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  #1  
Old 03-30-2016, 09:48 PM
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Default Vintage Racing?

I've taken a look around and can't find a place that might have any vintage racing, whether in a B/S/T or a general talk area. I know interest is limited, but thought I'd see if anyone had an answer and could guide me.

I've picked up a few T36 cards so far and just a few of the 1960's Indianapolis 500 cards.

If anyone knows anything, help is greatly appreciated!

-kin
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  #2  
Old 03-31-2016, 12:03 AM
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Default T227

Here's a T227 Mulford. I have a lot from the Auto Drivers series and will try and post some scans later in the week. I guess the Soccer/Golf/Cricket section might be a good place to add auto and horse racing cards...
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  #3  
Old 03-31-2016, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
I've taken a look around and can't find a place that might have any vintage racing, whether in a B/S/T or a general talk area. I know interest is limited, but thought I'd see if anyone had an answer and could guide me.

I've picked up a few T36 cards so far and just a few of the 1960's Indianapolis 500 cards.

If anyone knows anything, help is greatly appreciated!

-kin
I have been a huge racing fan my entire life. My parents took me to my first dirt-track race when i was just a few months old and racing has always been a huge part of my family.

I assume you are talking the Marhoefer Meats sets of Indy cards from the 1960s?

I am not sure what you consider "vintage" as far as racing cards go. But I have had some iconic racing cards on my want list for a while now. It's tough because the same cards sit on eBay forever as BINs and the major cards rarely to never pop up at all.

I have looked for a while now for an A.J. Foyt Marhoefer's card at auction, but I never even see a Foyt card for sale individually from the set. Same thing for the iconic cards from the landmark 1972 STP NASCAR set. The same cards sit on eBay forever (Buddy Baker, Elmo Langley, Dave Marcis), but Richard Petty, Bobby Allison and Fred Lorenzen virtually never pop up. Lorenzen with car from the 1972 STP set is one of the all-time great rarities of all racing cards, to the point that there was some doubt as to whether or not it was even distributed at all up until a few years ago.

I was the underbidder on a 1986 Dale Earnhardt SportsStar Photographics card on eBay a few weeks ago. That is one of the iconic racing cards to be had. It is scarce, but it at least pops up more than the cards I mentioned previously.

Stark and Wetzel also produced a series of Indy cards in the mid 1950s. There are a bunch of them on eBay that have been there for a long time as BINs.

But, yea, it is a difficult process trying to find vintage racing cards of big name drivers -- anything that predates the 1988 MAXX era of overproduction.

Last edited by Bored5000; 03-31-2016 at 02:23 AM.
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  #4  
Old 03-31-2016, 09:53 AM
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Didn't even know about these cards. I'm still new in the vintage area. Thanks for that info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Here's a T227 Mulford. I have a lot from the Auto Drivers series and will try and post some scans later in the week. I guess the Soccer/Golf/Cricket section might be a good place to add auto and horse racing cards...
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  #5  
Old 03-31-2016, 10:14 AM
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This is not mine, but I have always thought that this was about as cool of a crossover vintage baseball/vintage racing item as you can get (and maybe the only one!):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-1920s-C...MAAOSwGYVW~JC8
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  #6  
Old 03-31-2016, 10:31 AM
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I collect central Washington racing photos, memorabilia, and programs (moslty from the CWJRA 1946-1967). Here's an image of the "Ole Death Car" driven by Robert Zylstra 1936 Central Washington Fairgrounds (Yakima, WA).

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  #7  
Old 03-31-2016, 01:24 PM
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While I do not collect the trading cards produced of Indianapolis 500 cars and drivers, nor the English tobacco card inserts of racing greats (Tazio Nuvolari and John Cobb come to mind), I sure respect you guys for doing so. Racers and the bigger stars, the cars, have always had a huge pull on the sporting world.

Before I got interested in baseball cards, I became enraptured with the beauty of collecting Dinky Toys, 1/43rd scale model cars of the real thing, in the late 1950s. They began as O scale train accessories, but the public and especially children loved them so much just for themselves. A whole new collecting niche spawned. In time, frustrated collectors yearned for, demanded, and got, 1/43rd scale metal and resin model cars of the actual Indy cars, racing sports cars, Grand Prix racers, and Stock Cars that fluttered their heart, and moved them with the same passion as any baseball card ever could!

Here's hoping you chaps get many more responses from other interested collectors, as well as those who don't care for them, but happen to have some that belonged to their father or grandfather that they'd be willing to part with for the right price.

