ALERT: NEW EBAY SCAM

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Posted By: Art Martineau 

ALERT: NEW EBAY SCAM

I have not posted on this new bulletin board, but felt this was very important to my fellow Ebay bidders and vintage collectors.

Recently a relatively new Ebay seller appeared. This seller has 2 different seller ID's:

att2706@altavista.com
tootemcon@altavista.com

Several of the recent auctions featured some very nice "T" cards, including a T207, T206, and T205.
All of the auctions have the same description, stating the cards are reprints and "remember to collect for the enjoyment of the hobby."
Well, upon further examination of the scans, some of the cards pictured are Dover reprints, but all of the "T" cards pictured are REAL!

Last week the seller sold a T207 Bauman, Detroit card. The card pictured was real:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1058210143

Last nite, I was the winning bidder on a T206 Butler, Rochester. The card pictured was real:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1060675910

Also last nite was an auction for a T205 Barger. The card pictured was real:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1060683453

After winning my auction for the T206 Butler ($10), I emailed the seller and received the mailing address. It was a P.O. Box, which seemed odd to me. I also inquired if the seller might have some other "baseball cigarette" cards available. He responded with a link to another current Ebay auction for a T205 Mathewson (The card pictured is REAL):

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1061379182

Well, after thinking about this, I decided to investigate. It seemed very odd that the seller would have just one T205, one T206, and one T207. And they all were players whose last name began with "B". Since the T206 Butler I won was pretty distinctive in the printing process (the green stage is just offset enough to show some of the blue stage underneath at the shoulder and neck), I checked out the scans of the Burdick collection at the Library of Congress online:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/bbhtml/bbcardsSets1.html

Well, its the EXACT same card.

So, then I went to the T207 Bauman at the Library of Congress:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/bbhtml/bbcardsSets1.html

The EXACT same card, even with the "B" in pencil on the back!!

Beginning to see a disturbing trend.

I have sent a copy of this to Ebay and also contacted Scott Brockelman who purchased the T207 Bauman last week.
If anyone knows any current bidders on the T205 Mathewson auction, please advise them that this is a scam.

I will keep this bulletin board posted on Ebays response and actions.
Art Martineau

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Posted By: scott brockelman

he just made a huge mistake if so. i live 15 minutes from him, local postal authorities, local police dept, easy to shut him down. will let you know how it goes.

scott

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Posted By: runscott

This is the same thing that's been going on on ebay for ages - people like BTuttle make reprint cards from other people's scans (in this case, Library of Congress), then sell them on ebay as "old reprints". If he has advertised it as a reprint, I don't think ebay will do a damned thing about it.

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Posted By: Marc S.

I guess this is an example where checking the feedback of a seller is very important. He has obviously received at least two separate complaints in the past for doing the same thing.

As for the pictures, I think that he is probably violating something or other re: the Library of Congress. But I think that it is additionally a violation to be showing a picture of something different than what you are selling. Thanks for the heads-up, Art. A very unfortunate circumstance.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

...for the weasel to print an LOC scan and glue it to cardboard? I've also noticed that someone occasionally makes prints from the LOC scans and sells them on ebay. The difference here is that Scott and Art thought they had found real cards listed as reprints, when in fact they will probably be shipped pictures of real cards glued to cardboard (reprint or forgery?).

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Posted By: Brian Daniels

Than fold the card in half and chew it in front of him! He will return the money to you are and Art and stop displaying photos of cards ( authentic ) he is not actually selling! The poor guy probably needs a job.......in prison.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

well, it took one email to convince him he was busted, he immeadiately offered a refund. i also explained the delicate nature of his predicament with the postal people and the area police. i talked to the postal people who have directed me to the local postal inspector and tommorow i show him the evidence. i advised him to cease any auctions but i doubt he will. i intend to follow up with the authorities even after i get my money back, he claims he did not take the scans from the federal site, but bought them already made up at an area flea market like they were, which is possible, the crude copy i received would have fooled many novices and was good enough from 2 feet away, it may have been the card in the scan. at any rate his ebay days are numbered.

scott

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Posted By: runscott

...

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Posted By: leon

Hey Scott,
Let me know if you need any back up. If he is 15 minutes from you he might be closer to me. regards..

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Posted By: MW

Scott & Art –

Here is some more ammunition:

It is against eBay rules to use an image from another source or website without permission. I agree that the image of the T207 Bauman exactly matches that from another site and quite likely, it was used without proper consent. To have the item removed from eBay, a Notice of Description Infringement needs to be filed with eBay Community Watch (email address: userIP@ebay.com). I have made a copy of this form available at the following URL:

http://www.bmwcards.com/chatboard/NODI.htm

This form needs to be copied and pasted to an email and then filled out. Or, you can obtain a copy of this form by emailing eBay at Safeharbor@ebay.com.

