Reflections on 1949 BOWMAN's (25 HOFers, many Rookies)...show-N-tell us of your cards

[jason.1969]

Ted,

If you'd be good with it I might like to summarize much of what you've provided here into an article for the SABR Baseball Cards blog. Let me know if that sounds good. Naturally I'd credit you appropriately.

Thanks,
Jason

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[samosa4u]

Ted,

You stated that the 5th series are tough because Bowman was in a hurry to get out the 6th (and last) series, so they rushed the 5th series. Did Bowman regularly do this with their other sets as well?

You also mentioned that the cards from 1948 - 52 were printed on a 38-inch (track width) press. Is this a five-color press you're talking about or was it a smaller one? I know that Zabel Bros. had many presses in their plant. They would use the big presses for the bigger jobs and small presses for smaller jobs. Back then, they did not have the technology to print on both sides of the sheet at the same time. After printing the fronts, they would then move the sheets to a smaller press to print the backs.

Oh, and I never knew the PCL cards existed! Very cool!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Ted,

If you'd be good with it I might like to summarize much of what you've provided here into an article for the SABR Baseball Cards blog. Let me know if that sounds good. Naturally I'd credit you appropriately.

Thanks,
Jason

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Jason

That is fine with me, provided that I get to proof-read it before you submit it to SABR. AND, you credit
Ralph Triplette and I by referring to our 1983 Baseball Cards Magazine article (6 pages) displayed here.


.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

My first complete 1949 BOWMAN PCL set.

In 1984 at the Atlantic City BB card Show, I checked-out Alan "Mr Mint" Rosen's booth. He had his usual spectacular display of "oldies-n-goodies".
Including a very seldom seen complete 1949 BOWMAN PCL set.

"How much, Alan ?"....I asked. He said 2K. I said I have exactly 2K in my pocket. But, I need to spend some of it elsewhere. He suggested I give
him 500, and we can complete this deal at a later date. He removed this set off the table and told me stop by to take it with me upon leaving the
show.
The following week I drove to his home in North Jersey. He was more interested in trading than cash. I was aware of this, so I brought an eclectic
bunch of goodies. You'll have quite a laugh when you find out what he took in trade for the 1500 balance, which I owed him to complete the deal.

Here is page #2 (of 3 pages) from my 1949 BOWMAN album. Have a good look, as you very rarely see these PCL cards.


……..… "Pinky" Woods ………………………….…… Mickey Grasso ………......………………. Xavier Rescigno

…….. "Swede" Jensen ………………..………..…… "Jo-Jo" White ………......…………..……. Harvey Storey




……...….. Tony York ……………..…….…..……..…… Jake Mooty ………........…..………..……. "Red" Adams

…..…"Iron Man" Malone …………...…….……..Maurice Van Robays ………......……..…....…. Jim Tabor



Stay tuned for my PCL find......Oh ! and I will not forget the trade deal with Rosen


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Ted,

1st

You stated that the 5th series are tough because Bowman was in a hurry to get out the 6th (and last) series, so they rushed the 5th series. Did Bowman regularly do this with their other sets as well?

2nd

You also mentioned that the cards from 1948 - 52 were printed on a 38-inch (track width) press. Is this a five-color press you're talking about or was it a smaller one? I know that Zabel Bros. had many presses in their plant. They would use the big presses for the bigger jobs and small presses for smaller jobs. Back then, they did not have the technology to print on both sides of the sheet at the same time. After printing the fronts, they would then move the sheets to a smaller press to print the backs.

Oh, and I never knew the PCL cards existed! Very cool!

samosa4u

1st…..The first Series (cards #1 - 72) in the 1950 BOWMAN set are more difficult to find than the rest of the 180 cards in this set. So, this may be another example.

2nd…..The larger BOWMAN cards (1953 - 1955 sets) were printed using a 43-inch (track width) press.

The printing of all the BOWMAN Sportscards was done using a 4-color process.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[62corvette]

Ted,
I have 7 49 Bowman with double-printed backs. What can you tell me about those? I got those in St. Louis in 1972--same guy had uncut sheets of 49's, but I was putting myself through my 7th year of college and didn't have two nickels to rub together.

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by 62corvette

Ted,
I have 7 49 Bowman with double-printed backs. What can you tell me about those? I got those in St. Louis in 1972--same guy had uncut sheets of 49's, but I was putting myself through my 7th year of college and didn't have two nickels to rub together.

