Not sure if this has been posted..Mastro in the Chicago Tribune

[zork1974]

Originally Posted by Anthony K.

I see there is still trouble surrounding Mastro in this hobby.

Still upset over the shady doings and business practices between them and PSA in the 90's (which I am sure still go on today).

So -- should I be worried about purchasing PSA graded cards?

[turtleguy64]

Well,consider this story .It was reported in the form of a letter to the editor of Sports Collector's Digest about 4 years ago.Writer said that he sent a large group of turn of the century cards to PSA fror grading.They were all returned as reproductions.He turned around and forwarded this group to the big auctionhouse at that time(take a guess-he wouldn't name them).Voila! Cards were put in their auction after being graded by PSA.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There are certainly many legitimate criticisms of PSA but I don't believe they would intentionally slab a bunch of reprints, even if great guys were involved.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There are certainly many legitimate criticisms of PSA but I don't believe they would intentionally slab a bunch of reprints, even if great guys were involved.

Why not, Peter? Are they competent?


Bill

[Peter_Spaeth]

I said "intentionally." The implication of the post was that they knowingly slabbed reprints as a favor to Mastro. I don't believe it.

[turtleguy64]

That letter writer to SCD did not mention the name of the auctionhouse which received his twice graded cards.Mastronet was not named.That should be clear.
Here is an update on my until now unpaid consignment $ from that last Mastro Feb. auction.Say what you will about Doug Allen ,and he has been getting the brunt of the Mastro association criticism,but he "manned up" and called me on the phone last night to explain the entire Mastronet situation and how it applied to Legendary.I personally returned to him the current Legendary Aug. catalogue with my personal note relating my until now great relationship with both companies, my waiting period for the $.He spoke to me for a good 35 minutes covering the entire history of the dissolvement of Mastronet,shilling accusations,what looks to me like a fishing expedition by the FBI, and start up of Legendary.The guy has always been straight with me .To tell you truth I KNEW he would call after getting my letter.He is that type of stand up guy.He has taken some shots , a lot unfair.Is it guilt by association?We cannot say for sure but I give him props for calling me and clearing the air.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

That letter writer to SCD did not mention the name of the auctionhouse which received his twice graded cards.Mastronet was not named.That should be clear.
Here is an update on my until now unpaid consignment $ from that last Mastro Feb. auction.Say what you will about Doug Allen ,and he has been getting the brunt of the Mastro association criticism,but he "manned up" and called me on the phone last night to explain the entire Mastronet situation and how it applied to Legendary.I personally returned to him the current Legendary Aug. catalogue with my personal note relating my until now great relationship with both companies, my waiting period for the $.He spoke to me for a good 35 minutes covering the entire history of the dissolvement of Mastronet,shilling accusations,what looks to me like a fishing expedition by the FBI, and start up of Legendary.The guy has always been straight with me .To tell you truth I KNEW he would call after getting my letter.He is that type of stand up guy.He has taken some shots , a lot unfair.Is it guilt by association?We cannot say for sure but I give him props for calling me and clearing the air.

Did you get your $?

[turtleguy64]

No $ as yet but my conversation with Doug Allen was just Monday evening .As Andy Dufrene said in Shawshank Redemption,"You 've got to have hope."

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

That letter writer to SCD did not mention the name of the auctionhouse which received his twice graded cards.Mastronet was not named.That should be clear.
Here is an update on my until now unpaid consignment $ from that last Mastro Feb. auction.Say what you will about Doug Allen ,and he has been getting the brunt of the Mastro association criticism,but he "manned up" and called me on the phone last night to explain the entire Mastronet situation and how it applied to Legendary.I personally returned to him the current Legendary Aug. catalogue with my personal note relating my until now great relationship with both companies, my waiting period for the $.He spoke to me for a good 35 minutes covering the entire history of the dissolvement of Mastronet,shilling accusations,what looks to me like a fishing expedition by the FBI, and start up of Legendary.The guy has always been straight with me .To tell you truth I KNEW he would call after getting my letter.He is that type of stand up guy.He has taken some shots , a lot unfair.Is it guilt by association?We cannot say for sure but I give him props for calling me and clearing the air.

Good thing for Doug that his statements were not under oath and subject to penalties of perjury.

[calvindog]

Did his nose at least grow during the conversation?

[turtleguy64]

We are a country all about 2nd chances,no?Ya gotta have faith and the hope that people will in the end do the right thing.Witness the Michael Vick situation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So the President of Mastro justified to you why you haven't been paid for a consignment to a February auction, and you are giving him credit for being forthright?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

No $ as yet but my conversation with Doug Allen was just Monday evening .As Andy Dufrene said in Shawshank Redemption,"You 've got to have hope."

