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  #351  
Old 02-24-2018, 09:49 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyWonder089 View Post
Apologies if this is not the correct thread for this question, but I didn't want to start a new thread for what is probably a basic question.

My monster number is 1, so my T206 knowledge is very limited. I recently picked up a Bill Clymer in rough shape. I just happened to notice that there appears to be extra bright red spots on his face and hands. I have heard of missing red ink, but never extra red ink? Does anybody have an explanation as to what might cause this discoloration? Does it change any thing from a value standpoint?

Apologies for the photo, I am currently unable to take a decent scan.

Hi

The "redness" that appears on Clymer's cheeks, lips, and left hand varies from card to card. On some Clymer cards it is very faint, while others (like yours) it is more intense.

Good luck on collecting the T206's.


TED Z
.
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  #352  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:03 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts.

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1)

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited)

Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 03-13-2018 at 08:47 PM.
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  #353  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:05 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





522 of the 524 subjects** which comprise a complete T206 set were printed with PIEDMONT backs. The PIEDMONT brand
dominates the T206 population to the tune of 52 - 55%. The following is a complete list of the PIEDMONT cards with respect
to the Series they were printed in.

The SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 sub-set ranks 2nd in this category....as it consists of 469 subjects printed with this back.


PIEDMONT 150

150 Series..................156 subjects


Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Alperman
Ames (hands at chest)
Ames (portrait)
Ball (New York)
Bates
Beaumont
Bell (hands over head)
Bender (portrait)
Bergen (bat)
Birmingham
Bowerman
Bradley (portrait)
Bransfield
Bresnahan (portrait)
Bridwell (portrait-no cap)
M. Brown (Cubs)
M. Brown (portrait)
G. Brown (Chicago Nat'l)
Burch (batting)

Camnitz (arms folded)
Chance (red portrait)
Chase (pink portrait)
Chase (white cap)
Chesbro
Cicotte
Clarke (portrait)
Clarke (bat)
JJ Clarke
Cobb (green)
Cobb (bat on shoulder)
Conroy (fielding)
Coveleski
Crandall (no cap)
Crawford (throwing)
Criger
Criss
Dahlen (Boston Nat'l)
George Davis (Chicago)
Harry Davis (A's)

Delehanty (Washington)
Devlin
Donlin (fielding)
Donlin (seated)
Donohue
Donovan (portrait)
Dooin
Doolin
Dougherty (portrait)
L. Doyle (throwing)
Durham
Elberfeld (New York)
Evers (bat-blue sky)
Evers (portrait)
Ewing
Ferris
Flick
Ganley
Gibson
Gilbert

Goode
Griffith (portrait)
Hahn
Hemphill
Herzog (New York)
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Isbell
Jacklitsch
Jennings (portrait)
Johnson (portrait)
F. Jones (portrait)
F. Jones (hands at hips)
Tom Jones
Jordan (portrait)
Joss (portrait)
Karger
Keeler (portrait)
Keeler (bat)
Killian (pitching)
Kleinow (bat)

Kling
Konetchy (glove high)
Lajoie (portrait)
Lajoie (throwing)
Lake (New York)
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)
Liebhardt
Lindaman
Lobert
Lumley
Lundgren (Cubs)
Magie (portrait)....[ERROR]
Magee (portrait)
Manning (bat)
Marquard (hands at side)
Mathewson (portrait)
Mathewson (white cap)
McGraw (portrait-no cap)
McGraw (pointing)

McIntyre (Brooklyn)
McQuillan (ball in hand)
Merkle (portrait)
Mullin (throwing)
Murphy (throwing)
Nicholls (hands on knees)
Niles
Oldring (fielding)
O'Leary (portrait)
Overall (portrait)
Owen
Parent
Pastorius
Pattee
Pelty (horizontal)
Plank
Powell
Powers
Reulbach (glove)
Ritchey

