Buyer Beware: CMIZ5290 board member

[Rhotchkiss]

+1. The silence is telling

[sportscardpete]

obviously being the center of attention in a post like this sucks, especially when you're used to being off center.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

obviously being the center of attention in a post like this sucks, especially when you're used to being off center.

ba dum bum! pete will be here all week folks...twice daily!

[mintacular]

Is this the same guy that sells card with qualifiers and then quotes comps without qualifers, etc.? If so, this should clue you into what kind of person this is?

[Rhotchkiss]

Pete, you are not a PRO and you better (mis)cut it out with that humor...

[MikeGarcia]

....
..and to make things even worse the writing on the back is half gibberish....


...

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Pete, you are not a PRO and you better (mis)cut it out with that humor...

As long as he doesn't become a qualifier of off-centered jokes

[cammb]

I guess I am in the minority but I read it as saying He guarantees the authenticity and will grade AS SUCH. No one can guarantee any grade.

[3-2-count]

I too had a disappointing experience with Mize years ago and vowed never to speak or deal with him again. In fact I refuse to open any of his threads (except this one )

As small as this community and hobby are its amazing that someone would behave this way so blatantly time and time again.

Reputation is everything.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by mintacular

Is this the same guy that sells card with qualifiers and then quotes comps without qualifers, etc.? If so, this should clue you into what kind of person this is?

Correct, what I never understood with this forum (and I’ve been a member for 10+ years) is that we can’t comment when a board member purposely does something like this. I guess we’re all supposed to help each other, unless it’s another board member being dishonest.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Is it interesting that Kevin hasn't commented once in this thread in his own defense?

I'll be glad to comment....For the final record, I offered a resolution to Leon and the buyer. And pertaining this card, Leon sent me an email himself today offering to buy the card, so boy this deal had to be a real rip-off didn't it!! But he managed to leave that out of the thread.. As far as this guy Tony Andrea, I don't even know who the Hell this guy is, period. And Leon, interesting that you are making these posts on this thread without one email to me other than the one offering to buy the card. I do have the email for anyone that would like to see.... Other than that, thanks for everything! Net54, I don't need you as you don't need me either. I do wish the best to the many buyers that I dealt with for over 11 years, thank you for that and happy holidays to you and your families...

[HRBAKER]

Merci

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I'll be glad to comment....For the final record, I offered a resolution to Leon and the buyer. And pertaining this card, Leon sent me an email himself today offering to buy the card, so boy this deal had to be a real rip-off didn't it!! But he managed to leave that out of the thread.. As far as this guy Tony Andrea, I don't even know who the Hell this guy is, period. And Leon, interesting that you are making these posts on this thread without one email to me other than the one offering to buy the card. I do have the email for anyone that would like to see.... Other than that, au revoir! Net54, I don't need you...

Will you be consigning yourself to an auction house?

Bill Roberts

[todeen]

I know you're all interested to see his resolution from Saturday 11/07. So here's the screenshot.

"What approximate difference could there be between a grade of an SGC A versus an SGC 1? $200 maybe? In an effort to try and do the right thing with an unintended misunderstanding, I would be willing to do that...."


After I told him I just didn't want to own an altered card last night, he sent me these responses today, 11/08.

"Is the card encapsulated?" @ 2:21 PM

"So what exactly is the difference between a grade of A or A altered? The grade of A indicates an alteration, no?" @ 2:29 PM

"I have just seen your thread on Net54....Was willing to help, I am now not going to do a DAMN thing....." @ 2:32 PM


I appreciate Leon's advice in handling this matter. I first asked Kevin for a refund and he said no. I asked Leon and two other members their opinions and all three said he misrepresented the card in his OP. They said press him for a refund. He said no a second time. I then asked Leon if I could present this matter to the Net54 community, and he said that would be fine. So then I posted my thread, and the overall sentiment is that his OP guarantee should be honored. Thanks for all your kind words.

I'm not going to cry over spilled milk, so I'm moving on. It looks like all of you enjoyed the locally produced Net54 Soap Opera. Next time, on Days of Our Lives......

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by todeen

I know you're all interested to see his resolution from Saturday 11/07. So here's the screenshot.

"What approximate difference could there be between a grade of an SGC A versus an SGC 1? $200 maybe? In an effort to try and do the right thing with an unintended misunderstanding, I would be willing to do that...."


After I told him I just didn't want to own an altered card last night, he sent me these responses today, 11/08.