Too bad you can't use "hope" to pay the mortgage or utility bills!



Edited to add: Will he issue you a "hope" credit to be used in his next auction?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

We are a country all about 2nd chances,no?Ya gotta have faith and the hope that people will in the end do the right thing.Witness the Michael Vick situation.

Problem with your comment is that Mike Vick accepted responsibility for his actions, plead guilty and did time for his crimes. Doug Allen still maintains he's the victim of a card-hating government hell-bent on destroying the cardboard dreams of many a men.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If Legendary really BOUGHT Mastro's assets for fair value, and it wasn't a shell game, why can't Mastro use THAT money to pay consignors?

[Sean_C]

I wonder what kind of salary Doug is making as the president of Mastro (or whatever that company is named now) to go along with his salary as president of Legendary.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If Legendary really BOUGHT Mastro's assets for fair value, and it wasn't a shell game, why can't Mastro use THAT money to pay consignors?

You are actually asking him to do the honorable thing? You should know better than that .

[daviddbreadman]

NM

[turtleguy64]

Just the negative reactions I expected.Understandable,perhaps justified, but I kind of doubt that Doug Allen was hoping for me to post a favorable thread based on his explanation of the demise of Mastro and the present quagmire.I am not one of the big honcho bidders on Mastro or Legendary.I am mainly a consignor. Why would he take the time for an indepth explanation with a little fish in the pond?I don't have the time to fully lay out for all of you every part of his conversation with me.Suffice to say ,there are many factors that contributed to the mess at the end for Mastronet and the banking industry played a big part with Silk,Ltmd ,the prime owner.Bottomline ,the only way for Legendary to get some street cred would be to get every consignor his $ from the ill fated Mastro Feb. auction.It is that simple.

[birdman42]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If Legendary really BOUGHT Mastro's assets for fair value, and it wasn't a shell game, why can't Mastro use THAT money to pay consignors?

Peter,

I've wondered that myself. If Legendary bought all of Mastro's assets, that would include their accounts receivable. So nobody owes Mastro any money; it's all owed to Legendary. And Mastro either had the cash to pay out, and they should do so, or they don't have enough cash, and they're hoping some people go away that they can pay the ones left.

No dog in this fight.

Bill

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

the only way for Legendary to get some street cred would be to get every consignor his $ from the ill fated Mastro Feb. auction.It is that simple.

Have you not heard? They aren't even paying consignors for their April Legendary auction. How can that be? They've assumed none of Mastro's debt.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by birdman42

Peter,

I've wondered that myself. If Legendary bought all of Mastro's assets, that would include their accounts receivable. So nobody owes Mastro any money; it's all owed to Legendary. And Mastro either had the cash to pay out, and they should do so, or they don't have enough cash, and they're hoping some people go away that they can pay the ones left.

No dog in this fight.

Bill

Interesting point, but apparently Legendary did not acquire that receivable, as the suit against Dave Forman was filed by Ketap (new name for Mastro), not by Legendary.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

... I am not one of the big honcho bidders on Mastro or Legendary.I am mainly a consignor. Why would he take the time for an indepth explanation with a little fish in the pond?

As has been mentioned here many times before, he needs the consignors more than he needs the bidders. Those in the consignor pool have many other options. Those in the bidder pool are: a) addicted to cards and b) willing to go where ever the good lots are.

He took the time with you because he needs you more than he needs me (mainly a bidder).

The easiest way for him to keep you (and the other consignors) would be to pay up. For a variety of reasons, he can't. So he hopes for one of two outcomes from his discussion. Best case, you buy it completely and continue to wait for payment and continue to consign in the meantime. Next best case, maybe you're wary. Don't consign anything new, but sit silently and patiently while you wait for your money.

The worst case, for him, would be if you were loud, and public in your dissatisfaction with not getting your money. If you went to the media, the message boards, and/or the court system, you could make it tougher for him to get other consignments.

Some have taken that road. Some of them have been paid. You have chosen not to, so expect to wait some more.

[Boomer]

Turtleguy
I would love to hear Doug Allen's explanation of what happened at Mastro.
Thanks
Mike

[turtleguy64]

Mike,I'll try to put it for you in a nutshell as related to me by him and I sincerely hope I get it right.If I don't,then I owe someone an apology:company purchasing Mastronet ran into difficulties and had to cut loose of Mastronet as an asset,bank note came due (a very,very large one).Banks note had to be honored.Let me interject here-a very good friend with connections in Mastronet warned me not to consign anything else to them as these difficulties were coming to fruition.Next point,the Dave Forman refusal to pay the 400 thou on items he won from that Feb. auction really created pressure on Mastronet to pay it's consignors.Had he paid,every single consignor would have gotten their money and we are not even discussing any of this today.Okay,Mike,I am out of steam but that is the crux of my conversation with Doug.Believe what you will,to me it became a perfect storm and the economy being what it was in Feb. probably didn't help,especially with attempts to borrow to try and resolve all the $ problems.But that's my theory,not someone else's theory.

