I got screwed over on the BST today!

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And what does any of this have to do with baseball cards where a buyer is free to ask questions if for any reason the scan isn't adequate? And I think the original example wasn't even a return just a cancellation before receipt.

Buyers change their mind. On Amazon.com, you can buy something and then cancel it before it ships and expect a refund. There is nothing unethical about this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glchen

Buyers change their mind. On Amazon.com, you can buy something and then cancel it before it ships and expect a refund. There is nothing unethical about this.

Dealing with the world's largest online retailer is not analogous in my view to a one on one card transaction. So in your view it's fine to win a week long auction, then say oh I changed my mind sorry seller? That seems ridiculous to me. And just as bad, or close, on a BIN.

[packs]

I'm still not really seeing the outrage. I get it that it's annoying that you thought you bought a card, but the real anger lies in selling your card and not being able to get it back on the other end of the deal.

Everyone was squared away when it was cancelled. There isn't a lingering refund problem or a lost card in the mail. I think it's reasonable to think twice about dealing with a seller, but I don't see why he should have to do something with his card he doesn't want to do (even though I realize no one forced him to put it up for sale).

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't see why he should have to do something with his card he doesn't want to do (even though I realize no one forced him to put it up for sale).

I've said it to you before in other threads and I'll say it in this one. You are an IDIOT!

You don't see why the seller should have to do something with his card that he doesn't want to do? Ummm, maybe because once he posted it for sale and accepted payment, IT WAS NO LONGER HIS CARD! He had an obligation to ship.

[packs]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I've said it to you before in other threads and I'll say it in this one. You are an IDIOT!

You don't see why the seller should have to do something with his card that he doesn't want to do? Ummm, maybe because once he posted it for sale and accepted payment, IT WAS NO LONGER HIS CARD! He had an obligation to ship.

Ok dude, reading is essential. It is his card and people are telling him what to do with it. I am of the opinion it's his decision ultimately and if he doesn't want to sell, he shouldn't just because you think he should. That's all I said, that's all I implied, and personally, if that makes me an idiot then it's nice on this side of the fence instead of the one you're on.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Ok dude, reading is essential.

So is comprehension. He offered a card for sale and took payment for it. You say "I don't see why he should have to do something with his card he doesn't want to do" and "if he doesn't want to sell, he shouldn't just because you think he should."

He ALREADY sold it. Do you not comprehend that??? This isn't something he was considering doing. He did it. Then he reneged on the deal. If you're okay with that, so be it. Your opinion is different than 99% of the rest of the board.

[packs]

That's fine. To me, the card is still yours until it's not, just like I said. People can feel however they want to feel about it, and most of us are able to express ourselves without personally insulting someone else. The point is, it's his card and I don't see why he should do what you tell him to do with it. It's his decision and he'll live with it. What is so wrong with that line of thinking? I'm not gonna jump because you say jump.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm still not really seeing the outrage. I get it that it's annoying that you thought you bought a card, but the real anger lies in selling your card and not being able to get it back on the other end of the deal.

Everyone was squared away when it was cancelled. There isn't a lingering refund problem or a lost card in the mail. I think it's reasonable to think twice about dealing with a seller, but I don't see why he should have to do something with his card he doesn't want to do (even though I realize no one forced him to put it up for sale).

I can't believe how ridiculous this response is. The problem is that after a transaction was completed (i.e. payment made) that the buyer then proceeded to create a subsequent transaction that could not be reversed.

Let's see if this helps, packs.

1) You buy a plane ticket to Hawaii for a week's vacation. You then purchase a hotel room and several day trips. At the last minute the flight decides to cancel because it isn't full enough. You don't get a refund for the hotel and day trips.

2) You get a new job at a Fortune 500 company. You respectfully put in 2 week's notice at your old job. The new job decides they want someone else. Your "old" company doesn't want you back.

3) Your son gets accepted to the State University. He then rejects his other offers. In late summer the State University decides they have too many students and cancels his acceptance.