Rucker (portrait)
Schaefer (Detroit)
Schlei (catching)
Schmidt (throwing)
Schulte (front view)
Seymour (batting)
Shaw (St Louis Nat'L)
Sheckard (no glove)
Shipke
F. Smith (Chicago)
Spade
Spencer
Stahl (no glove)
Steinfeldt (portrait)
Stone
Stovall (portrait)
Sullivan
L. Tannehill (Chicago)
Tenney
Tinker (portrait)

Tinker (hands on knees)
Turner
Waddell (portrait)
Waddell (throwing)
Honus Wagner
Wagner (bat on left)
Wallace
Walsh
Weimer
Doc White (portrait)
Wilhelm (hands at chest)
Williams
Willis (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-no cap)
CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)



** Note......The Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis variations) were printed only with POLAR BEAR backs.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 03-12-2018 at 09:22 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #354  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:06 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

PIEDMONT 350


350-only Series..................Major League subjects = 123

Abstein
Arellanes
Atz
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Beck
Becker
Bender (trees)
Bescher (portrait)
Bliss
Bresnahan (bat)
G. Brown (Washington)
Burns
Bush
Byrne
Campbell
Carrigan
Charles
Collins (A's)
Cree

Dahlen (Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Dineen
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Downey (fielding)
Joe Doyle (NY Nat'L)......[ERROR]
Joe Doyle (New York)
Dubuc
Dunn (Brooklyn)
Dygert
Easterly
Egan
Elberfeld (portrait-Washington)
Engle
Evans
Ferguson
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Fletcher

Fromme
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Gray
Groom
Hartsel
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (St Louis)
Hofman
Howard (Chicago)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hulswitt
Hunter
Jones (Detroit)
Killian (portrait)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Knabe

Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
Laporte
Lennox
Livingstone
Lord
Maddox
Marquard (portrait)
Marshall
Mattern
McAleese
McBride
McCormick
Mc Elveen
McIntyre (Detroit)
McLean
Milan

Miller (Pittsburg)
Mitchell (Cinci)
Moran (Chicago)
Moriarty
Mowery
Mullen (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Myers (fielding)
Nicholls (bat)
Oakes
O'Hara (New York)
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelps
Phillippe
Purtell
Quinn
Raymond

Rhoades (arm extended)
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Rhodes
Rossman
Schmidt (portrait)
Scott
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Stephens
Street (portrait)
Summers
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Thomas
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop

Willett
Wilson
Zimmerman



350-only Series..................Minor League subjects = 86

Abbott
Adkins
Anderson
Armbruster
Arndt
Barger
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch
Beckley
Blackburne
Brain
Brashear
Burchell
Burke
Butler
Carr
Casey
Cassidy
Chappelle
Clark

Clancy
Clymer
Collins (Minneapolis)
Congalton
Cravath
Cross
Davidson
Delehanty
Dessau
Dorner
Downs
Dunn (Baltimore)
Flanagan
Freeman
Ganzel
Grimshaw
Hall
Hallman
Hannifan
Hayden

Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoffman (Providence)
Jackson
Kelley
Kisinger
Kruger
Lattimore
Lavender
Lennox
Lundgren (KC)
Malarkey
Maloney
McGann
McGinley
McGinnity
McGlynn
Milligan
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Providence)

Nattress
Oberlin
O'Brien
O'Neill
Phelan
Pickering
Poland
Puttman
Quillen
Randall
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schlafly
Schreck
Shannon
Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle
Smith (Buffalo)

Strang
Taylor
Thielmann
White (Buffalo)
Wright
Irv Young



Southern League Series..................48 subjects

Bastian
Bay
Bernhard
Breitenstein
Carey
Coles
Cranston
Ellam
Foster
Fritz
Greminger
Guiheen
Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
Helm
Hickman
Hooker
Howard (Savannah)
Jordan (Atlanta)
Kiernan

King
Lafitte
Lentz
Lipe
Manion
McCauley
Miller
Molesworth
Mullaney
Orth
Otey
Paige
Perdue
Persons
Reagan
Revelle
Rockenfeld
Ryan
Seitz
Shaughnessy

Sid Smith (Atlanta)
Smith (Shreveport)
Stark
Thebo
Thornton
Violat
Westlake
White (Houston)



Information on the PIEDMONT 350/460 series and the 460-only series will follow.



TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 03-13-2018 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #355  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:37 PM
Rich Falvo Rich Falvo is offline
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Default

Ted - I think the 350-only minor league list needs Moran (Providence) in place of Maddox.

Thanks for putting together these lists. Great information.
__________________
Looking for most Cycle, EPDG, American Beauty or Tolstoi backs for Providence players.

Successful transactions with Luke, frankbmd, Dougscats, Baseball*Collectibles, Thromdog, Lug-nut, Ronnie73, cammb
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  #356  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:24 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



A sample of 6 subjects from the 350/460 series


Initially, these 63 subjects were printed with PIEDMONT 350 backs. Circa Fall 1910, American Lithographic continued printing these guys with 460 series backs (AB 460,
BL 460, CY 460, LENOX, UZIT, red HINDU, PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42, etc.)
Illustrated here is my concept of the 72-card sheet depicting 66 subjects (including the 6 super-prints). The arrangement of these cards is arbitrary, however it is valid,
as it is based on the fact that all of these cards were printed with the "apple green" SOVEREIGN 350 backs.
Three of these guys (Joe Doyle, Simon Nicholls, Bob Rhoades) were not continued into the 460 series, since their Major League careers had ended.


v.................................... Six super-prints ....................................v









PIEDMONT 350-460


350/460 Series..................63 subjects


Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)

Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 03-15-2018 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #357  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:26 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

350/460 series backs


A picture is worth 1000 words......so, here are the 22 tobacco advertisement backs that are available on the T206 Subjects in the 350/460 Series......


460-type backs




. .

............. Factory #42 .............



350-type backs




Assorted backs






Stay tuned for the PIEDMONT 460-only Series info


TED Z
.
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  #358  
Old 03-13-2018, 08:29 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

460-only series

The 460-only T206 cards were issued in late 1910 thru early 1911. American Lithographic documents appear to place the last T206 press runs in Feb - Mar 1911.
The AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, UZIT, red HINDU, LENOX, and PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 cards were printed in the final press runs of T206's.

Two print runs make up the 460-only series. The 1st group includes the 12 subjects which I refer to as the "Exclusive 12". These 12 guys were printed separately
on their own sheet. I base this hypothesis on several factors. Foremost being that these 12 subjects are the only ones in the 460-only series of 46 subjects found
with the red HINDU backs.

The 2nd group lists the other 34 subjects in this series.


PIEDMONT 460


460-only Series..................46 subjects


Group 1 (Exclusive 12)

Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummel
McGraw (glove at hip)
Pfeffer
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat


Group 2

Abbaticcio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (pitching)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (arms above)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arms at side)
Camnitz (arms over head)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Doyle (portrait)
Frill
Herzog (Boston Nat'l)
Howell (hands at waist)
Lake (with ball)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)

Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Seymour (portrait)
H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)



Illustrated here is my concept of an Exclusive 12 printed sheet....based on American Lithographic's 19-inch wide press.
And a standard size 19" x 24" cardboard sheet.

.. v ............................................ 19" x 24" sheet .............................................v




TED Z
.
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  #359  
Old 03-14-2018, 08:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Falvo View Post
Ted - I think the 350-only minor league list needs Moran (Providence) in place of Maddox.

Thanks for putting together these lists. Great information.

Hi Rich
Thanks for catching the Moran omission.
Haste makes waste when doing lots of "cut-n-paste"

And, thanks for the kind words.


TED Z
.
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  #360  
Old 04-05-2018, 06:59 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206

This T206 trivia quiz, I think may be somewhat tougher than the previous ones on this thread. Unless one of you Net54 T206 geniuses are already aware of it.


There is one (and only one) T206 subject in the set that was not printed with a period after it's team letter Y in it's caption.

Can you identify this T206 subject (and it's pose) ?

First correct answer wins a T206 card.


TED Z
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