[Boomer]

Thank you

[turtleguy64]

Glad to help.David

[Kenny Cole]

So let me get this right: you got stiffed completely on your consignment. You have been paid nothing. If you link on Mastro's website, you get Legendary. If you read the Legendary puffery, it is almost identical to that of Mastro, with a name change. Most of the high-ups in Mastro (perhaps principals, perhaps not) are now at Legendary. However, all is good because you now have now received an explanation about why you have been screwed and are OK with that? Wow.

Do you have any expensive cards you can consign with me?

[Sean_C]

The only consignors that should not have been paid should have been the ones who were unfortunately involved with the contended lots with Forman, or other non-paying bidders. End of story. Anything else is a pathetic attempt to excuse poor business practices.

You ship consignors items before getting paid for them? Then you are responsible for them. If you can't get the items back, you pay the consignors their $, and pursue your legal options against the person (has Forman been served yet, or has that dog and pony show continued?).

You borrow too much $ and have problems paying the bank back? Then you suck as an executive and should be replaced.

Your backers have $ problems? Then why the hell would you allow them to be involved in your new enterprise?

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

Mike,I'll try to put it for you in a nutshell as related to me by him and I sincerely hope I get it right.If I don't,then I owe someone an apology:company purchasing Mastronet ran into difficulties and had to cut loose of Mastronet as an asset,bank note came due (a very,very large one).Banks note had to be honored.Let me interject here-a very good friend with connections in Mastronet warned me not to consign anything else to them as these difficulties were coming to fruition.Next point,the Dave Forman refusal to pay the 400 thou on items he won from that Feb. auction really created pressure on Mastronet to pay it's consignors.Had he paid,every single consignor would have gotten their money and we are not even discussing any of this today.Okay,Mike,I am out of steam but that is the crux of my conversation with Doug.Believe what you will,to me it became a perfect storm and the economy being what it was in Feb. probably didn't help,especially with attempts to borrow to try and resolve all the $ problems.But that's my theory,not someone else's theory.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Sean_C

...(has Forman been served yet, or has that dog and pony show continued?).

Good question!!! I don't know the answer, but think of it this way, once Forman has been served, the plaintiff is open to discovery motions and depositions. Do you think they really want that, or do they hope bad publicity would force payment?

[jmk59]

I think I got it. They used proceeds from the sale of consigned goods to pay their other obligations instead of the consignor while also sending out consigned goods without payment. I don't understand how this explanation somehow makes it all okay.

And I don't know Doug at all, but it seems highly and obviously manipulative on his part to give someone the talking point (that predictably ended up being posted here) that this is really all about Dave Forman. Too obvious, and it looks like a very very clumsy attempt to deflect attention that is properly directed at Mastro for mishandling the cards.

J

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

So let me get this right: you got stiffed completely on your consignment. You have been paid nothing. If you link on Mastro's website, you get Legendary. If you read the Legendary puffery, it is almost identical to that of Mastro, with a name change. Most of the high-ups in Mastro (perhaps principals, perhaps not) are now at Legendary. However, all is good because you now have now received an explanation about why you have been screwed and are OK with that? Wow.

Do you have any expensive cards you can consign with me?

Kenny, all that is of secondary importance because Doug is a great guy. And to your factual recitation, you can add that according to the Illinois Secretary of State Doug is still president of Mastro, and that Silk Road's website describing its portfolio companies simply changed Mastro to Legendary keeping the exact description.

[botn]

Gee if all unpaid consignors are as...understanding as turtleguy64, Doug, despite not being responsible for those unpaid consignors because they are Mastro's burden, should sleep better at night.

Doug certainly seems to be the spokesperson for Mastro, at the very least, based on the way this article was written.

From the NY Daily News blog linked in the first post.

Allen said he no longer has any responsibilities at Mastro, which shut down because of financial problems. The first priority, he said, was to pay back money it owed to the bank. After that, Mastro intended to pay Dodaro and all other consignors, he said.

"They're not filing bankruptcy. They're not insolvent," Allen said. "They just have liquidity issues."

He said he remains in contact with the folks at Mastro, but Legendary Auctions is not responsible for Mastro's debts. Legendary, he said, is a completely separate entity.

"It's not a shell game where we said, 'Let's close this company and start a new one,' " Allen said. "It's not that."