4) Your daughter books a spectacular site for her wedding reception a couple years in advance. Everyone fly's in for the event, flowers and catering are paid for and ready, but the day before the wedding the site owner decides he would rather catch up on some sleep and not bother with allowing use of his property.

In each example the seller gave a full refund and wasn't "forced" to complete the transaction. So you actually blame the buyer for making plans before the transaction was complete?

[jbhofmann]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

I can't believe how ridiculous this response is. The problem is that after a transaction was completed (i.e. payment made) that the buyer then proceeded to create a subsequent transaction that could not be reversed.

Let's see if this helps, packs.

1) You buy a plane ticket to Hawaii for a week's vacation. You then purchase a hotel room and several day trips. At the last minute the flight decides to cancel because it isn't full enough. You don't get a refund for the hotel and day trips.

2) You get a new job at a Fortune 500 company. You respectfully put in 2 week's notice at your old job. The new job decides they want someone else. Your "old" company doesn't want you back.

3) Your son gets accepted to the State University. He then rejects his other offers. In late summer the State University decides they have too many students and cancels his acceptance.

4) Your daughter books a spectacular site for her wedding reception a couple years in advance. Everyone fly's in for the event, flowers and catering are paid for and ready, but the day before the wedding the site owner decides he would rather catch up on some sleep and not bother with allowing use of his property.

In each example the seller gave a full refund and wasn't "forced" to complete the transaction. So you actually blame the buyer for making plans before the transaction was complete?

DISCLAIMER-- I agree that the deal should have 100% went through and feel for the buyer.


I need a new driver.

I sell my old driver that is too stiff of a shaft for my declining swing speed after hearing my buddy say he'll sell me his extra.

Buddy says he actually is going to keep his driver because he just shot a 75 during our round.

I go to any number of stores and buy a new driver.


These silly examples can be played either way. While a '51 Mantle isn't a stock Callaway Big Bertha, it's not a black market Rembrandt either.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dealing with the world's largest online retailer is not analogous in my view to a one on one card transaction. So in your view it's fine to win a week long auction, then say oh I changed my mind sorry seller? That seems ridiculous to me. And just as bad, or close, on a BIN.

Well, ebay is the world's largest auctioneer, I believe...

Every circumstance has its own issue. I don't believe it's right buy some audio equipment, use it at your party, and then return it afterwards. Similarly, it's not right to bid in an auction that you never had any intention of paying. And I do believe that large auction companies will sue you if you do not pay your invoices. (I saw that Siegel, a large stamp auctioneer had a catalog just from the items from a large nonpaying bidder recently.) However, if you purchased a graded card that had a crease that was not visible in the online scan and was not described in the description, then I believe you have more of a case for a return. And frankly for a BIN, I believe you should be able to return or cancel anything that you want since there wouldn't be a loss on either side (other than perhaps shipping costs). Frankly, I sell on ebay, and I offer 14 day no questions asked returns (buyer pays return shipping cost). You can cancel an item before it ships, or return it for any reason, it's completely fine with me. Many of my buyers on ebay are repeat customers, so I want them to be as satisfied as possible from the transaction. If they have a bad taste in their mouth because the transaction went sour, they may not purchase from me again. And on the flip side, if they know that they will have a pleasant shopping experience when they purchase from me, then they are likely to look at my listings again and perhaps even purchase items from me even if my prices may be a bit higher than others. And I am not a big box store or retailer by any means, but just sell stuff as a hobby to support my collecting habits.

[Econteachert205]

Why does this incident need metaphors and analogies?

[2dueces]

Well I'm going to add my 2 cents here. Not because I should, because I have the right to remain silent, I just don't have the ability.
No one lost money? No one died? No one got put in jail?
Shitty deal but both parties will live?
I take it that is the last 1951 Mantle PSA 3 left on the face of the earth?
No? Then I suggest you take your $3k and find another and never deal with
this fellow again. Have a beer, relax, go to the bank and get all ones, spread
them on the bed and jump in. No harm, no foul.
The wisdom of the deuce and a little Ron White