I have several of these, both individual cards and some partial sheets. I suspect the partial sheets are part full scrap sheets that somehow didn't make it to the garbage pile.

I also have a few graded examples from PSA. PSA thinks this one is trimmed, but I think it is more likely just a card cut from an uncut sheet. I am sure Ted has his own opinions or evidence about whether this is right.

One interesting thing about this particular example is that it card #36 (Peewee Reese) on the front, but on the back it is Reese #36 and Ken Heintzleman #108. These cards happen to be the last numerical cards from the first sheet and the third sheet of 36. I've seen the sequence of the cards on uncut sheets and they are not in sequential numerical order from upper left across the rows to lower right. But since Heinzelman is the the highest number in sheet 3 and Reese is the highest number in sheet 1, I wonder if that means that there was some specific pattern they used for the numbering sequence between the lowest and highest card number for each sheet. But since #4 is missing on the first sheet (Jerry Priddy #4 was skipped and printed on second sheet for some reason), maybe this is just a coincidence and means nothing.

Ted probably knows...

[tedzan]

Hi Mike and Tony

I have many overprinted cards from this set. Both Lo #s and Hi #s. Plus a full uncut 36 card sheet of which cards numbering 1 - 36 are overprinted
with bios of cards numbering 4, 74 - 108.
All 7 sheets printed in this set consist of 36 cards. And the printers would test a new series of printing plates by overprinting them on older series of
scrap sheets.

Cards from the 1st sheet (#1 - 3, 73, 5 - 36) overprinted like Tony's Reese card are quite plentiful.

The 5th sheet cards (#145 - 180) overprinted with 7th sheet cards (#217 - 240, plus the 12 variations) are very, very rare. I have only about 14 of
these....and, I have been searching for these Hi # overprints for 40+ years.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Hey guys,

Here's an example of a Hi # card overprinted. Rigney (#170) was printed on the 5th sheet. The overprint of the Evans back occurred during a test run by the Printer,
prior to the final press runs of the 7th sheet cards.

I acquired this card (and approx. a dozen Hi # cards with overprints) in 1982. I have not seen any since. If any of you have Hi # overprinted cards, please post them.
I would really appreciate seeing these very rare cards.

Thanks.


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

My BOWMAN PCL find...…
I received a call from a guy back in the late 1980's who grew up in the Philadelphia area. Jim wanted to sell me his BOWMAN and TOPPS
collections. He collected Sportscards as a kid in the late 1940's and early 1950's.


I was especially interested in his 1949 BOWMAN cards since I was starting a 2nd set. Jim had 150+ 1949 BOWMAN's. When he started to
describe them to me, I was in for quite a surprise for they included six PCL cards. He recalled these PCL cards were intermixed with the
regular BOWMAN cards in 5-cent packs. Jim recalls being confused, since the PCL cards were in the same packs as cards whose numbers
were in the 100's.
Incidentally, the cards in his entire collection were in amazing condition. Needless to say, the PCL cards were upgrades into my PCL set.


Here is the first page (of 3 pages) from my 1949 BOWMAN album. which includes the PCL set.


……....… Lee Anthony ……………….……….…… George Metkovich ………..………...…...….. Ralph Hodgin

…….. "Sheriff" Gassaway ………………..…...…..… Tony Freitas …..……...………..……. Gordon Maltzberger


……..… Ken Holcombe ………………..…………..…… Don Ross ……...……..…….…...…...… "Inky" Coscarart

…...….. "Jeep" Handley …………………….....…… Herman Besse ……….....…..…………...…. John Lazor



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[JRO$!(]

Another amazing thread with interesting Bowman info! Thanks much.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by JRO$!(

Another amazing thread with interesting Bowman info! Thanks much.

jt

I appreciate your complimentary words.

Stay tuned for more information regarding this set of cards.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Reprising my Alan Rosen (Mr. Mint) story in order to tell you how it ended......

Originally Posted by tedzan

My first complete 1949 BOWMAN PCL set.

In 1984 at the Atlantic City BB card Show, I checked-out Alan "Mr Mint" Rosen's booth. He had his usual spectacular display of "oldies-n-goodies".
Including a very seldom seen complete 1949 BOWMAN PCL set.

"How much, Alan ?"....I asked. He said 2K. I said I have exactly 2K in my pocket. But, I need to spend some of it elsewhere. He suggested I give
him 500, and we can complete this deal at a later date. He removed this set off the table and told me stop by to take it with me upon leaving the
show.
The following week I drove to his home in North Jersey. He was more interested in trading than cash. I was aware of this, so I brought an eclectic
bunch of goodies. You'll have quite a laugh when you find out what he took in trade for the 1500 balance, which I owed him to complete the deal.

