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  #21  
Old 07-13-2007, 11:07 AM
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Default Red Cobb - 26 diff backs....your favorite T206 Cobb is ?

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BRIAN W and SCOT R

Matty is my best guess, as the subject that will approach having as many backs as Cobb. He was more
popular in the New York scene than any other ballplayer. His won-lost (89-26) record for the T206 plan-
ning years (1908-10) was amazing. Actually, I'm surprised the T206 guys didn't print a 4th pose of him.

While I'll agree that the card of Chase (dark cap) is, as ubiquitous (neat adjective, Scot) as the red Cobb,
this Chase has a lot of catching up to do.

And Scot, you deserve the credit for my Sovereign 460 Matty and Chance, as you 1st found them for me.

Thanks,
TED Z

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  #22  
Old 07-13-2007, 08:59 PM
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Default Red Cobb - 26 diff backs....your favorite T206 Cobb is ?

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

You guys motivated me to do some added research on the 6 super-prints. Here are the revised (upward) number
of diff. backs for each of these subjects......

Diff backs
________

26............Cobb (red)
20............Mathewson (dark cap)
20............Chance (portrait-yellow)
19............Chase (portrait-blue)
19............Chase (dark cap)
18............Evers (bat-yellow sky)


Regarding Matty....missing from his #s are, DRUM, LENOX, and Red HINDU. These three backs are found among
the other 5 super-prints; therefore, there is a high probability that Matty will be found with these. That would
raise his number of backs up to 23....very close to Cobb's 26.

Also, Broad Leaf 350 is a possibility....but, the only super-print I know of with the BL 350 back is Chase (blue).
And, this I can vouch for since I have it.

SCOT

Speaking about Cobb.....upon your suggestion, I added the American Beauty 460 back to Cobb's list. Now, I'd
like to ask you why....when none of the super-prints have been confirmed with this back ?

TED Z

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  #23  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:04 PM
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Default Red Cobb - 26 diff backs....your favorite T206 Cobb is ?

Posted By: Scot Reader


Ted,

I have no proof that any of the six superprints is extant with AB460. My argument for their existence is simply one of symmetry: These six are the only T206 subjects that can be found with BOTH Sovereign 350 and 460 and with BOTH Cycle 350 and 460--so why not with BOTH American Beauty 350 and 460? On the other hand, American Beauty, while difficult, is not exceedingly rare--so maybe we would have seen at least one of these six with AB 460 by now if they indeed existed.

Scot

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  #24  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:19 PM
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Default Red Cobb - 26 diff backs....your favorite T206 Cobb is ?

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Correct me if I am wrong on this.....American Beauty 350, Cycle 350 & 460, and Sovereign 350 & 460 are all Factory 25.
Am Bty 460 is Fac 42....and there in lies the difference.

Over the years I've tried to collect Am Bty backs as the Green colored backs have always appealed to me; and, I don't
recall seeing any of the six S-S with AB 460 backs.

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  #25  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:41 PM
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Default Red Cobb - 26 diff backs....your favorite T206 Cobb is ?

Posted By: Scot Reader


Ted,

Interesting observation.

I draw an analogy based on series and you show it is imperfect based on factories.

Touche.

I will note, however, that all six superprints appear with Piedmont 460 Factory 42, Sweet Caporal 460 Factory 42 and Sweet Caporal 460 Factory 42 Overprint. So, if indeed the superprints are not possible with AB460, it is not because these subjects never appear with a 460/42 back.

Scot

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  #26  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:59 PM
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Default Red Cobb - 26 diff backs....your favorite T206 Cobb is ?

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Yes, Factory 42 shows up with the Piedmont and Sweet Cap brands; however, I think you'll agree that the AB 460
backs were printed at the very tail end of T206 production line. And, my main proof of this, is that the majority of
them exist with subjects in the 460-only series. And, very few belong to the subjects in the 350/460 series.

TED Z

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  #27  
Old 07-13-2007, 11:31 PM
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Default Red Cobb - 26 diff backs....your favorite T206 Cobb is ?

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

The more I think about this possible "no-print" AB 460 scenario with the SIX S-S subjects, I see it as related the S-S cards
existing with the AB 350-frame backs. There exists a mutally exclusive scenario between these two AB backs; therefore, we
cannot expect to find the S-S with AB 460 backs.

TED Z

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  #28  
Old 07-13-2007, 11:47 PM
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Default Red Cobb - 26 diff backs....your favorite T206 Cobb is ?

Posted By: Scot Reader


Ted,

Perhaps.

My thinking has always been that the six superprints were originally conceived as 350-only subjects (hence like 350-only subjects they appear with the AB350 WITH frame back), but due to their popularity these six were extended into the 460 series. When they decided on the extension, ATC didn't bother to reprint these six with the AB350 NO frame back that first appeared with the 350/460 regular print subjects. However, this still doesn't explain adequately in my mind why these six were not printed with the AB460 back--which appears on 350/460 RP subjects as well as 460-only subjects.

Scot

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  #29  
Old 07-14-2007, 03:05 PM
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Default Red Cobb - 26 diff backs....your favorite T206 Cobb is ?

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I'm still trying to come up with a logical explanation to support my feeling that we are not going to find AB 460 backs
on these 6 cards.

Your point that ATC originally intended these to be just part of the 350-only series (given the AB 350-frame backs)
sounds very plausible. Perhaps when they designed the subsequent series they needed 6 cards to fill out the printing
sheet, they reached back and chose these 6 subjects (just as you said....due to their popularity).
Speaking about popularity, why not include a Tinker card in this group of super-prints, instead of two Chase cards ?

This is exactly what happened in the 1936 Diamond Star set (with the 12 repeated players in the Hi# series). And, in
the 1949 Bowman set, where 12 cards (from an early series) were reprinted to fill out the last sheet in the Hi# series.

TED Z

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  #30  
Old 07-14-2007, 03:51 PM
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Default Red Cobb - 26 diff backs....your favorite T206 Cobb is ?

Posted By: Scot Reader


<<Perhaps when they designed the subsequent series they needed 6 cards to fill out the printing sheet, they reached back and chose these 6 subjects (just as you said....due to their popularity).>>

Sounds very plausible.

<<Speaking about popularity, why not include a Tinker card in this group of super-prints, instead of two Chase cards?>>

Let's assume that I am right about the six superprints being originally intended as 350-only subjects. Tinker does NOT appear in the 350-only series, thus ATC could not have chosen him as a superprint! Instead, two cards of the locally popular Prince Hal were selected for this honor.


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