"Is the card encapsulated?" @ 2:21 PM

"So what exactly is the difference between a grade of A or A altered? The grade of A indicates an alteration, no?" @ 2:29 PM

"I have just seen your thread on Net54....Was willing to help, I am now not going to do a DAMN thing....." @ 2:32 PM


I appreciate Leon's advice in handling this matter. I first asked Kevin for a refund and he said no. I asked Leon and two other members their opinions and all three said he misrepresented the card in his OP. They said press him for a refund. He said no a second time. I then asked Leon if I could present this matter to the Net54 community, and he said that would be fine. So then I posted my thread, and the overall sentiment is that his OP guarantee should be honored. Thanks for all your kind words.

I'm not going to cry over spilled milk, so I'm moving on. It looks like all of you enjoyed the locally produced Net54 Soap Opera. Next time, on Days of Our Lives......

So after everything he did nothing, what a loser.
He gave the card a grade, it came back altered, I would hope anyone would refund when that happens.

Hopefully he gets banned or at least sticks to his promise of leaving the forum.

[CobbSpikedMe]

I hope he doesn't leave the forum as he is my main source of pricing data for unaltered high grade cards.

[ullmandds]

if he leaves do my demerits leave too?

[Cliff Bowman]

He has picked up his marbles and moved elsewhere. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1423196

[atx840]

bump

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks for inquiries. Still available

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

He has picked up his marbles and moved elsewhere. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1423196

And BODA just stopped him right in his tracks! LOL!

[steve B]

I'm wondering if SGC changed the way they identify lower grade stuff.

I always checked off "don't encapsulate if it won't get a number grade"
About half the cards that got rejected 2/4? 2/3? were not rejected as alered. One was undersize, another had cuts that were too rough. They wouldn't grade them, so while being just fine, would have come back in an "A" slab, just like the one trimmed on multiple sides would have.

So do they now make the distiinction betweenauthentic but too non-standard to get a number and altered?

[Leon]

I was away from the computer this evening. He is gone. And for the record he said he told Tim he would refund him 200 dollars to make it good. I told Kevin if he didn't want to then send me the 200 and I would refund Tim for the card, getting it for a good price. That was the situation. It doesn't really matter his banishment was overdue.

Kevin says above that Tim left something out but it is actually Kevin that left out the 200 dollar refund part.

This is a small snippet of the email Kevin sent me.

I thought about the 11 years on N54 and I sent Tim an email offering a reduction of $200 to settle any misunderstandings and move on from this. Certainly the difference between an SGC A and SGC 1 should be well within this realm. This is more than fair. He has yet to reply, and I'm trying to do the right thing...

This is a cut and paste of what I said.

How about this? If you are offering a 200 dollar refund I will just have him send me the card. I will refund him the full amount. You PP FF me 200 dollars and we call it even? But the real better thing to do would be to just refund him. But there is a way out if you want it.

LL

.

[Mark17]

I have never understood why sellers won't accept returns, when there is a legitimate reason.

Guy sells a card, gets it back for the money the buyer paid him, and that puts him back where he started. Maybe in some cases the seller can make the buyer pay postage both ways, but my point is, accepting a return just puts everything back to before the transaction happened.

The seller really loses nothing.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Leon

I was away from the computer this evening. He is gone. And for the record he said he told Tim he would refund him 200 dollars to make it good. I told Kevin if he didn't want to then send me the 200 and I would refund Tim for the card, getting it for a good price. That was the situation. It doesn't really matter his banishment was overdue. This is a cut and paste of what I said.

How about this? If you are offering a 200 dollar refund I will just have him send me the card. I will refund him the full amount. You PP FF me 200 dollars and we call it even? But the real better thing to do would be to just refund him. But there is a way out if you want it.


LL

Morality floats to the top if you expect it. Thanks for running a good shop Leon.

[maddux31]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

And BODA just stopped him right in his tracks! LOL!

He has been there for a while apparently, and made fast friends with the group:

Then I guess you're a dumbass.....Worried about it?, then don't buy the card. I have more trade references on Net54 than anybody on this forum, guaranteed..As far as the going rate, this card is graded by Beckett, NOT PSA....Holy Cow, do you not get that?? Also, I posted my email, it is: kmize1999@yahoo.com I love communicating with someone that has the IQ higher than a fireant that you obviously have...

I guess he will have to amend his Net54 references line now

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1250216

Jason Carter

[bbsports]

Usually I don't respond to these threads, but I do know Kevin for years and spoke a few times to him. This should have never gone this far from the start. Kevin knows the first rule of thumb is to send either send a computer or phone scans front and back to the buyer. I do this all the time. The buyer should then know what he wants to do. Also, if the scans are questionable, the buyer will either ask for another scan or will pass on the card. As a seller of t206 cards, I get these questions all the time. A card of the caliper, will never be hard to resell to another buyer. Kevin should know to always refund the buyer in full. This in return, he will keep his good reputation instead of having it tarnished on this site. If Kevin is still angry over this matter, just don't deal with the buyer anymore, but at least your still have a strong reputation and you can still buy and sell on this site. You and I Kevin didn't always agree, but we do have a mutual respect for each other. You do have a lot of knowledge in this hobby, but this was the right thing to do. Sometimes you have to bite your tongue over issues like this and at times like this a reputation is more important than a baseball card.