OK, of all the vintage "goodies" I offered him in trade to complete this PCL set deal, Alan took ten - 1982 TOPPS Traded sets, and $500 in cash. Those 10 sets cost
me only $5 each in 1982. Needless to say, I was very delighted with this deal.

My advice to any one on this forum, who really enjoys a serious challenge....try to complete this PCL set. After all, you only have to go on the hunt for 36 cards
This set has increased at least five-fold in value since I first started collecting these cards in the early 1980's.


And, displayed here is the 3rd (of 3 pages) from my 1949 BOWMAN album which includes the 1949 PCL set.


…..…..… Johnny Rucker ………………………….…… Jack Brewer ………….…....…....… Dominic Dallessandro

…....….. Dick Lajeski ……….….……...………..…… Albie Glossop ………..…….….……….…. Frank Kelleher



………...… Les Scarsella ………………..………….…… Joe Marty …………….………...……..… Bill Raimondi

……...... Gene Handley …………..……....………..…… Tom Seats ……….…..…..…….……. "Mickey" Burnett




TED Z

T206 Reference
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[jimmysuitcase]

Ted, our appreciation for your wealth of knowledge is only rivaled by our appreciation for your willingness to share it. Thank you for maintaining this thread!

I have amassed 249 of the 252, and I lack three big cards (Paige, J.Robinson, Ashburn) due to budgetary constraints. I've HELD those three cards before...

I have one slate gray (a hi#) and two PCL cards as well. Roe was one of my last acquisitions, and I also had trouble for a while getting #174 Terry Moore - so much so that I sprung for a low grade dupe when I saw one pop up. The toughest variation for me to locate was Murtaugh. I also have a handful of overprinted backs, including one that features Campanella.

I put together most of my set about 15-20 years ago, picked up a smattering of cards more recently, and will likely remain stuck on 249 unless I find a low grade trader or change income tax brackets. :-)

Please keep the info flowing! I really enjoyed seeing scarcities like the baseball bank, PCL wrapper, and the uncut sheets.

-James

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by jimmysuitcase

Ted, our appreciation for your wealth of knowledge is only rivaled by our appreciation for your willingness to share it. Thank you for maintaining this thread!

I have amassed 249 of the 252, and I lack three big cards (Paige, J.Robinson, Ashburn) due to budgetary constraints. I've HELD those three cards before...

I have one slate gray (a hi#) and two PCL cards as well. Roe was one of my last acquisitions, and I also had trouble for a while getting #174 Terry Moore - so much so that I sprung for a low grade dupe when I saw one pop up. The toughest variation for me to locate was Murtaugh. I also have a handful of overprinted backs, including one that features Campanella.

I put together most of my set about 15-20 years ago, picked up a smattering of cards more recently, and will likely remain stuck on 249 unless I find a low grade trader or change income tax brackets. :-)

Please keep the info flowing! I really enjoyed seeing scarcities like the baseball bank, PCL wrapper, and the uncut sheets.

-James

Hi jimmysuitcase

That's a cool name. And, thank you for all your kind words.

First, I'm curious regarding the Hi # slate card you have.... what card is it ?

Interesting to hear that the Preacher Roe card was one of your last cards. And, Terry Moore is indeed a tough card to find. I have a nice one for you, if you would like to upgrade.

Stay tuned there is more interesting things to share with you regarding these neat 1949 "gems".



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[jimmysuitcase]

Thanks for your response, Ted. My slate hi# is pictured below next to his normal counterpart.

[G1911]

I'm building this set right now, in low grade, with 81 cards to go. I really underrated the high numbers before starting this set, they are pretty tough comparatively. I've got a slate Joe Tipton, and plan to do the white/grey backs in series 1.


I like and hate this set. I like it as the first of the post-war 'full size' mainstream sets, and I've grown to like the odd half-colorization used in 1949 by Leaf and Bowman. As a set collector who doesn't care about rookies, all the star rookies and their increased prices sure can get annoying though, for cards that are less attractive (In my subjective opinion) than pretty much any of the mainstream 50's sets featuring the same players. The Jackie card I have never understood how it can be reasonably considered a rookie at all. I've had a ton of fun picking up the commons though as part of my full Bowman run (all my other sets are 0-5 cards away from completion).