Regards, Brian Powell
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Old 03-31-2016, 07:33 PM
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I've been a race fan most of my life, primarily Indy (CART & Champcar) and F1. ...saw my first race in 1963 when I was very young at the Miwaukee Mile. Since the split in '95 I haven't followed Indy much but still maintain an extensive collection of Indy and F1 diecast. The old Carousel diecast roadsters were great. I also have a number of signed photos from the 50's through 90's, race programs and vintage Indy 500 ticket stubs. Some of my finished basement that isn't baseball, is racing. I don't have any racing cards though. Open wheel racing has a great history, much like baseball, unfortunately the sport seems to be on the down slope.
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  #9  
Old 03-31-2016, 11:03 PM
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Here is a thread that discusses the 1972 STP NASCAR set and the great rarity that is "Lorenzen with car" from that set. I have seen the comparison made several times that the 1972 STP set is the T206 of racing cards in terms of impact.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/52660...+wish+for+%3B)

Another article that discusses the STP set and the extreme rarity that is "Lorenzen with car." PSA has currently graded one example of that card. The link even includes a picture to prove that the card actually exists. I know that Lorenzen with car is the holy grail from that set, but in at least three years of scouring eBay, I have never seen a Richard Petty card or a Bobby Allison card or a Dick Brooks card or a Charlie Glotzbach card from that set for sale, either.

https://sportscardinfo.wordpress.com...week-1972-stp/

Thread in which one of the top racing card collectors is offering to pay just for a scan of the "Lorenzen with car" card.

https://forums.collectors.com/messag...&enterthread=y

Last edited by Bored5000; 03-31-2016 at 11:38 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-31-2016, 11:20 PM
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Here is a link to a 2010 Huggins and Scott auction for a complete set of 1962 Marhoefer Meats Indy cards. (Marhoefer was a Muncie, Ind., company that produced Indy cards of the current drivers for four years in the early 1960s). The cards are frequently stained from being packaged alongside hot dogs. I have read in the past that many of the cards were thrown out by mothers who disapproved of the smell of the cards due to juice from the wieners soaking the cards. I so wish i would have seen this auction when it was live. The set sold for under $200 with the BP. I have read of Foyt Marhoefer cards alone selling for more than that.

http://sep10.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=25091

The set has been up for sale on eBay on and off for a long time as a BIN at $1,295.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-Marhoef...p2047675.l2557

Here is a link to an auction of a complete set of T36 cards that sold for a little over $700 at Huggins and Scott in 2014. Considering how scarce both the Marhoefer's cards and the T36s are, it is amazing that both sets have had a complete set at auction within the past six years.

http://feb14.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=65307

Last edited by Bored5000; 04-01-2016 at 01:26 AM.
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  #11  
Old 04-01-2016, 12:02 AM
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Here is a fascinating thread in which the top 20 most desirable NASCAR cards are ranked. The list is exclusively NASCAR, so nothing predates the '72 STP set, but it is a fascinating list. The top 10:

1. 1986 SportsStar Photo-Graphics Dale Earnhardt
2. 1992 Traxs Autograph Petty/Earnhardt
3. 1983 UNO Dale Earnhardt
4. 1989 Maxx Dale Earnhardt
5. 1972 STP Richard Petty
6. 1988 Maxx Dale Earnhardt
7. 1972 STP Bobby Allison
8. 1972 STP Fred Lorenzen (I assume this is the "with car" example. The explanation that accompanies the card's description says that the card is on a slow move toward No. 1 on the list as collectors learn more about the 1972 STP set in general and the extreme rarity of "Lorenzen with car").
9. 1988 Maxx (Charlotte & Myrtle Beach) Cover Card
10. 1991 Traks Jeff Gordon

https://forums.collectors.com/messag...hreadid=851215

I am not a fan at all of having the dual autograph card of Earnhardt and Petty listed so high. I have also seen other lists that have the '72 STP Petty card ranked at No. 2 behind the '86 SportsStar Photographic card of Earnhardt.

Earnhardt's' rookie card actually comes from the 1983 UNO set. Not much is known about that set, but it is a 30-card set with driver images on one side and a standard UNO playing card on the other side. I am not really a huge fan of the set, since they do seem kind of cheesy. But that is the generally-accepted Earnhardt rookie card (he does have some earlier postcards).

The 1986 SportsStar Photo-Graphic set is also obscure, but the Earnhardt card from that set usually sells for more than the UNO card (the SportsStar card is also a lot more scarce than the UNO card). I was the underbidder on an Earnhardt SportsStar card that sold for $327 a few weeks ago, and I kick myself for not sniping higher.

In 1988, MAXX entered the racing card game with sets produced in huge quantities. MAXX sets from either of those years are very, very common, but the Earnhardt card is still very desirable because they are his first "mainstream" card releases. The 1988 Earnhardt MAXX card is also famous for never being officially released until 1994. MAXX had the card all ready for release, but was unable to come to a licensing agreement with Earnhardt. As a result, the card was dropped from release at the last minute.

Some copies of the '88 Earnhardt MAXX card did slip out, but six years later, 999 numbered copies of the card were officially released. The MAXX sets were huge (both in quantity and impact), but I am not a huge fan of them from a collecting standpoint because they are so common and easy to find. The Earnhardt MAXX cards are a bit like the '52T Mantle in that there are tons of them around, but the MAXX Earnhardt cards are iconic and what many people first think of when they think of an Earnhardt card.