Another viable argument against such a practice is to file a complaint with eBay Rules & Safety Support. An online form for this is available at: http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-RS.html

The topic, subtopic and issue I would select are: Questionable Content on eBay --> Listing Violations – Proper format, content and categorization --> Improper Category Listing – Seller places listing in improper category: (pictured below)

Since either of the two involved sellers are not actually offering real cards, it is improper to list 1980s or 1990s reprints in a category for pre-1950 Baseball cards as both sellers have done. Obviously, some eBay sellers list items in the wrong category for marketing purposes (i.e., football cards in a baseball card category), but to list newer, reprinted cards using a realistic image in a pre-1950 Baseball category is CLEARLY DECEPTIVE and has some indications of fraud.

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Posted By: David

I understand and accept the stealing images argument, but each of the cards was clearly called a reprint. I mean this with all due respect, but, if a card is listed as a reprint, I originarilly don't bid on it as if it's authentic.

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Posted By: MW

David,

That is true. If the seller writes the word "reprint" assume the card is not an original. Even cards that may look original are easy to produce. With the imaging technology that currently exists, it is vitually impossible to tell whether a "card" is real at a screen resolution of 72 dpi.

It's a sad commentary about Internet auctions, but one should sometimes read the text and ignore the image.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

the reasons i bid on the card were desperation for a t207 bauman and the fact that he had 2 obvious mantle reprints listed as such, my thinking was he just cut and pasted the auction description without changing it, also the card appeared real and i further thought that because it was a glossy coated t207 and he appeared to be a new lister he might actually not have know the difference. in short, i knew i might be had, but thought it worth the risk. as it turned out, i received a crudely made copy not even a reprint. at this point he is very adamant about returning my money.

scott

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Posted By: scott brockelman

now the seller (tootemcon@altavista.net) of the above items is bidding on one of my items. it's a t210 jackson , richmond. maybe he thinks it's JOE JACKSON!. or he's looking to stiff me for the $9.99. let's take a vote. do i cancel his bid? or not?

we might as well play with him a bit.

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Posted By: runscott

that's an easy vote. I would also permanently cancel any of his ebay handles from ever bidding on your items.

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Posted By: leon

Get him to meet us at the Texas Ranger Carnival Feb 2-3 and we can kick his a**......regards

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Posted By: Tom

shame the cancellation wouldn't send a little electronic shockwave and shock his A$$, huh?

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Posted By: MW

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Posted By: Plastic Dog

My guess he is just bidding to stiff you, and then leave negative feedback.

But who knows.

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Posted By: Art M.

From: eBay Customer Support <rswebform@eBay.com>

We have reviewed the auctions you have brought to our attention, 1061379182 1060675910 1060683453 1058210143, and taken appropriate action. We would also like to explain eBay's policy with respect to
reports like yours. eBay is not in a position to make judgments about the authenticity or authorized nature of auction items, except in the most extreme circumstances. This may mean that we cannot remove the items about which you contacted us.

In some cases, we refer the information to the owner of the rights (copyright, trademark, etc.) involved, if we know who they are and how to contact them. Although you may be extremely knowledgeable about
these types of items, we often cannot remove items upon the representations of third parties whose credentials we cannot verify, unless of course the alleged infringement is obvious on its face.

That is why we strongly urge you to notify the rights holder of the suspected infringement and encourage them to join our Verified Rights Owners (VeRO) Program. This program enables them to request the ending of allegedly infringing auctions.

Thank you so much for your participation in the eBay Community!

Regards,

Thad
eBay Community Watch

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Posted By: warshawlaw

go F+++ yourself, you busy-body. Can't you see you are interfering with our God-given right to earn a profit? Who do you think you are, Arthur Andersen (ok, bad example).

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Posted By: MW

I still think there's a good argument to be made about these items being listed in the wrong category (they are NOT Pre-1950s baseball). It could also be argued that the listing titles are misleading or inappropriate. Just go to the link and fill out the form I have shown above. It takes 3 minutes.

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

after powerin down a few Crown Royales'???
Leon, be careful my friend,you may end up on " COPS"
I notice lots of the filming of this show is done in your tumbleweed neck of the woods!

regards to you!!!

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Posted By: BcD

Your over that stuff remember???

Your a lover not a fighter! That's why your bored and want to rumble in the Texas jungle! Easy boy! Your daughter may be a watchin you!

regards to Broadway and Texas!

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Posted By: BcD

and Mr. Paste & Copy! You should practice law.