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  #1  
Old 05-11-2010, 09:15 AM
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Dan Bretta
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Default Antique Roadshow: California League Cabinets

If you get a chance to view this weeks episode...(it's on the PBS website now) there is a young man who brings in about 15 cabinet photos circa 1887 of the California League -There were 8 or 9 Haverly players and a bunch more that weren't really discussed and then there were three team cabinets. Mike Guttierez valued them at $10,000-$15,000 because none of them were Major Leaguers...I think he WAYYYY undervalued them.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:43 AM
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Dan, saw it. His appraisal was extremely low. When I heard him say 10-15K for the group I said, HUH???
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  #3  
Old 05-11-2010, 09:52 AM
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I saw that too. Here is the link to the appraisal...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/archive/200906A34.html

It appears that the show was taped in August 2009 - does anyone know if those cabinets have surfaced in the marketplace by now?
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  #4  
Old 05-11-2010, 09:52 AM
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I just watched it on my dvr this morning...way undervalued...I agree!!! If images could be matched up w/california oj's...or other cards...the sky's the limit!

How about those indian relics at the end...and that kashmir sapphire was amazing!!!

Last edited by ullmandds; 05-11-2010 at 09:53 AM.
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2010, 09:57 AM
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You can watch it here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/archive/200906A34.html

The real story with this appraisal is how did the great-great grandson come into possession of the goods? Very interesting.
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  #6  
Old 05-11-2010, 10:17 AM
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I believe these are the same group that were offered for sale a couple of years ago. They have not been sold that I know of. The owner knows what he has as the prices he was asking were very strong.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:20 AM
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With those 3-4 team cabinets and a dozen(ish) individuals, I'd say they were WAAAY off too. Gutierrez is supposedly an auto guy anyway. I've not been overly impressed with him or with the other dude on there when they've had BB stuff. I'd say those cabs would push $40-$50K in the right auction.

The Eskimo Indians stuff at the end was shocking.....the woman was just slightly impressed. I would have been floored.........$300K?

Last edited by autograf; 05-11-2010 at 10:21 AM.
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  #8  
Old 05-11-2010, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autograf View Post
With those 3-4 team cabinets and a dozen(ish) individuals, I'd say they were WAAAY off too. Gutierrez is supposedly an auto guy anyway. I've not been overly impressed with him or with the other dude on there when they've had BB stuff. I'd say those cabs would push $40-$50K in the right auction.
I always thought Simeon Lipman did a pretty good job of evaluating items.

I think Gutierrez did a horrible job here...no names given. Didn't even address the 7 or so cabinets that were on the table. I'd love to know what those were.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:33 AM
Bill Stone Bill Stone is offline
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I watched it last night and as I recall it was suggested that these might have been stolen from a museum ? Just a hint but I thought at some point he was going to say no value because they were stolen and may be reclaimed at any moment. Did anyone else get this impression?
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:38 AM
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I watched it last night and as I recall it was suggested that these might have been stolen from a museum ? Just a hint but I thought at some point he was going to say no value because they were stolen and may be reclaimed at any moment. Did anyone else get this impression?
They were probably deaccessioned. And if indeed they belonged to a museum they would probably have some markings on the back...to me it sounded like the kid probably got them passed down from his family. The images used in the book were probably taken from microfilm that the museum still has.
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  #11  
Old 05-11-2010, 11:01 AM
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John Spalding who wrote the book used in the sequence is very much alive and well. I spoke with him two weeks ago concerning some old guides. I am sure John might have some insight as to where the cabinets came from and how they came into Roadshow?
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2010, 11:05 AM
Bill Stone Bill Stone is offline
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My dear Watson this could be fun for our group. Deaccaessioning and disposal of materials from a museum usually follows a formal policy and should be well documented. So let's see if we can get a few elementary facts.
Can we start with the propostion that these photos are circa 1887?
If they had been in a museum is it logical that it was probably in California?
Was there a photo credit given in the book?
Just a few inital thoughts --I would think if these were, in fact, deaccessioned there would be a record at the musuem and it could greatly enhance the claim of the owner. Any other facts we can assume?
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:36 PM
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[quote=autograf;806884]With those 3-4 team cabinets and a dozen(ish) individuals, I'd say they were WAAAY off too. Gutierrez is supposedly an auto guy anyway. I've not been overly impressed with him or with the other dude on there when they've had BB stuff. I'd say those cabs would push $40-$50K in the right auction.

QUOTE]


I agree with Tom, definitely underpriced in today's market. He downplays the rarity of the cards because they are all "journeymen"? Give me a break.
You can also count me in with the crowd that feels something fishy occurred in the way they were acquired. If my great grandfather had played with the team and they were passed down to this guy by his grandfather, I would have to assume great granddad would be one of the cabinets and not the only one missing. Strange...
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbob View Post
I agree with Tom, definitely underpriced in today's market. He downplays the rarity of the cards because they are all "journeymen"? Give me a break.
You can also count me in with the crowd that feels something fishy occurred in the way they were acquired. If my great grandfather had played with the team and they were passed down to this guy by his grandfather, I would have to assume great granddad would be one of the cabinets and not the only one missing. Strange...
Maybe someone else in the family got Great Great Granddad's photo? Some of my grandparents stuff was divided up amongst the grandkids, some was auctioned off and some other stuff I got from my uncle...I have no idea what my cousins got and my cousins have no idea what I have.
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:48 PM
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I wonder if the grandfather loaned them to the museum and then they were returned to the family at a later date or something.