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by jimmysuitcase

Thanks for your response, Ted. My slate hi# is pictured below next to his normal counterpart.

jimmysuitcase

Thanks, I have "Buddy" Kerr.

I've been tracking the Hi # slates which have been found.
To date, I have 26 slates from the Hi# series.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by G1911

I'm building this set right now, in low grade, with 81 cards to go. I really underrated the high numbers before starting this set, they are pretty tough comparatively. I've got a slate Joe Tipton, and plan to do the white/grey backs in series 1.


I like and hate this set. I like it as the first of the post-war 'full size' mainstream sets, and I've grown to like the odd half-colorization used in 1949 by Leaf and Bowman. As a set collector who doesn't care about rookies, all the star rookies and their increased prices sure can get annoying though, for cards that are less attractive (In my subjective opinion) than pretty much any of the mainstream 50's sets featuring the same players.

The Jackie card I have never understood how it can be reasonably considered a rookie at all.

I've had a ton of fun picking up the commons though as part of my full Bowman run (all my other sets are 0-5 cards away from completion).

G1911

You are a true collector...... Thanks for sharing your thoughts regarding this set.

And yes, the 1949 BOWMAN Jackie Robinson is far from being his "rookie" card.


ROOKIE card.....issued Summer 1947 ..…..……………..….....……. 1948 ……..…...…..…....…... Early Spring 1949





Mid Spring 1949





TED Z

T206 Reference
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[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by tedzan

G1911

You are a true collector...... Thanks for sharing your thoughts regarding this set.

And yes, the 1949 BOWMAN Jackie Robinson is far from being his "rookie" card.

You forgot the Swell Sport Thrills!

Jackie has so many early issues and all this can just create confusion among us collectors. His 1948 Leaf has the crown at the moment and I think it should stay that way. This was his first card issued by a major US card manufacturer. Furthermore, it comes from one of the best baseball sets ever made.

We also want to be careful here that Jackie doesn't end up going the "Pele route." Pele had a few rookie cards, which were manufactured between the years of 1958 to 1960, sell for large amounts of money. The collecting world started to take notice, and next thing you know, he now has about twenty-plus rookies! Here is the latest discovery:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-A-Gaze...4AAOSwgOddzw05

It looks hand-cut to me and PSA ended up grading this piece of garbage. I had to walk away from all this madness.

[jason.1969]

The 1948 attached to the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson is inaccurate, and the card should be regarded as 1949. This would tie it with Bowman among major issues and of course put it even more behind various minor issues.

Personally I like 1948 Swell as a "major enough" issue and true 1948, though the card is more a highlights card than a "pure" Jackie card.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

ROOKIE card.....issued Summer 1947 .…..……………..….....……. 1948 ....……..…...…..…....… 1948
.





Early Spring 1949 ..………...………...................…...………. Mid Spring 1949

. .



TED Z
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Ohhhh ! I forgot the 1948 SWELL GUM JRobby. Thanks for reminding me, Jason.

Furthermore, it's really refreshing to hear some one else on this forum agree with me regarding the 1949 LEAF cards.
Thanks again, Jason.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Ohhhh ! I forgot the 1948 SWELL GUM JRobby. Thanks for reminding me, Jason.



Furthermore, it's really refreshing to hear some one else on this forum agree with me regarding the 1949 LEAF cards.

Thanks again, Jason.





TED Z



T206 Reference

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Here is a SABR poll from May, which shows at least 1949 is gaining steam. I linked readers to your excellent article at http://oldcardboard.com/misc/issue09/issue09.asp and Keith Olbermann commented on the poll with 1949 (see second pic).



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Here is a SABR poll from May, which shows at least 1949 is gaining steam. I linked readers to your excellent article at http://oldcardboard.com/misc/issue09/issue09.asp


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Jason

That poll shows us that 42 % of collectors have been "brainwashed" by PSA with their phony "1948" date on their flips. PSA should recall every single 1949 LEAF card
that they have graded, and re-grade them correcting the the date on their flip. But, we know they won't do this. So, the "fake news" will continue.

Hey guys,
I appeal to your common sense of logic. Certain bios on the backs of the 1949 LEAF cards provide proof as to when these cards were issued. I do no expect you to start
reading numerous bios to prove it to yourself. Displayed here is one card that tells the whole story, Lou Boudreau's bio......check-it-out.

.

Lou Boudreau's MVP Award was announced in December of 1948.