Last edited by Bored5000; 04-01-2016 at 12:15 AM.
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2016, 05:23 PM
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I'm certainly intrigued and someday would like to complete sets like the 1911 ATC (T36), 1960 Hawes Wax Indy, 1954 Stark & Wetzel and definitely the Marhoefer set.

I've definitely noticed what you say about cards sitting on eBay. I have recently bought two of the Ralph DePalmas. I won two others at auction, for much less than the "asking" prices of the others. I will definitely take my time on it.

Thank you for the info on the Foyt Marhoefer card. I have only been looking for a couple of months, but have been waiting to it (alone) to come available. Looks like I will be waiting awhile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
I have been a huge racing fan my entire life. My parents took me to my first dirt-track race when i was just a few months old and racing has always been a huge part of my family.

I assume you are talking the Marhoefer Meats sets of Indy cards from the 1960s?

I am not sure what you consider "vintage" as far as racing cards go. But I have had some iconic racing cards on my want list for a while now. It's tough because the same cards sit on eBay forever as BINs and the major cards rarely to never pop up at all.

I have looked for a while now for an A.J. Foyt Marhoefer's card at auction, but I never even see a Foyt card for sale individually from the set. Same thing for the iconic cards from the landmark 1972 STP NASCAR set. The same cards sit on eBay forever (Buddy Baker, Elmo Langley, Dave Marcis), but Richard Petty, Bobby Allison and Fred Lorenzen virtually never pop up. Lorenzen with car from the 1972 STP set is one of the all-time great rarities of all racing cards, to the point that there was some doubt as to whether or not it was even distributed at all up until a few years ago.

I was the underbidder on a 1986 Dale Earnhardt SportsStar Photographics card on eBay a few weeks ago. That is one of the iconic racing cards to be had. It is scarce, but it at least pops up more than the cards I mentioned previously.

Stark and Wetzel also produced a series of Indy cards in the mid 1950s. There are a bunch of them on eBay that have been there for a long time as BINs.

But, yea, it is a difficult process trying to find vintage racing cards of big name drivers -- anything that predates the 1988 MAXX era of overproduction.
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Old 04-04-2016, 05:25 PM
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That is pretty cool! Since there isn't a lot of vintage racing out there, I've started taking an interest in post cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobu View Post
This is not mine, but I have always thought that this was about as cool of a crossover vintage baseball/vintage racing item as you can get (and maybe the only one!):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-1920s-C...MAAOSwGYVW~JC8
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
I'm certainly intrigued and someday would like to complete sets like the 1911 ATC (T36), 1960 Hawes Wax Indy, 1954 Stark & Wetzel and definitely the Marhoefer set.

I've definitely noticed what you say about cards sitting on eBay. I have recently bought two of the Ralph DePalmas. I won two others at auction, for much less than the "asking" prices of the others. I will definitely take my time on it.

Thank you for the info on the Foyt Marhoefer card. I have only been looking for a couple of months, but have been waiting to it (alone) to come available. Looks like I will be waiting awhile.
I forgot to mention the Hawes Wax set in my earlier posts. The Hawes Wax set and the Stark & Wetzel set are both great looking sets, but cards rarely come up for auction from either set. The same cards just sit on eBay forever as BINs from the same one or two sellers.

In recent years, I have developed an interest in some of the iconic racing cards/sets and non-sports cards because many iconic/extremely rare vintage baseball cards are out of my price range. This is not a criticism at all of anyone who collects T206s or '33 Goudeys or '52 Topps baseball cards. Everyone should collect what they like. But I get as much of a thrill at finding a really rare card that might only be worth $200-300 as someone gets from buying a T206 Cobb or a '33 Goudey Ruth that is easy to find.

I saw that a DePalma T36 card sold recently on eBay. I did not realize you were the buyer.

Last edited by Bored5000; 04-09-2016 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:16 PM
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Hopefully, I don't jink myself, but I am stoked. I don't have the card in hand yet (obviously), but I picked up one of the cards near the top of my want list on Monday night -- a 1972 Richard Petty card from the STP set. The Petty card is not quite as rare as some of the other iconic cards we have discussed earlier (PSA has graded 10 of them without an autograph and another 12 Petty STP cards that have been autographed), but this was the first '72 Petty STP card I have seen on eBay in several years. The '72 STP set is a great looking set, but about half the cards never appear for sale.

I have never seen an Allison, Glotzbach, Brooks or Lorenzen with car '72 STP card for sale on eBay. More and more people kept "watching" the listing on eBay as time went by on Monday. I was hoping I didn't screw myself by putting in a best offer instead of buying the card as a BIN.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152039963594...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Last edited by Bored5000; 04-04-2016 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
That is pretty cool! Since there isn't a lot of vintage racing out there, I've started taking an interest in post cards.
If you keep an eye out on eBay, you can pick up some old postcards of some huge names in NASCAR for next to nothing. I don't have the listings saved in my eBay watch list anymore, but a few months ago, there were postcard listings from the 1960s of Fireball Roberts, Joe Weatherly, Ned Jarrett, Lee and Richard Petty, etc. that sold for under $50 each at auction. Old postcards from the 1960s of NASCAR stars do show up from time to time on eBay.

