it be less than 27 pitches? I am unaware how to get 3 batters out in an inning without throwing at least 3 pitches. And if the answer is less than 27, then it must be zero, no?




_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Visit http://www.t206collector.com for signed pre-war card galleries, articles and more!

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  #21  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:03 PM
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Posted By: Dan

The answer is 9. If I recall correctly, the first batter of the inning hits a triple on the first pitch. He attempts to steal home and the batter is out due to batter interference and the runner returns to third. This happens the for the next two batters, this senario happens for the next 8 innings. This is theroretical and would never happen, but I remember reading this as a correct solution.

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  #22  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:04 PM
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Posted By: pas

I believe an umpire can call a ball if the pitcher fails to pitch within a certain amount of time, or illegally goes to his mouth. So, do that 4 times in a row to each batter and then pick him off first.

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  #23  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:05 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

I would guess the fewest number of pitches is nine.

The first two batters get on base over some technicality, like catcher's interference or something. Then the third batter hits the first pitch into a triple play. So the game would need nine triple plays.

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  #24  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:10 PM
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Posted By: leon

I do think there are several theoretical scenarios where the # of pitches could be 0.....it's really not that difficult to imagine though obviously it would never happen....

A pitcher pitches and the catcher interferes with the swing....no pitch and the runner goes to first....he gets picked off of first and is out....do this 26 more times.....0 pitches....(I think this would work but not positive)....cool question though

edited to add...if the above scenario wouldn't work then 3 balks and 3 pick offs x 9 innings will....

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  #25  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:12 PM
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Posted By: pas

You can't balk a batter to first.

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  #26  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:14 PM
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Posted By: leon

OK....revert to #1

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  #27  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:15 PM
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Posted By: Matt

great question! If the pitcher played for the home team and they were winning in the 9th, then he would only need to pitch in 8 innings, even though it was a nine inning game, so all those guesses of 9 could be 8. Of course, if 0 works, then it doesn't matter.

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  #28  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:24 PM
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Posted By: Bob C

Feller's RC is 1936 Bob Feller International News Photo which, I believe, was actually a card. It was issued 9 Days after his debut.
My head is spinning what with all of these possible combinations/permutations!

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  #29  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:24 PM
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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Matt - that is not correct... regardless if the pitcher was on the home team or not, the visiting team would still get 9 innings against him.

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  #30  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:30 PM
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Posted By: Matt

Jon - Doh! Of course you are correct.

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  #31  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:30 PM
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Posted By: Peter Thomas

A game called after 5 innings could be 5 pitches.

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  #32  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:30 PM
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Posted By: DD

I believe the answer is 9, at least according to the Ripley's Believe It Or Not cartoon I read about 35 years ago, where I first saw this question posed.

But like some Believe It Or Not's, it could be a not, and the answer could be 0.

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  #33  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:32 PM
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Posted By: Matt

Peter - the question presupposed a complete 9 inning game.

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  #34  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:35 PM
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Posted By: leon

If the game is 9 innings then the answer could be 0 I think...


8.02 The pitcher shall not-

(a) (1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber.

EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand.

PENALTY: For violation of this part of this rule the umpires shall immediately call a ball. However, if the pitch is made and a batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a hit batsman or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation. Repeated offenders shall be subject to a fine by the league president.




So no pitch is made if the pitcher goes to his face with his pitching hand and touches it.........and the umpire calls a ball....he does this 3 more times...the runner gets on first with 0 pitches....he gets picked off first...and the pitcher does this 26 more times...would this work?

edited...to change my answer to 0....

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  #35  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:39 PM
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Posted By: Matt

If the pitcher didn't die of dehydration first, that would work to get a 9 inning 0 pitch game.

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  #36  
Old 06-23-2008, 03:05 PM
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Posted By: pas

"Hit" only counts once.
Being out but crossing the bag does not count.

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  #37  
Old 06-23-2008, 04:02 PM
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Posted By: DD

Hit
Walk
Error
Dropped 3rd strike
Fielder's choice
Hit by pitch
Awarded by ump????
Catcher's interference

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  #38  
Old 06-23-2008, 05:01 PM
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Posted By: howard

Peter, I believe a batter can be balked to first. If I'm not mistaken certain actions are considered balks even in the are no baserunners. In these cases the batter is awarded a ball. Four of these and voila!

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  #39  
Old 06-23-2008, 05:05 PM
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Posted By: Matt

MLB official definition of terms:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/02_definition_of_terms.pdf
"A BALK is an illegal act by the pitcher with a runner or runners on base, entitling all runners to advance one base."

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  #40  
Old 06-23-2008, 05:17 PM
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Posted By: Todd Schultz

a catcher can balk, although it's charged to the pitcher.

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  #41  
Old 06-23-2008, 07:39 PM
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Posted By: pas

I do not believe a batter ever is awarded first base on a balk. Show me, if you would, a rule that says otherwise.

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  #42  
Old 06-23-2008, 07:40 PM
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Posted By: pas

you have 7 of the 9 i had in mind

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  #43  
Old 06-23-2008, 10:47 PM
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Posted By: Dennis W.

Add runner's interference to the list of ways to reach first. If a batted ball hits a base runner the runner is out and the batter is awarded first - I believe it's ruled a hit.

Because your question was worded "name 9 ways to get to first" as opposed to "name 9 ways for a batter to get to first" you can include being a pinch-runner.

Can anyone name the only situation where a batter is automatically awarded 3 bases (yes, there is such a rule)?

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  #44  
Old 06-23-2008, 10:59 PM
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Posted By: Ken Wirt

I believe that when a fielder throws his glove or any other part of his uniform at a batted ball in an attempt to stop it, all runners (including the batter/runner) are awarded three bases.

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