And, for those of you who would counter..... "well some cards were issued in 1948, while others in 1949". Well. that is sheer "horse-crap".
The COPYRIGHT date on the back of each card identifies when its Bio was written and registered.

Here is an uncut sheet of the 1st Series cards issued in early Spring of 1949. I, and many other old-time collectors, acquired these cards in 1949.
And NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE, has ever said they acquired them in 1948. I did a survey some years ago in which I asked this of collectors who
grew up in various parts of the country in the late 1940's.





For those of you who value accurate dating of BB card sets, I leave you with this....get a copy of http://oldcardboard.com/misc/issue09/issue09.asp.
You'll find it worthwhile and very interesting.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[G1911]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Jason

That poll shows us that 42 % of collectors have been "brainwashed" by PSA with their phony "1948" date on their flips. PSA should recall every single 1949 LEAF card
that they have graded, and re-grade them correcting the the date on their flip. But, we know they won't do this. So, the "fake news" will continue.

Hey guys,
I appeal to your common sense of logic. Certain bios on the backs of the 1949 LEAF cards provide proof as to when these cards were issued. I do no expect you to start
reading numerous bios to prove it to yourself. Displayed here is one card that tells the whole story, Lou Boudreau's bio......check-it-out.

.

Lou Boudreau's MVP Award was announced in December of 1948.

And, for those of you who would counter..... "well some cards were issued in 1948, while others in 1949". Well. that is sheer "horse-crap".
The COPYRIGHT date on the back of each card identifies when its Bio was written and registered.

Here is an uncut sheet of the 1st Series cards issued in early Spring of 1949. I, and many other old-time collectors, acquired these cards in 1949.
And NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE, has ever said they acquired them in 1948. I did a survey some years ago in which I asked this of collectors who
grew up in various parts of the country in the late 1940's.





For those of you who value accurate dating of BB card sets, I leave you with this....get a copy of http://oldcardboard.com/misc/issue09/issue09.asp.
You'll find it worthwhile and very interesting.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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I think it's pretty obvious that the Leafs are a 1949 issue, the Boudreau being the most concrete evidence that makes 1948 100% impossible. I've wondered how this set got stamped with the 1948 date everywhere though. This was a fairly major issue, and not a very old set when the catalogs first began, unlike many other sets that have been attributed with inaccurate dates. In the early periodicals, does anyone know if these were correctly labelled as 1949, and the mistake came later? Or have these just always been labelled with the wrong year? Most all the catalogs and checklists I have access too from before the last few years insist it is a 1948 issue, not just PSA's slabs.


It would be a fun project to more thoroughly trace some of the historiography than the history of the sets themselves, how a lot of the misinformation that has been spread happened (T206 Hustler backs, T220 Silver border Jack Goodman, N28 being an 1888 issue, etc.)

As to Jackie:
1947 Bond Bread
1947 Bond Bread Exhibit
1947 Bond Bread Dual Sided
1947 Bond Bread Jackie Series (13 cards)
1948 R346 blue Tint
1948 Swell Sports Thrills

By my count, that's at least 18 different cards before his Leaf and Bowman were issued. If his Leaf and Bowman are rookies, than almost all the cards in the sets is a "rookie," even though those players are on many earlier cards.


Since posts are better with a card, here's the 3 Leafs I got in the mail this week, including Mr. Boudreau. I don't like this set quite enough to pay up the big bucks for the scarce second series, but I'd like to complete Series 1, raw and low-grade.

[samosa4u]

I'm going to take Ted's word for it. Alright, so it's 1949 Leaf, got it. However, it's still his rookie card and that's the point I was trying to make. It's the first Jackie Robinson made by a major US card manufacturer. Bond Bread, to me, is garbage. It looks like they printed most of their stuff in 1947 and one Buffalo Bisons set ten years later, and that's it.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I'm going to take Ted's word for it. Alright, so it's 1949 Leaf, got it. However, it's still his rookie card and that's the point I was trying to make. It's the first Jackie Robinson made by a major US card manufacturer. Bond Bread, to me, is garbage. It looks like they printed most of their stuff in 1947 and one Buffalo Bisons set ten years later, and that's it.

Actually, figuring out the "rookie" card game turned me off back in the early 1980's, when many in this hobby referred to Mantle's 1952 TOPPS card as his "rookie" card.
And, I would flip the pages of my 1951 BOWMAN set to card #253 (Mantle) and I wondered what were these people "smoking"

Whatever....this BOWMAN "train" has switched on to a sidetrack.....and, it's time to get it back on the main line.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Riding again on the BOWMAN rails....if you are interested in additional info regarding the PCL set, tune into an article Mark Macrae and I
published in the VCBC magazine (Issue # 10).