[icurnmedic]

1: I see cards as " PSA Graded Authentic" for sale frequently.

2: I have had several large purchases from the Seller and never a problem.

3: Should have just refunded in the first place. No need to bicker in a place that we all should consider a safe haven to B/S/T.

Just my opine!

[bks14sr]

That’s definitely a justified refund request. This should not have been a big deal on either end imo. As a buyer, sure it’s a disappointment to not get the expected grading outcome, but there’s never a “guarantee” when it comes to receiving a numerical grade. As a seller, that grading outcome has to be considered as well, so a potential refund would be expected. Maybe just a poor choice of words or selling practice to put the guarantee on it.

I’ve had a few abrasive moments with the guy, not the biggest fan. But, it sucks to see another guy blackballed. Hopefully there’s some resolution to satisfy all. Seems like there are easy solutions for all involved in my eyes.

-Bill

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Leon

No, saying something will grade is not meaning AUT in our sphere. Period. That is my thought But i am listening. And the OP asked me about this situation and if he should post it. My answer is obvious....
I don't think we want weasley semantics on our forum. But I am listening...


.

I hate grading and am by no means an expert with any of it... That being said, even I know if you say it will grade that means a numerical number. Otherwise I say guaranteed to be Authentic. And I always accept returns as it may just actually be a collector (I know that is rare now a days) and I would want him happy with his card.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

1: I see cards as " PSA Graded Authentic" for sale frequently.

2: I have had several large purchases from the Seller and never a problem.

3: Should have just refunded in the first place. No need to bicker in a place that we all should consider a safe haven to B/S/T.

Just my opine!

I agree with this sentiment. There was zero reason to ruin his reputation over this deal, a refund should have been granted. 33 Goudey Gehrigs, even ones that grade Authentic, sell pretty easily. Someone would've taken this off Kevin's hands almost immediately.

[Throttlesteer]

It shouldn't have led to this. But Leon gave him a way out and he chose not to take it. He asked for it as far as I'm concerned.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I hate grading and am by no means an expert with any of it... That being said, even I know if you say it will grade that means a numerical number. Otherwise I say guaranteed to be Authentic. And I always accept returns as it may just actually be a collector (I know that is rare now a days) and I would want him happy with his card.

Does this policy only apply to raw cards, but not to cards called out on blowout as altered?

[LEHR]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I'll be glad to comment....For the final record, I offered a resolution to Leon and the buyer. And pertaining this card, Leon sent me an email himself today offering to buy the card, so boy this deal had to be a real rip-off didn't it!! But he managed to leave that out of the thread.. As far as this guy Tony Andrea, I don't even know who the Hell this guy is, period. And Leon, interesting that you are making these posts on this thread without one email to me other than the one offering to buy the card. I do have the email for anyone that would like to see.... Other than that, thanks for everything! Net54, I don't need you as you don't need me either. I do wish the best to the many buyers that I dealt with for over 11 years, thank you for that and happy holidays to you and your families...

This guy seems like a real gem to deal with.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by LEHR

This guy seems like a real gem to deal with.

His abrasiveness was never ending. For those who claim to of had a good experience with him there were many more who did not.

Good riddance!

[ullmandds]

I tried!!!! I'd like my demerits changed to stars please!!!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Does this policy only apply to raw cards, but not to cards called out on blowout as altered?

There are obviously exceptions to every rule.

[Gorditadogg]

Leon, thanks for taking care of this board. I know it's not easy trying to manage all of us but I appreciate what you have done to make Net54 what it is.

I joined for the BST, but started reading the other forums and I am amazed by the knowledge and helpfulness of the members here. I have learned so much and am very happy I found this place.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Joe Hunter]

"Authenticity" and "Grade" are two completely different concepts. Authenticity references whether the card is real or not, while grade is an indicator of its relative condition. There can be no such thing as an "authentic grade", even though you do see that phrase used from time to time. The buyer has every expectation of receiving a refund in this situation, in my opinion.

[BRoberts]

For those posting that they are surprised Kevin "would ruin his reputation over this," if you think *this* incident ruins his reputation, you've not been paying attention.