There was also a 1980 Dale Earnhardt postcard of him with the Rod Osterlund car that sold for just over $100 a couple months ago on eBay. That pre-dates his SportsStar Photo-Graphics and UNO cards by several years, but sells for much less than his SSPG card or even a high-grade MAXX card of Earnhardt.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DALE-EARNHAR...IAAOSwKtlWpXJ-

Last edited by Bored5000; 04-05-2016 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 04-09-2016, 01:00 AM
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I don't know if anyone is actually reading this thread anymore, but one of the cards near the top of my want list arrived today -- a 1972 Richard Petty card from the STP set. Like I wrote earlier, it took several years of searching for me to find a Petty card from the '72 STP set. The seller was amazing, perhaps the best seller I have ever dealt with on eBay. The seller was an older lady and she sent me a two-page letter discussing her collection and detailing that she acquired the card as a handout from an STP rep while at the 1972 Daytona 500 (which corresponds with everything I have ever read about how the set was distributed).

She wrote that it took her 25 years to complete the set (11 cards) because she could not find the near-mythical Lorenzen with car card. Over the years, she traded/bought/sold various cards from the STP set. The Lorenzen with car card she finally located at a racing memorabilia show has a thumbtack hole, but it was the only one she has ever seen. She wanted to put together a second full set but is stuck at 10 cards due to never being able to find a second Lorenzen with car card.

As I mentioned earlier, the '72 STP Petty card is always ranked somewhere in the top five among the most desirable of all NASCAR cards or racing cards in general.

Scans of the Petty card that just arrived in my mailbox on Friday:




Last edited by Bored5000; 04-09-2016 at 05:25 AM.
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Old 04-09-2016, 01:33 AM
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Eddie, nice acquisition and thanks for the info on that set. When I was a kid, I watched a lot of NASCAR and was a huge David Pearson fan. I'll be a bidder on the auto drivers set in REA, if i can't win the Just So Zimmer.
Again, I think there are are a few auto racing collectors on here and maybe we can take over a sub-category like the soccer one. RMY photos auctions always has some cool racing stuff up for bid....Rob
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Old 04-09-2016, 01:59 AM
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Thanks for the kind words, Rob. I don't quite understand why the STP set does not include David Pearson, perhaps because he was not running the full series anymore by that point. But by '72, he had already been a three-time series champion. Seems like he would have been an obvious choice for the set.

I did see that REA has a full set of T36s up for auction. I have a few other bids in at REA that will almost certainly get blown out of the water. I do wish the T36 set was offered as a stand-alone item rather than in conjunction with the T37 set. I hope that someone on here that will appreciate the set does win the T36s at REA as opposed to someone looking to break it up for resale.

Last edited by Bored5000; 04-09-2016 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 04-10-2016, 02:50 PM
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Congrats on the pickup!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
Hopefully, I don't jink myself, but I am stoked. I don't have the card in hand yet (obviously), but I picked up one of the cards near the top of my want list on Monday night -- a 1972 Richard Petty card from the STP set. The Petty card is not quite as rare as some of the other iconic cards we have discussed earlier (PSA has graded 10 of them without an autograph and another 12 Petty STP cards that have been autographed), but this was the first '72 Petty STP card I have seen on eBay in several years. The '72 STP set is a great looking set, but about half the cards never appear for sale.

I have never seen an Allison, Glotzbach, Brooks or Lorenzen with car '72 STP card for sale on eBay. More and more people kept "watching" the listing on eBay as time went by on Monday. I was hoping I didn't screw myself by putting in a best offer instead of buying the card as a BIN.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152039963594...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Old 04-10-2016, 02:53 PM
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Thanks for sharing that backstory on the card as well. It reminds me a bit of an "American Pickers" type thing where there is a great story attached to an item. I believe that's a big part of my appeal to the vintage - the actual history. I had almost left the hobby (modern cards aren't fun for me anymore), but instead have just moved onto collecting vintage, however slow it may be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
I don't know if anyone is actually reading this thread anymore, but one of the cards near the top of my want list arrived today -- a 1972 Richard Petty card from the STP set. Like I wrote earlier, it took several years of searching for me to find a Petty card from the '72 STP set. The seller was amazing, perhaps the best seller I have ever dealt with on eBay. The seller was an older lady and she sent me a two-page letter discussing her collection and detailing that she acquired the card as a handout from an STP rep while at the 1972 Daytona 500 (which corresponds with everything I have ever read about how the set was distributed).

She wrote that it took her 25 years to complete the set (11 cards) because she could not find the near-mythical Lorenzen with car card. Over the years, she traded/bought/sold various cards from the STP set. The Lorenzen with car card she finally located at a racing memorabilia show has a thumbtack hole, but it was the only one she has ever seen. She wanted to put together a second full set but is stuck at 10 cards due to never being able to find a second Lorenzen with car card.