You'll find it interesting, as we provide more insight into these mysterious cards, and actual collector's experiences regarding these cards.



...…...... extremely rare 1949 PCL wrapper .................................................. ...............….. regular 5-cent 1949 wrapper



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

I am quite surprised at the responses to this thread regarding the fascination with the color error cards found in the set.
I'm working a special set (approx. 40 % complete) comprising of various color errors. Shown here is a sampling of some
of the printing mistakes found in this set.

Feel free to post some of your printing mistakes here.


SLATE Lo # and Hi # cards





PINK and YELLOW cards (Should be RED and ORANGE)




7th sheet SLATE cards (Salkeld and Muncrief normally YELLOW)





TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Speaking about "color-less" BOWMAN cards.....reminds me, I still recall in the Spring of 1950 when us kids opened our 1st packs of 1950 BOWMAN BB cards,
and the thrill we got seeing all those colorful cards.....Yogi Berra, Jackie Robinson, Robin Roberts, Bob Feller, Phil Rizzuto, Pee Wee Reese, Warren Spahn, etc.











TED Z

T206 Reference
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[jimmysuitcase]

Ted,
I have a Doby hi# that has a light-colored (not gray) back and appears to have been handcut. I bought it as a younger collector before I knew that hi#s "only" came with gray backs, and I dismissed my purchase as a reprint.

This past weekend, I saw a long-time dealer and noticed he had two Doby cards in his display case. Upon examination, I noticed that one was legit/typical and the other had a light-colored back like mine, and it was also hand cut. When I asked him about the card's authenticity, he said that it was something akin to (though maybe not precisely) a box-bottom display card.

Do you have any knowledge of or examples of these yourself, or is it likely that we may both have reprints?

James

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by jimmysuitcase

Ted,
I have a Doby hi# that has a light-colored (not gray) back and appears to have been handcut. I bought it as a younger collector before I knew that hi#s "only" came with gray backs, and I dismissed my purchase as a reprint.

This past weekend, I saw a long-time dealer and noticed he had two Doby cards in his display case. Upon examination, I noticed that one was legit/typical and the other had a light-colored back like mine, and it was also hand cut. When I asked him about the card's authenticity, he said that it was something akin to (though maybe not precisely) a box-bottom display card.

Do you have any knowledge of or examples of these yourself, or is it likely that we may both have reprints?

James

Hi James

I don't have any reprints in my sets. And, I'm not sure I understand what a "bottom-box display card" is ?

Show me some scans, and I'll give you a better answer on this.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[jimmysuitcase]

Hi Ted,
I feel silly even posting these, as the card looks so fake to me. If it weren’t for the assertion of this dealer (who shall remain nameless) and my card’s similarity of appearance to his, I wouldn’t have even mentioned it.

“Box-bottoms”: I’m not sure if you collected any cards from packs during the late 80s, but many of the wax boxes had cards on the box bottoms that could be cut out and saved. The assertion about this light-backed Doby card was that there was a similar situation in 1949. Perhaps a consumer bought the last pack of cards, and on the bottom of the box - maybe inside bottom or maybe outside bottom - were a few card images that could be cut out and saved - not by design, necessarily, but just for the heck of it.

Does that sound at all familiar or feasible? Have you encountered any 49B boxes that might’ve had such advertising?

Thanks for any feedback!
James

PS: all of my other Bowman card backs predictably are light or gray from #1-72 and gray from 73-240.

[tedzan]

Hi James....sorry for the delay, as I was away all day.

I collected these cards as a kid (Spring thru the Fall of 1949). I don't recall anything of what you are suggesting regarding the 24-count wax-pack
boxes that the 1949 BOWMAN's were in.
Furthermore, the boxes I have seen, since I returned to the hobby in the late 1970's, do NOT have anything like you are suggesting.

Now, what I can tell you is that the 1949 BOWMAN cards were REPRINTED circa 1988. All 240 cards were printed with WHITE backs.

Take a close look (under magnification) at the bottom of the back of your Larry Doby card. Look for the "Reprint" info that may have been erased.

Also, the other clue that indicates to me that this Doby card may be a reprint, is its top and right borders which are too large.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Rich Klein]

Just a quick note, I finally had some time to go through this thread. I'm going to create the slate listings for the COMC data base and eventually see if we have had to move over. Any help building the checklist is very appreciated.

