Not again! This is why I have a problem with PWCC!! Sorry for the rant!

[Neal]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This is why shill bidding is so destructive. PWCC can do all the promotion it likes but the shilling atmosphere negates it. Did the Grove sell for more because the PWCC winner was pushed closer to his max bid? Was it just different eyes on the sales? Was there some other factor at work? We don’t know.

I will say this for PWCC, Probstein, etc.: they are procedurally honest. If you win an auction and you pay the price you will get the card. I’ve also won a few auctions lately at low prices but had the seller mysteriously lose the card. No worries of that with PWCC.

agreed

PWCC and Probstein are two sellers that have a true auction format. Auctions cause more action/excitement than shopping does. Like many, I have received outbid notifications that caused a stir inside of me, and at times, I bid more than originally intended simply to be part of the action and not let the other bidder win lol. I am sure that is a part of the PWCC success.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Neal

agreed

PWCC and Probstein are two sellers that have a true auction format. Auctions cause more action/excitement than shopping does. Like many, I have received outbid notifications that caused a stir inside of me, and at times, I bid more than originally intended simply to be part of the action and not let the other bidder win lol. I am sure that is a part of the PWCC success.

PWCC isn't the only person who runs true auctions. I run true auctions. The Lefty Grove was a .99 cent auction at that. For an $1,100 card. That sold for $700. That got immediately flipped for $900.

[orly57]

Bobby,

I don't think it's really as complicated as you are making it. There is a reason guys send their stuff to PWCC rather than just auctioning it off themselves. Convenience is certainly part of it, but it's all about how many eyes are looking. It is the cornerstone of advertising. You are stuck on just the guy who is looking for a psa 6 cj Grover Alexander, but aren't taking into account the guy who may not be looking for that specifically, but spots it while glancing through PWCC's items. So while your auction will ONLY draw in the few guys who happened to search for a cj Grover Alexander that week, PWCC is being viewed by hundreds of collectors who may throw their hat in the ring. It's no different when you compare the prices that smaller AH's bring in versus REA or Heritage.

[packs]

It is different IF there is shilling though. No opinion from me on whether or not there is shilling going on.

[orly57]

Agreed

[T206Collector]

I have never bought an item on ebay based on the seller. I buy items on ebay based on the item and the price. And I do not think it is credible to suggest that PWCC does better because people know their brands or are even treating their auctions like an event.

Doesn't everybody have their eBay saved searches emailed to them every morning?

Doesn't everybody just place snipes on those items at the time instead of manually placing a bid like it's 1998?

It's very difficult for me to believe that "stuff" is trumped by "seller" when all of the evidence almost universally points to "stuff" trumping "seller." The current proliferation of on-line auction houses dealing with pre-war cards can only exist in a world where "stuff" is driving the value. Otherwise consignors would naturally gravitate to one or two auction houses.

Instead, I believe the anonymity of ebay bidders shields shenanigans that would otherwise be eliminated by reputable auction houses.

[bobbyw8469]

Instead, I believe the anonymity of ebay bidders shields shenanigans that would otherwise be eliminated by reputable auction houses.

As much as I want to believe this is false, I do think this is true.

[orly57]

Ok, I am stumped at how this is unclear. I will use an example: I am not specifically looking for a USC Lefty Grove, but it's a card on my list to buy if I ever find a nice one. I see that PWCC has an auction. So, I go to "view seller's other items" and scroll down the list of 1,000's of cards. Why? Because they always have a ton of cool stuff. If you don't think their auctions are an event, you are fooling yourself.

"Oh wow" I proclaim, "that's a nice Lefty Grove PSA 6! I think I shall put it on my watch list." Meanwhile, on the other side of the country, another collector does the same thing. Low and behold, he and I compete over the card and I win it for $1,120.00 because our competition drove it up. That happens with PWCC and Probstein. That DOES NOT happen with Bobfromnet54 with a feedback of 124.

As I said before, if a guy happens to be looking specifically for a USC Lefty Grove, then he will find Bobfromnet54's card and put it on his watch list. But this will only happen if he is specifically looking for that card AT THE PRECISE TIME that Bobfromnet54's auction is going on. And now, said collector will probably have less competition for the card unless someone else is looking for the precise card at the same time.

A USC Lefty Grove is a very nice card, but it's not a Goudey Ruth where dozens of people are searching for them daily. In short, all it takes at an auction is two guys who want a card. The more people who want it, the more competition. Most collectors look at PWCC's newest auctions. More eyes= more buyers= more competition= higher price sale than what Bobfromnet54 got.

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by t206collector

i have never bought an item on ebay based on the seller. I buy items on ebay based on the item and the price. And i do not think it is credible to suggest that pwcc does better because people know their brands or are even treating their auctions like an event.

Doesn't everybody have their ebay saved searches emailed to them every morning?

Doesn't everybody just place snipes on those items at the time instead of manually placing a bid like it's 1998?

It's very difficult for me to believe that "stuff" is trumped by "seller" when all of the evidence almost universally points to "stuff" trumping "seller." the current proliferation of on-line auction houses dealing with pre-war cards can only exist in a world where "stuff" is driving the value. Otherwise consignors would naturally gravitate to one or two auction houses.

Instead, i believe the anonymity of ebay bidders shields shenanigans that would otherwise be eliminated by reputable auction houses.

+10000000