As I mentioned earlier, the '72 STP Petty card is always ranked somewhere in the top five among the most desirable of all NASCAR cards or racing cards in general.

Scans of the Petty card that just arrived in my mailbox on Friday:



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  #22  
Old 04-10-2016, 04:46 PM
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Cool stuff. I was a Nascar collector until around early 2000's, just a few yrs after Earnhardt Sr.s death...I just couldt see myself collect anymore. Just this yr, I slowly began listing some things in my collection, such as signed programs, cards/autos, and some diecast. Just listed a few things this past few days...sometimes you cant believe what you h-o-a-r-d. Love reading theres other collectors other than baseball. I always been intrigued at the oddball stuff in the back of the AH books.
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  #23  
Old 04-10-2016, 06:24 PM
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Thanks for the kind words, guys. I can now provide some additional information about the '72 STP set. The woman who I bought the Richard Petty card from included her phone number in the letter she sent me and invited me to call her to find out more information from her. She is 75 years old and does not do e-mail. Her daughter was the one that listed the card on eBay for her because the seller does not do anything with computers.

I felt really weird calling this older lady who I had never met before, but at the same time, I did not want to appear rude by not calling her when she wrote in her letter that she loves discussing the STP set and her collection.

I feel like I learned some stuff from her that even other collectors of the set probably do not know. Like I wrote earlier, she acquired the cards at Daytona in 1972. The cards were on a table and fans could take what they wanted. Seemingly, few people were even interested in picking up the free cards that were available. Every card was available except for the Lorenzen with car card. She did not even learn about that card until several years after the fact and believes that card was released at a later date from the other cards.

In the 1980s, she ran a couple ads in various racing publications looking to buy/trade cards from the '72 STP set. Most of the people who contacted her were looking to buy cards they were missing, however, not sell any. At one time, she had 45 total STP cards. She bought/sold/traded cards over the years and has slowly sold all her cards other than her one full set that she is keeping. She agrees that the Elmo Langley, Buddy Baker and Dave Marcis cards are more common than the rest of the set. She has never met or talked with another person who has the Lorenzen with car card. She had four of the Lorenzen portrait cards at one time. About five years ago, she had her daughter list a Lorenzen portrait card, a Bobby Allison card and a Richard Petty card for sale individually on eBay. They all sold within 30 minutes of being posted on eBay.

The seller was a huge David Pearson fan in the 1960s and '70s and also wondered why he was not included in the set. In addition, she always wondered why Fred Lorenzen (even though he was sponsored by STP at the time) has two cards in the set.

She said that she had given up on ever finding a Lorenzen with car card. She attended numerous racing trade shows/card shows at Daytona and Charlotte, but no one ever had that card. Even most NASCAR card vendors did not know that card existed. She could not believe her eyes when she finally found the Lorenzen with car card at a racing show at Stafford Motor Speedway in her home state of Connecticut. She also said she heard over the years that the cards were available at Talladega in 1972, but did not know if that was true or not.

About 25 years ago, she called STP and inquired if they had any cards from the '72 set for sale or could give her a lead on a Lorenzen with car card. She talked with a couple different people at STP, and they did not have any idea what she was even talking about. She finally talked with an employee at STP that was at least familiar with the cards, but said they were a free promotional item that the company never tracked or kept additional cards in stock once they were gone.

When the seller was younger, she attended several of the card shows at White Plains., N.Y. She has some vintage baseball cards (the conversation went back to the STP cards and I forgot to ask her about her baseball cards), but racing was her first love. She stopped collecting baseball because the cards became too expensive.

For all the scammers and rip-off artists that populate eBay, it is amazing to encounter someone like that selling cards on eBay. The seller reminded me of my grandmother from when I was young. She had a very Jefferson Burdick-like philosophy that the thrill was in collecting and the hunt. But I suppose racing cards aren't very popular with scammers because even the iconic. impossible to find cards are only worth a few hundred dollars each,

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Old 04-10-2016, 06:29 PM
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Sorry, double post. Not that this is really a big deal, but the blue mark that is shown the back scan of the Petty card I posted earlier was a spot on the protective case, not on the card itself.


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Old 04-10-2016, 07:08 PM
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Thank you for that additional post, Eddie. I'm not into NASCAR anymore, but was from the mid-90s to mid-2000s. However, I have such an appreciation for the history. Sometimes I feel like I'm one of those "old souls." I have loved every bit of reading about this.

I am adding the Bobby Allison to my want list. Hopefully, one will come up some day. I'm an IndyCar guy and since he raced in the Indy 500, it would be a great addition. I would gladly take one that's "well loved." I have some of those in my football collection, no need to be picky on the racing collection.

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Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
Thanks for the kind words, guys. I can now provide some additional information about the '72 STP set. The woman who I bought the Richard Petty card from included her phone number in the letter she sent me and invited me to call her to find out more information from her. She is 75 years old and does not do e-mail. Her daughter was the one that listed the card on eBay for her because the seller does not do anything with computers.