(Ted, FYI -- I sent you an email about this and what I believe was what happened to Dan's health before his untimely passing.) Let me know via email or PM and any help with both of these is appreciated.

Rich

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Just a quick note, I finally had some time to go through this thread. I'm going to create the slate listings for the COMC data base and eventually see if we have had to move over. Any help building the checklist is very appreciated.

(Ted, FYI -- I sent you an email about this and what I believe was what happened to Dan's health before his untimely passing.) Let me know via email or PM and any help with both of these is appreciated.

Rich

Hi Rich

I don't do PM.....and, I haven't received your email. Please try again, my email is..... tedzan11@comcast.net


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Just a quick note, I finally had some time to go through this thread. I'm going to create the slate listings for the COMC data base and eventually see if we have had to move over. Any help building the checklist is very appreciated.

(Ted, FYI -- I sent you an email about this and what I believe was what happened to Dan's health before his untimely passing.) Let me know via email or PM and any help with both of these is appreciated.

Rich

Hi Rich

I received your email about Dan Paley. Very sad. I've known Dan since 1981. And, interestingly we met over this topic, 1949 BOWMAN's. Danny and I for many years (1984 -2011)
traveled together to Cooperstown to set up at the HOF weekend Show at the VFW Hall. A really interesting guy, who was our local expert regarding BB cards Errors & Variations.

I'll see what I can come up with for you regarding a 1949 BOWMAN checklist of SLATE cards.

Wishing you and your wife very Happy Holidays.

TED Z
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[Bram99]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I am quite surprised at the responses to this thread regarding the fascination with the color error cards found in the set.
I'm working a special set (approx. 40 % complete) comprising of various color errors. Shown here is a sampling of some
of the printing mistakes found in this set.

Feel free to post some of your printing mistakes here.


SLATE Lo # and Hi # cards





PINK and YELLOW cards (Should be RED and ORANGE)




7th sheet SLATE cards (Salkeld and Muncrief normally YELLOW)





TED Z

T206 Reference
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Hey Ted, this is an interesting subset you are collecting.

Anyone attempting to collect an autographed version of each of the 1949 Bowman cards? I just bought some. Not sure how hard that would be to pursue. Tony

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Bram99

Hey Ted, this is an interesting subset you are collecting.

Anyone attempting to collect an autographed version of each of the 1949 Bowman cards? I just bought some. Not sure how hard that would be to pursue. Tony

Hey Tony

Since you asked. Here is a small sample of my autographed 1949 BOWMAN cards. Some of them were signed in person. Others were already autographed, so I cannot vouch for those.

One of the friendliest ballplayers was Johnny Mize. We had a really interesting conversation. I reminded him of the 1952 World Series when he single-handedly beat the Dodgers.
When our conversation ended, he invited me to visit him, if I was ever in the Demorest, Georgia area.

In 1987, on my way to Florida, I stopped by to see Johnny. He was a tremendous guy.
.




TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Bram99]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Tony

Since you asked. Here is a small sample of my autographed 1949 BOWMAN cards. Some of them were signed in person. Others were already autographed, so I cannot vouch for those.

One of the friendliest ballplayers was Johnny Mize. We had a really interesting conversation. I reminded him of the 1952 World Series when he single-handedly beat the Dodgers.
When our conversation ended, he invited me to visit him, if I was ever in the Demorest, Georgia area.

In 1987, on my way to Florida, I stopped by to see Johnny. He was a tremendous guy.
.




TED Z

T206 Reference
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Thanks Ted, and thanks for this thread. I love this set. It's my favorite and I have been collecting it for the past few years. I am nearing completion of a PSA graded set, and I have a bunch of extras of my favorite players, as well as some signed ones, some gray variations, some partial sheet scraps, etc. Next frontier after finishing the 252-card portion of the set is to get the crème and gray variations of the first 72. What a great set to collect!

Tony

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Bram99

Thanks Ted, and thanks for this thread. I love this set. It's my favorite and I have been collecting it for the past few years. I am nearing completion of a PSA graded set, and I have a bunch of extras of my favorite players, as well as some signed ones, some gray variations, some partial sheet scraps, etc. Next frontier after finishing the 252-card portion of the set is to get the crème and gray variations of the first 72. What a great set to collect!

Tony

Your welcome, Tony....it's my pleasure. The 1949 BOWMAN set is my favorite post-WWII set.