Bill Roberts

[perezfan]

1933 Gehrig still available.

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

Am I the only one that doesn't like the look of this card? It is not a set I've ever given much attention to, but based solely on the above picture would have walked away. As far as the transaction - we are a community and sometimes bs has to be called out for buyer and/or seller conduct. This is the jury. Pretty overwhelming that a refund should be given.

After looking at the card on a large screen in my office I ruled out some initial concerns that I had. The image appeared to have discoloration and wear patterns that are consistent with reproductions but appears better when viewed at 42 inches Also, I don't believe Kevin would intentionally sell a reproduction(and skilled at identifying them) so my apologies to him for my above statement. I'll also add, in the spirit of removing divisiveness, that Kevin and I had a disagreement years ago and what I found was our communication turned positive through conversation. Selling miscut cards and discounting/bumping them is not a big deal to me. Having a sales pitch doesn't really bother me either. Kevin has had some pretty beautiful cards that aside from their cut presented extremely well. So, I'm being positive here and suggesting the weight and pull of the community can drive a more positive outcome in the future. Might he have changed his tune with honoring his policy if he didn't feel called out publicly? I've been around card dealers since the early eighties and though some are wonderful, there is a hefty percentage of quirky, stubborn and even outright rude ones too. I would say we are not necessarily better with him gone and we don't know what impact being gone has on his lively hood. Maybe none, but he clearly generates some income from cards. I say give him another chance to make this right according to the communities standards, review his listing style and purchase agreement and be welcomed back for another shot.

edited to ad: GO IRISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cardsagain74]

There are two sometimes seen ways of "marketing" some cards in a listing that are, at minimum, a misrepresentation (and could even be considered fraudulent advertising):

- Quoting the nr-mt BV of a low grade card (in that manner which infers that the card is worth that much)

- Omitting a qualifier from the heading of a listing and/or directly comparing pops and prices of the qualifier card to non-qualifier ones

As others have mentioned, this seller has repeatedly done some of the latter. Regardless of the situation with the Gehrig card, I think any community is better off without that kind of participant.

[Republicaninmass]

Just go and check the last sales of a few of them. Therein lies your answer. I'm all for making a fair profit on a card, but some are just an insult to one's intelligence

[cammb]

Where is the SGC screenshot that the OP mentions?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

There are two sometimes seen ways of "marketing" some cards in a listing that are, at minimum, a misrepresentation (and could even be considered fraudulent advertising):

- Quoting the nr-mt BV of a low grade card (in that manner which infers that the card is worth that much)

- Omitting a qualifier from the heading of a listing and/or directly comparing pops and prices of the qualifier card to non-qualifier ones

As others have mentioned, this seller has repeatedly done some of the latter. Regardless of the situation with the Gehrig card, I think any community is better off without that kind of participant.

LOL, we have one of those sellers on here. They acted like they were new to collecting so I PMed them a few times about how bad listing like that looked. Turns out in reality they own or at least owned a card shop because the PP account they paid me with for some cards was from a card shop.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

There are two sometimes seen ways of "marketing" some cards in a listing that are, at minimum, a misrepresentation (and could even be considered fraudulent advertising):

- Quoting the nr-mt BV of a low grade card (in that manner which infers that the card is worth that much)

- Omitting a qualifier from the heading of a listing and/or directly comparing pops and prices of the qualifier card to non-qualifier ones

As others have mentioned, this seller has repeatedly done some of the latter. Regardless of the situation with the Gehrig card, I think any community is better off without that kind of participant.

Of all the things a seller does that bother me, these two don't even break the top 10.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by cammb

Where is the SGC screenshot that the OP mentions?

Going to pick it up from USPS today 11/09. USPS took my signed delivery slip on Saturday that I left in my mailbox but didn't deliver said package. I promise I will post a picture when the card is in my hand.

Some of the posters in this thread state they have had smooth transactions with Kevin. I agree, my initial purchase went flawless. I paid, he delivered quickly. Very professional. It just became a different story when I asked for a refund. To me it seemed like a Target purchase: buy a vacuum, vacuum isn't what you expected, you return it with the receipt and get your money back. He was a little upset over the TPG turn-around time, I get that. But turn-around time was not in my control. After he refused refund the first time, I told him this wasn't a deal to turn into Custer's Last Stand. But he must have his reasoning, which he never made clear to either me or Leon.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

For those posting that they are surprised Kevin "would ruin his reputation over this," if you think *this* incident ruins his reputation, you've not been paying attention.

Bill Roberts

Maybe, but I guarantee many of us who were unaware are in the know now.

[ramram]

Four and one half years of B/S/T bumps of the Wagner portrait coming to an end.

Rob M

P.S. Nice bst post Paul G. Just under the wire, lol.