Need Help On A Vintage Photo Update

[batsballsbases]

One of my contacts picked this up for me out in Ca. Im pretty good on wire photos but the early photos arenot my area. I loved the photo when I first saw it. its larger 6 by 8 in an original frame. The frame is 15 by 17. As you can see the glass is cracked but my contact said it didnt seem to effect the photo. I believe its a house team from Ca. Like to know about what year. Also a good ballpark price on what the photo is worth. The man who owned it was 90 and the photo had belonged to his father. Thanks in advance for any info. I ran this by a few board members who all said post it up !

Picture came today and it looks to me that the frame is old vintage. Now the photo looks like it is glued down to the mounting board. (was this how it was done?) Looks like the mount was cut down to accomodate the frame. The picture its self is 5 1/2 by 7 3/4 in size. Very clear. My questions are the paper that its on doesnt look like photographic paper (I could be wrong as I dont know old paper) and were they glued down to the mount alot. No names or markings on the mounting board.

[baseball tourist]

Love the equipment and uniforms. I will leave it to the experts to date and pricr it but assume it is c.1895-1900. If for sale, pls let me know. Chris

[aelefson]

I agree with Chris on the approximate age of the photo, although I too am not an expert). I believe it is worth about 100-140 or so, without any additional information, just based on the uniforms and overall image quality (assuming it is a cabinet type photo that is not damaged). If some research can provide a town, or other pertinent information, it might be worth a little bit more. Very cool photo!

Edited to add, I am not valuing the frame itself, just the photo. The frame might have some value as well. I do not know.

Alan

[Leon]

I am far from an expert but was thinking the same thing as these guys before I read their opinions. I have bought and sold some that were similar....

California Digital Newspaper Archives (which is really behind) has one newspaper reference to the Cotati team:

"The Tomales baseball team defeated the Cotati team at Cotati Sunday afternoon in the presence of a big crowd. The score was 17 to 8 in favor of the Tomales boys." (June 16, 1900, Sausalito Press) in your time frame. Searched 1890-1908

A gentleman named Walt Woolery is referenced as the "Cotati baseball manager"in the early 1900's. He also owned a pool hall/barber shop on LaPlaza Street shown here:
http://cotatihistoricalsociety.org/history-of-cotati

The historical society gives a pretty good overview of the towns history, may want to try to contact them for more information. Looks like they had a "renowned baseball team" in the 1920's (seemingly every small town did), and they built a huge, wooden racetrack for automobiles ("the same size as Indianapolis") in the 1920's. A two and half mile track in the middle of nowhere is hard to believe but.....
http://www.ci.cotati.ca.us/sections/...racetrack.html

Good luck, and GREAT PHOTO!

[batsballsbases]

Thanks Guys for all the info should have the photo this week!

[Runscott]

Al, that is a great piece. I would put a higher value on it - $300-500, due to the size (cabinet itself is probably about 9 x 12), clarity and composition, and the fact that you have info on the team and it appears to be Hispanic. If that's an original frame, it might help the value.

I would remove it since the glass is busted anyway, scan top and bottom halves and 'sew' scans together, then post pics of it both in and out of the frame.

My guess is that the age is 1905-1910, but easier to tell once you can see the entire mat, and the back of it.

[batsballsbases]

Thanks Scott I should have the piece by the end of the week. I had a feeling that it might be worth more than a hundred or so. Yes I do believe that my friend took the glass out before he shipped the piece. He didnt want to risk it being damaged. I really want to have it in my possession to see the size for myself. But he did tell me that the frame also is very nice 15/17 . I also liked the frame alot. It was the content of the picture that impressed me the most.

[perezfan]

Because of the Pillbox Hats, Lace-front Jerseys, Emboidered Cuffs and Quilted Pants, I would say pre-1900. I would guess early - mid 1890s, based on the Equipment, style of pose, ornate backdrop and overall appearance. Look at the length of the crotch area (ok, not too closely) and how low it goes... almost to the knees on the shorter guy!

Terrific piece with tremendous clarity for a photo of that vintage. Normally these are faded, out of focus, and/or washed out. This one was obviously well cared for.

[Runscott]

Clearer pics, especially of the entire mount, will help a lot. I would not be surprised at all to find out it's late 1890's.

The photo shown below was taken in 1922. You could still get pillbox hats then, but they were not common.

A little more digging on this.... The town patriarch of Cotati was a man named Dr. Thomas Stokes Page (1815-1872). He had 13 children, seven boys. In his will, Dr. Page stipulated his ranch could not be subdivided until his youngest son, William Delano (born 1867) was 25 years old. When William turned 25 the Rancho Cotate was subdivided into parcels to establish the town of Cotati in 1893.

Looking at Dr. Page's image and your photo side-by-side might help but I think the catcher bears a possible family resemblance. William Delano Page would have been 25 to 32 years old in the time frame (1893-1900). The next youngest male in the Page family, George Thomas Page would have been about 35 to 42. Awesome photo, well worth adding to any collection.

Dr. Page's story is pretty amazing....
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-...516223&id=I325

[batsballsbases]

Mark,Scott, Ty
Thanks for all the input on the photo. Ty keep digging my friend maybe it will turn out to be one of his children in the photo!

Theory based on supporting evidence: The photo is not William Delano Page (1867-1955) as he was described in his 1896 California Voter registration as 5 foot 10, Medium build, Green eyes, Light Brown hair.

As pointed out before the town of Cotati was not known as such, until October 1894. Looked up pre-1894 Page's Station Baseball but no info. So the photo is probably not before the spring of 1895.

Economic hardships brought on by the Panic of 1893 and an embezzlement scandal perpetrated by the ex-superintendent of the Cotati Land Company, William A. Chapman, probably hurt the availability of funds for a team. Chapman was arrested Nov. 1897 and convicted in March 1898 of stealing nearly $1,000 from the Page Brothers over the previous two years. He was ordered to pay restitution.

I have found two articles that reference the Cotati baseball team. Both losses to the Tomales baseball team, a 29 to 22 loss, May 20, 1899 & a 17 to 8 loss, June 16, 1900 (both articles from the Sausalito Press). The game in 1900 was played on the baseball grounds in Cotati. No batteries listed, just scores.

By the spring of 1902 talk of a six team league began in Marin County which was to include teams from:"Santa Rosa, Petaluma, San Rafael, Sausalito, Friscos, and Alameda." (April 26, 1902, Sausalito News). No mention of Cotati. The team must have been a very small town team. Not worthy of mentioning in 1902; these leagues always tried to get six teams but would settle for four so every team possible was mentioned to drum up support. There may not have been a team in Cotati after 1901 (no available records indicate one). The Petaluma Courier would be helpful, and is quoted a lot, but unfortunately not in the California Archives.

By 1900 many of the Page brothers had left Cotati for San Francisco, including William Delano & his older brother Wilfred (who co-owned Bennet & Page Grain/Wool in San Francisco).

It may still be a Page in the photo, my guess is, more than likely some relative as many of the brothers had six, seven children. With the above info, my guess is the photo is from 1898-1901.

That was a blast! Great stuff. If I run across something concrete will let you know.

[Aquifer]

the quilting on the pants is almost identical to a 1905 photo I have of a town team in Viborg, SD. Cotati is now basically a suburb of Santa Rosa, CA

[batsballsbases]

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