[Peter_Spaeth]

"Allen said he no longer has any responsibilities at Mastro"

Other than being President?

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"Allen said he no longer has any responsibilities at Mastro"

Other than being President?

Yeah but it looks so darn good on a resume.

[turtleguy64]

For those of you still following my misadventures with Mastro/Legendary and being an unpaid consignor,it's been 6 days since I spoke with Doug and after the payment promise ,still no dough.Have I been duped into believing in the Tooth Fairy?Don't know but I 'll keep looking under my pillow.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

For those of you still following my misadventures with Mastro/Legendary and being an unpaid consignor,it's been 6 days since I spoke with Doug and after the payment promise ,still no dough.Have I been duped into believing in the Tooth Fairy?Don't know but I 'll keep looking under my pillow.

Did he give you a timeframe on being paid?

[turtleguy64]

No,Leon,but I still look on the bright side after my talk with Doug.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I bet Bob Gibson will get paid on time.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

No,Leon,but I still look on the bright side after my talk with Doug.

Don't know why I immediately thought of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

[vintagechris]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I bet Bob Gibson will get paid on time.

You can count on it!

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I bet Bob Gibson will get paid on time.

If he doesn't. smart money says Gibbie drills Doug in the ribs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

If he doesn't. smart money says Gibbie drills Doug in the ribs.

Gee Bob (gasp) why did you do that, I am a great guy!!

[slantycouch]

I've stayed out of this conversation, but (as I'm sure many of you did) receive an e-mail last night informing me that "Legendaey" (sic) Auctions Extends Bidding".

For some reason the lack of proofreading made me chuckle.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by slantycouch

I've stayed out of this conversation, but (as I'm sure many of you did) receive an e-mail last night informing me that "Legendaey" (sic) Auctions Extends Bidding".

For some reason the lack of proofreading made me chuckle.

They must be incredibly short-handed - aside from all the spelling errors, they are making some really bad mistakes with the listings as well. e.g. They had a lot last night with 7 assorted odds and ends and one of the "odds" was an M116 McQuillan Cincinnati variation that they completely failed to identify. It should have been in its own lot and identified as the rare variation; they just missed it altogether.

[barrysloate]

I saw that lot Matt, and I in fact was the underbidder. They didn't even list the team in the description. Sounds like another unhappy consignor.

They also left out some significant information on a group of 19th century cabinet photos. Who's researching this stuff?

I never got any bid confirmations, nor outbid notices, on any of my lots last night. When I woke this morning I still hadn't received a single email.

[Mr. Mitt]

If they want to regain footing in the hobby/business, they also need to address their servers and actual auction program. Several times last night, the process of bidding took in excess of five minutes for me. That's unacceptable. I became so frustrated that I simply stopped bidding. Consigners should know there were bidders interested in paying more for their items but backed off because of technical issues.

Also, did anyone else notice that when the extended bidding period began, there were several times when the time remaining showed well over a day instead of under 30 minutes? Sloppy technology which should be upgraded immediately.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mitt

If they want to regain footing in the hobby/business, they also need to address their servers and actual auction program. Several times last night, the process of bidding took in excess of five minutes for me. That's unacceptable. I became so frustrated that I simply stopped bidding. Consigners should know there were bidders interested in paying more for their items but backed off because of technical issues.

Also, did anyone else notice that when the extended bidding period began, there were several times when the time remaining showed well over a day instead of under 30 minutes? Sloppy technology which should be upgraded immediately.

There are 2 days of closing to the auction. That probably accounts for the "over a day" left scenario.

I went to bid last night, again, and it literally took 10 minutes for me to get on the site...as I stared at the screen I was roaming around the board and other places waiting. I have a very high speed connection. By the time I got to the auction site, after waiting for what seemed like eternity, the auction lot I really wanted had closed. That sucked.....Someone got a great deal on the card I really wanted. It's my fault but they really need to get another squirrel running around a wheel....Their servers absolutely sucked again.....Just calling it like I see it.....

[Orioles1954]

Jerry (?)

I can't speak to their servers, but it is a two-day auction. Perhaps it showed 1+ days because you were looking at "day 2" auctions?

James

[rhettyeakley]

Matt & Barry, I saw both of the auction lots you are describing. I ended up winning the McQuillen lot, and we were hoping we would be able to pick up the Topeka cabinet at a VERY reasonable price, but alas the Topeka was obviously seen by a few of the Old Judge guys so it took off into the wee hours of the morning.

I wouldn't have even noticed the McQuillen had it not included two Zeenut cards in the lot, the lot was kinda high rather earlier this week for what it was and that is when I took a closer look at the cards wondering what I was missing, and saw the "Cincinnati" team for McQuillen.

-Rhett