The first colorized BB cards I collected in my youth were the 1949 LEAF's. LEAF's 1st series cards were available before the 1949 BOWMAN's.
And, we were thrilled to open a LEAF pack to find Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Jackie Robinson, etc.
Furthermore, the LEAF's were great for "flipping" and/or "scaling".

Then, about a month (or so) later, the 1949 BOWMAN cards were available at our Candy stores. The BOWMAN's included Yankees players that
were not in the LEAF's......like Yogi Berra, Tommy Henrich, Allie Reynolds, Eddie Lopat, and many more. So, I favored the BOWMAN cards.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Bram99]

See Teds answer below, it’s more complete.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Just a quick note, I finally had some time to go through this thread. I'm going to create the slate listings for the COMC data base and eventually see if we have had to move over. Any help building the checklist is very appreciated.
Rich

Hi Rich

Here's my list you requested. It's the result of collecting (and tracking) these elusive SLATE cards since 1981. Listed are 64 cards, and 46 of them are in my 3rd set of 1949 BOWMAN's.
The Hi #s (#145 - 240, plus the 12 variations) are very rare. Many of them are one of a kind. Although, some years ago, I once owned two Duke Snider cards.





I have listed them according to the Series they were printed in...…

1st and 2nd Series (sheets #1 & 2....issued together in certain parts of the country).

Cass Michaels

3rd Series (sheet #3)

75 Eddie Mayo
76 Bill Nicholson
78 Sam Zoldak
80 Bill McCahan
82 Joe Page
83 Bob Scheffing
84 Roy Campanella
87 Randy Gumpert
88 Bill Salkeld
91 Dick Wakefield
93 Ed Stevens
94 Mickey Vernon
97 Danny Litwhiler
98 Phil Rizzuto
102 Stan Spence
103 Dan Tipton
106 Jake Early
107 Eddie Lake

4th Series (sheet #4)

Ed Fitzgerald
111 Red Schoendienst
129 Billy Johnson

5th Series (sheet #5)

163 Clyde McCullough
169 Jeff Heath

6th Series (sheets #6 & 7)

182 Hal Peck
184 Bob Chipman
185 Pete Reiser
186 Buddy Kerr
187 Phil Marchildon
190 Jim Hearn
192 Harry Gumbert
193 Ken Trinkle
194 Ralph Branca
197 Johnny Lindell
198 Steve Gromek
199 Tex Hughson
200 Jess Dobernic
201 Sibby Sisti
202 Larry Jansen
205 Dick Sisler
206 Bruce Edwards
207 Johnny Hopp
210 Joe Gordon
211 Dave Ferriss
212 Ralph Hamner
213 Red Barrett
214 Richie Ashburn
216 Schoolboy Rowe
218 Dick Kryhoski
221 Bob Muncreif
222 Alex Kellner
224 Satchel Paige
225 Gerry Coleman
226 Duke Snider
230 Augie Galan
233 Larry Doby
235 Jim Russell
239 Frank McCormick
240 Babe Young
78 Sam Zoldak **
83 Bob Scheffing **
88 Bill Salkeld **
126 Al Brazle **
127 Hank Majeski **
143 Bob Dillinger **


** .…..these variations were printed on the 7th sheet (refer to Post #35 in this thread for more info regarding them).


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Rich Klein]

Thanks Ted! All in the COMC Database now. I'll do a search to see if we have ever had more than the one card so far ID'd ever sent in which was slate.

Rich

[robinsonmantle]

Great posting and so much great information about this set of cards.

Here are few cards I have.

[The Detroit Collector]

Since this thread has been resurrected

[tedzan]

The source of many of the player's images in the 1949 BOWMAN set are the various Team Photo Packs (25 photos)
issued at the Stadiums in 1948. For example....here's the photo of Paige from my Cleveland Indians Stadium pack.








TED Z

T206 Reference
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[rjackson44]

I have half this set what i will tell you they have gotten very expensive.Great cards guys octavio

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The source of many of the player's images in the 1949 BOWMAN set are the various Team Photo Packs (25 photos)
issued at the Stadiums in 1948. For example....here's the photo of Paige from my Cleveland Indians Stadium pack.








TED Z

T206 Reference
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The 49 Bowman Leroy "Satchell" Paige is his best card, hands down, of all the cards of him ever made. He has other nice cards, but that one is the tops.

[Snowman]

This is an awesome thread! Thanks for sharing, Ted!