I felt really weird calling this older lady who I had never met before, but at the same time, I did not want to appear rude by not calling her when she wrote in her letter that she loves discussing the STP set and her collection.

I feel like I learned some stuff from her that even other collectors of the set probably do not know. Like I wrote earlier, she acquired the cards at Daytona in 1972. The cards were on a table and fans could take what they wanted. Seemingly, few people were even interested in picking up the free cards that were available. Every card was available except for the Lorenzen with car card. She did not even learn about that card until several years after the fact and believes that card was released at a later date from the other cards.

In the 1980s, she ran a couple ads in various racing publications looking to buy/trade cards from the '72 STP set. Most of the people who contacted her were looking to buy cards they were missing, however, not sell any. At one time, she had 45 total STP cards. She bought/sold/traded cards over the years and has slowly sold all her cards other than her one full set that she is keeping. She agrees that the Elmo Langley, Buddy Baker and Dave Marcis cards are far more common than the rest of the set. She has never met or talked with another person who has the Lorenzen with car card. She had four of the Lorenzen portrait cards at one time. About five years ago, she had her daughter list a Lorenzen portrait card, a Bobby Allison card and a Richard Petty card for sale individually on eBay. They all sold within 30 minutes of being posted on eBay.

The seller was a huge David Pearson fan in the 1960s and '70s and also wondered why he was not included in the set. In addition, she always wondered why Fred Lorenzen (even though he was sponsored by STP at the time) has two cards in the set.

She said that she had given up on ever finding a Lorenzen with car card. She attended numerous racing trade shows/card shows at Daytona and Charlotte, but no one ever had that card. Even most NASCAR card vendors did not know that card existed. She could not believe her eyes when she finally found the Lorenzen with car card at a racing show at Stafford Motor Speedway in her home state of Connecticut. She also said she heard over the years that the cards were available at Talladega in 1972, but did not know if that was true or not.

About 25 years ago, she called STP and inquired if they had any cards from the '72 set for sale or could give her a lead on a Lorenzen with car card. She talked with a couple different people at STP, and they did not have any idea what she was even talking about. She finally talked with an employee at STP that was at least familiar with the cards, but said they were a free promotional item that the company never tracked or kept additional cards in stock once they were gone.

When the seller was younger, she attended several of the card shows at White Plains., N.Y. She has some vintage baseball cards (the conversation went back to the STP cards and I forgot to ask her about her baseball cards), but racing was her first love. She stopped collecting baseball because the cards became too expensive.

For all the scammers and rip-off artists that populate eBay, it is amazing to encounter someone like that selling cards on eBay. The seller reminded me of my grandmother from when I was young. She had a very Jefferson Burdick-like philosophy that the thrill was in collecting and the hunt. But I suppose racing cards aren't very popular with scammers because even the iconic. impossible to find cards are only worth a few hundred dollars each,
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:41 PM
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Thanks. WVU. The seller also said that she had several of her cards signed over the years at autograph sessions (Petty, Allison, Marcis, Langley) Some of the other people she knew who collected cards told her she was ruining her cards by getting them signed, but she wanted them signed anyway. Her complete set is clean and does not contain autographs.

She believes the reason there seems to be a lot of Elmo Langley cards around is because he had a stash of his card that he would hand out after his career had ended and he was driving the pace car for NASCAR.

This can't be said of many items on eBay, but perhaps she has left some money on the table by offering her cards as BINs rather than at auction. I don't know if I overpaid, underpaid or paid just right for the Petty card? The Baker, Langley and Marcis cards can be had on eBay for well under $100 a card. I had never seen a '72 Petty card for sale before and SMR does not even list prices for the STP cards that rarely/never sell at auction.

The seller said she thinks her complete set would be worth $1,500-2,000 if she ever decided to sell it. I guess that number is probably in the ballpark, but who knows? The Lorenzen with car card is like hunting a unicorn. The mere inclusion of that card, even in damaged condition, could drive the price higher. I know racing is nowhere near as popular or collected as other sports/subjects, but crazy things happen when unicorns like the William McKinley card from the 1932 U.S. Caramel Presidents set or Rocky Graziano from the 1948 Leaf boxing set go to auction in otherwise "affordable" sets.

Bobby Allison is also tough in the STP set. I realize that not everyone chooses to get their cards graded and some raw cards buried in collections are out there yet, but PSA has only graded three Bobby Allison cards. The PSA graded population for the STP set has been stuck at 74 total cards among the 11 different cards for a while now.

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Old 04-10-2016, 10:10 PM
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If you click on the non-sport card icon, top right corner of this main page, you will find many threads on this subject. One collector has been collecting these type cards for 30 years and is very knowledgeable about every set printed.

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Old 04-10-2016, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaddict View Post
If you click on the non-sport card icon, top right corner of this main page, you will find many threads on this subject. One collector has been collecting these type cards for 30 years and is very knowledgeable about every set printed.