I bought a collection of photos once from a lady who sold me all the photos except her grandfather, she didn't have it. When the family divied them up years before it was divided that the photo of the grandfather went to one kid and the other had to settle for all the rest of the photos.

As for value, the team photos are worth $5,000+ each and it looked like there were 4 of those. The rest are worth at least $1000 each and probably more depending on condition and who the players were.

MINIMUM $40,000
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  #16  
Old 05-11-2010, 01:44 PM
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Cool too see that in my hometown episode. Agreed too..the quote was waay too low... it would definitely be interesting to see if John Spaulding can shed any light on this. I remember seeing him at bay area shows over the years..very nice man and scored some cards off of him too.
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  #17  
Old 05-11-2010, 02:59 PM
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Screw baseball cards. I'm gonna start collecting over-sized Eskimo spoons and carved raven thingamabobs. Same episode. $300,000. Wow.
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2010, 03:10 PM
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Screw baseball cards. I'm gonna start collecting over-sized Eskimo spoons and carved raven thingamabobs. Same episode. $300,000. Wow.
I used to collect Eskimo memorabilia, then I had a bad experience on the Inuit54 chat board. A couple of their board members ridiculed me when I suggested their ancestors came from Madagascar. It no longer was fun for me, so I sold all my hand-carved bone faces, soapstone kayaks and scenic engravings on their B/S/T.

Luckily, I'd been collecting that stuff only four days. I guess if you haven't been an Eskimo your whole life, they don't want you sharing ideas that have little to no basis of fact.

Last edited by Rob D.; 05-11-2010 at 03:13 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-11-2010, 03:25 PM
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Those Inuits can really get under your skin...likewise Hottentots.

Last edited by barrysloate; 05-11-2010 at 03:25 PM.
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  #20  
Old 05-11-2010, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob D. View Post
I used to collect Eskimo memorabilia, then I had a bad experience on the Inuit54 chat board. A couple of their board members ridiculed me when I suggested their ancestors came from Madagascar.
This sounds vaguely familiar. Were the guy who insisted on calling Malamutes "Sled Lemurs?"
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  #21  
Old 05-11-2010, 03:36 PM
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Tor: " You know, I lived with the Eskimos many years ago, and they used to plunge their faces into the snow."
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  #22  
Old 05-11-2010, 03:38 PM
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Bill,

You're eating too much dairy.
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  #23  
Old 05-11-2010, 04:03 PM
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Yours for five hundred bucks, Rob.
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  #24  
Old 05-11-2010, 05:09 PM
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  #25  
Old 05-11-2010, 05:27 PM
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Default California Deaquisition?

Probably just a coincidence, but there have been a lot of early 20th century California team and individual photos like this one on Ebay lately:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

These have included such notables as the L.A. Angels c.1906, individual photos of Pop Dillon and Hen Berry, etc., along with a number of semi-pro and town team pictures. A couple of the first ones from a month or so ago had something like "L.A. Athletic Foundation" and an address with zip code stamped on the back. I should have paid more attention to the name, but perhaps there has been a major deacquisition of a photo archive out there. And who is eBay seller WCM, or West Coast Memorabilia? I know they do a lot of photos, and they have the largest number of feedbacks (65,000) I've ever seen. Anybody know who they are?
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:29 PM
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I have 8 or 9 of the Warren Moon/ Edmonton Eskimos cards from Red Rooster... i could work out a trade if someone was a Moon fan.... some are better then others.

Ive never seen that card Kawika, where is that from. (I grew up in Edmonton)

How do you compliment an eskimo??? Nice tooth!
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:55 PM
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And who is eBay seller WCM, or West Coast Memorabilia? I know they do a lot of photos, and they have the largest number of feedbacks (65,000) I've ever seen. Anybody know who they are?
I'm pretty sure that's Will Hays who used to go by Sandiegowill on ebay.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:52 AM
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WCM is Will Hays, I have bought 10-15 lots from them over the past few years and every deal has been first class. He seems to pick up huge collections and then has several folks listing the items 2-3 days a week.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:46 PM
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Will has been first-rate in dealings with me.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:03 PM
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I am pretty sure the auctions they have been selling lately come from a totally legit collection from the Helms Foundation which was a Sports Museum in California and they absolutely have the legal right to sell them.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:12 PM
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I bought the Helms Foundation run of newletters from The College Football Historical Society. Each had a small UPC type sticker somewhere inside. The Helsm Foundation scanned all of their material and it is available on their website.
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