Thoughts on Kaepernick & the national anthem

[Leon]

Actions have consequences. It's America. As much as I would support their (any of them) right to do what they did, I would support my right, if I were in that position, to mete out punitive consequences. We would both be within our rights. (See first sentence.)

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Carlos and Smith were almost immediately forced to leave the Olympic Village by the same Avery Brundage who had not objected to the Heil Hitler salutes at the 1936 Olympics. They doubtless suffered a great deal of ostracism for many years afterward, although from my reading they are now looked on mostly favorably.

[packs]

Leon are you at all familiar with the Tuskegee experiments? They were still being conducted when that photo was taken. There is a historical and societal history that you are ignoring when you say things like actions have consequences.

[Leon]

I double down on my comment. That being said I would have held ALL of those responsible for that experiment accountable for their actions. We have a criminal justice system.

Originally Posted by packs

Leon are you at all familiar with the Tuskegee experiments? They were still being conducted when that photo was taken. There is a historical and societal history that you are ignoring when you say things like actions have consequences.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Leon

I double down on my comment. That being said I would have held ALL of those responsible for that experiment accountable for their actions. We have a criminal justice system.

Right but they weren't held accountable at all and I would argue that they chose their subjects carefully for that very reason. Do you think that equates to an equal society?

[Leon]

The individuals authorizing those atrocities should have been held accountable, I agree 100%. However there was this..

"As part of the settlement of a class action lawsuit subsequently filed by the NAACP on behalf of study participants and their descendants, the U.S. government paid $9 million (unadjusted for inflation) and agreed to provide free medical treatment to surviving participants and to surviving family members infected as a consequence of the study."

and this is more than many injustices receive though I would have made more individuals be held accountable-

A year later on May 16, 1997, President Bill Clinton formally apologized and held a ceremony at the White House for surviving Tuskegee study participants. He said:
"What was done cannot be undone. But we can end the silence. We can stop turning our heads away. We can look at you in the eye and finally say on behalf of the American people, what the United States government did was shameful, and I am sorry ... To our African American citizens, I am sorry that your federal government orchestrated a study so clearly racist."


And bringing this full circle, I don't have a problem with any athlete expressing their views and opinions. However, I do have an issue with where and when it is done. And to those that say, well he got your attention, I say he could have gotten it elsewhere too.

Originally Posted by packs

Right but they weren't held accountable at all and I would argue that they chose their subjects carefully for that very reason. Do you think that equates to an equal society?

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Leon

Actions have consequences.

With everything that is going on (and not just referring to a black/white issue), you seriously still believe that? I'd be more inclined to say that consequences and personal responsibility are the exception to the rule these days.

[Leon]

Yes.... and unfortunately you are correct.

Originally Posted by tschock

With everything that is going on (and not just referring to a black/white issue), you seriously still believe that? I'd be more inclined to say that consequences and personal responsibility are the exception to the rule these days.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Actions have consequences. It's America. As much as I would support their (any of them) right to do what they did, I would support my right, if I were in that position, to mete out punitive consequences. We would both be within our rights. (See first sentence.)

And what of Rosa Parks, would you have punished her too?

[Leon]

Of course not. It's not the same. I would hope I would have been on her side concerning sitting on a bus.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And what of Rosa Parks, would you have punished her too?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Of course not. It's not the same. I would hope I would have been on her side concerning sitting on a bus.

No, it's not. She broke the law, they didn't.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Rosa Parks was protesting for racial equality. Kaepernick is protesting for...well, nothing. Huge difference!

My earlier question may have been overlooked. What opportunities are minorities (specifically black, since that is the topic of discussion) lacking?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Rosa Parks was protesting for racial equality. Kaepernick is protesting for...well, nothing. Huge difference!

My earlier question may have been overlooked. What opportunities are minorities (specifically black, since that is the topic of discussion) lacking?

The comparison was to Smith and Carlos at the Olympics.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I would of valued the protest higher if it came right at the height of his fame after the super bowl loss. Hes now more famous for the protest than for anything he has done on the field.

Jim Brown is a famous proponent for civil rights etc and he was equally famous for the work he did on the field.

[Leon]

Their actions are worse than hers in my eyes.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No, it's not. She broke the law, they didn't.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Their actions are worse than hers in my eyes.

I understand that, but not why.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Today, folks, today! Why are we discussing events from decades ago? What opportunities are minorities (specifically black, since that is the topic of discussion) lacking today?