Wow, thanks. The whole time I have been posting on this site, I never noticed that link or even realized that the non-sports board was still active or existed anymore. One of the earlier threads I linked to in this thread was a link to a Jon Hardgrove thread about finally acquiring a Lorenzen with car card after 28 years of searching that I found through a Google search.

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Old 04-11-2016, 12:40 PM
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I wouldn't have even checked "non-sports" for racing. Thank you for the info!

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If you click on the non-sport card icon, top right corner of this main page, you will find many threads on this subject. One collector has been collecting these type cards for 30 years and is very knowledgeable about every set printed.

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Old 04-11-2016, 09:10 PM
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I saw a post a few weeks ago on SCF (I don't want to link to it and risk violating any TOS rules) and there's a guy who actually lives in my area that is a hardcore Alan Kulwicki collector. Recently he picked up a 1986 Quincy's card that was (perhaps) given out just as a promo at Daytona that season.

I assume it wasn't on the "Top 20" list because it wasn't mainstream. I can say that the price paid for it would have put it up there if it was mainstream.

I'm just intrigued by the card. He talked a little about it. I was just wondering if anyone here might have more info on it.

I do plan to go ahead and try to keep this thread active, since we don't have an actual forum designated to post racing in. Going to keep an eye on that non-sports area as well.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
I saw a post a few weeks ago on SCF (I don't want to link to it and risk violating any TOS rules) and there's a guy who actually lives in my area that is a hardcore Alan Kulwicki collector. Recently he picked up a 1986 Quincy's card that was (perhaps) given out just as a promo at Daytona that season.

I assume it wasn't on the "Top 20" list because it wasn't mainstream. I can say that the price paid for it would have put it up there if it was mainstream.

I'm just intrigued by the card. He talked a little about it. I was just wondering if anyone here might have more info on it.

I do plan to go ahead and try to keep this thread active, since we don't have an actual forum designated to post racing in. Going to keep an eye on that non-sports area as well.
There was an Alan Kulwicki Quincy's card that sold on eBay about 5-6 months ago. The card sold as a BIN for $499. I remember looking up that card when it was on eBay, and PSA had graded one of them. I get it that a Quincy's card is a holy grail for a diehard Kulwicki fan. But $499 seems like a steep price to pay for an Alan Kulwicki card. Even very scarce Petty and Earnhardt cards usually sell for less than that.

I remember digging around online to see what I could learn about that card and information was pretty limited. From what I remember reading, Quincy's had the card produced as a promotional handout. I am not at all familiar with the manufacturer, Big League Cards.

There was also one that sold on eBay in 2008. The description seems kinda dubious to me. LOL. The seller says that some unnamed source appraised the card at $500 in 1999.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alan-Kulwick...p2047675.l2557

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedi...ger-big-league

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Old 04-12-2016, 01:00 PM
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I think that was the Kulwicki he bought. Even if it is a steep price, if it's a piece you can't often find and it's the only one that you need, sometimes you pay what you have. Kinda like the STP cards, what if you never see one again? Like the guys on American Pickers say, if it's something you've never seen, now is the time to buy.
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Old 04-13-2016, 10:05 AM
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I have some more of these coming in the next couple of weeks, but I thought I'd share this. It's a blog post (my card blog) about my 1911 T36 (ATC Auto Drivers) Ralph DePalma.

Yes, a Non-Baseball “T” Card Addition
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:15 AM
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Default Speaking of Indy racing . . .

.

. . . this gentleman has a pretty decent collection of both vintage
and current Indy Car racing autographs.

http://www.indy500autographs.com/index.html
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
I have some more of these coming in the next couple of weeks, but I thought I'd share this. It's a blog post (my card blog) about my 1911 T36 (ATC Auto Drivers) Ralph DePalma.

Yes, a Non-Baseball “T” Card Addition
Cool blog, wvu. I will definitely check out future updates you make to it.

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Old 04-13-2016, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HexsHeroes View Post
.

. . . this gentleman has a pretty decent collection of both vintage
and current Indy Car racing autographs.

http://www.indy500autographs.com/index.html
I discovered that website a couple years ago, and that collection truly is amazing. I remember looking at nearly all the examples shown on that site, especially the drivers from the early days of the 500.

Funny you should mention that site. A Ray Harroun autograph on a '61 Indy ticket stub closed above $1,000 in an eBay auction a couple weeks ago. From what I have read in the past, Harroun was brought back to the track that year to honor him on the 50th anniversary of his win. I know that Harroun is an iconic name from winning the first 500 (controversy over whether or not he really did win the 1911 500 aside), but I was surprised to see the auction close above $1,000. He lived until 1968, so his autograph is not as impossible as some of the winners who died shortly after their wins in the 1920s.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Indy-In...vip=true&rt=nc

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Old 04-13-2016, 12:24 PM
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Here is a cool video I found a while ago -- A.J. Foyt and Ray Harroun on "I've Got a Secret" in 1961. "Mr. X's" secret was that he had just won the '61 Indianapolis 500 a few weeks earlier. "Mr. Y's" secret was that he won the first Indianapolis 500 in 1911.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo8E2bBpnRY
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:26 PM
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Finally took a good look at that thread, thank you! I just learned about a new IndyCar set. Had no idea about the Fleer set.

I decided NOT auto tell the wifey about a new "project."

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If you click on the non-sport card icon, top right corner of this main page, you will find many threads on this subject. One collector has been collecting these type cards for 30 years and is very knowledgeable about every set printed.

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Old 04-16-2016, 11:27 PM
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Here is a link I have had bookmarked for a while that discusses the various Marhoefer sets of the '60s. Jon Hardgrove really is the man when it comes to older racing sets.

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/marhoefer61/go.html

Here is another thread in which Jon Hardgrove details, year-by-year, how many cards there are in each of the Marhoefer sets.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/52660...s+to+the+1950s

Here is another link I have had saved for a while in which Jon Hardgrove shows examples of many different older sets and gives a blurb about them.

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/AutomobilecardsUSA.htm

Another Jon Hardgrove thread in which he extensively discusses the Marhoefer sets, checklists, etc. Great reading for those who want to learn more about the Marhoefer sets.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/52660...anted+to+know)

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Old 04-16-2016, 11:45 PM
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Here is another cool thread I have bookmarked for a while that show many different sets in the massive thread (1970 Fleer Dragstrips. 1972 STPs, 1983 UNOs, 1985-86 SportsStar Photo-Graphics, 1987 World of Oultaws, etc, etc.). This is a great thread to see images of every card from many different sets.

https://forums.collectors.com/messag...VIEWTMP=Linear
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:15 PM
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Eddie,

Thanks for those links. I took a look at them and learned quite a bit over the weekend!

Here's another vintage Indianapolis 500 card I picked up. Forgot to post it sooner.

Mailday from the Other Side of the Pond
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
Eddie,

Thanks for those links. I took a look at them and learned quite a bit over the weekend!

Here's another vintage Indianapolis 500 card I picked up. Forgot to post it sooner.

Mailday from the Other Side of the Pond
That's a neat looking card, Kin. I was not previously familiar with it.
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:50 AM
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Here's another one that's not driver related, but Indianapolis 500 related.

Sometimes I Can’t Even Recall How I Find Out About Cards.


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That's a neat looking card, Kin. I was not previously familiar with it.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:30 PM
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Here's another one that's not driver related, but Indianapolis 500 related.

Sometimes I Can’t Even Recall How I Find Out About Cards.
I was familiar with that card and the Adventure set as a whole because of the infamy of the Schmeling card. Nice pick up for $3.

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Old 04-20-2016, 12:39 PM
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No idea what that means...looks like I'll be googling that now.

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I was familiar with that card and the Adventure set as a whole because of the infamy of the Schmeling card. Nice pick up for $3.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:44 PM
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Schmeling was issued with a swastika as a national flag symbol then pulled when there was an uproar. However, it was part of a large hoard of unopened material that was found some years ago and though expensive can be readily acquired. That hoard is why there are so many dirt-cheap high grade Adventure cards out there.
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Old 04-21-2016, 02:03 AM
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No idea what that means...looks like I'll be googling that now.
Exhibitman gave the low down on the Adventure Schmeling card. Here is a link to Exhibitman's site with a picture of the Schmeling card and some more details. I don't own a Schmeling Adventure card, but I remember being fascinated by that card when I first learned about it and trying to learn as much as I could about it. Like many other cards, several of the same Schmeling Adventure cards have been sitting on eBay for a very long time. The card does come up for auction on eBay fairly frequently, though.

http://www.boxingcarddigest.com/hall...CC=3236332837&

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Old 04-30-2016, 07:42 PM
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It may not be a trading card, but by the name, it's still a card.

Mailday: Expanding Horizons & Indianapolis Motor Speedway

Have a great weekend!
-Kin
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:19 AM
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Cool postcard, Kin. Some of the early postcards showing the start of individual Indy 500s are neat and can be picked up for nearly nothing.

Did anyone on here pick up the T36 set at REA last night?

Last edited by Bored5000; 05-01-2016 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:12 PM
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Kin K.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
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I searched through the listings at one point where I thought any of the racing cards could be. Somehow I missed it. Do you have a link to it? I greatly dislike how I have trouble finding racing things on these sites.


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Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
Cool postcard, Kin. Some of the early postcards showing the start of individual Indy 500s are neat and can be picked up for nearly nothing.

Did anyone on here pick up the T36 set at REA last night?
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Collecting open-wheel/Indianapolis 500 related racing (attempting the T36 Auto Drivers set), T206 (all Scoops Carey & Woodie Thornton), 1955 All-American football and WVU related.

My card blog: I Feel Like a Collector Again

My Collector Focus page.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; ROAKs received from CW & LuckyLarry
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