Delongs by Lionel Carter

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Posted By: leon

Bruce Dorskind (hi Bruces) sent this to me and asked to post it. I will let him further anymore introduction. Nice article though and much appreciated that he sent it.....

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Posted By: Joe Jones

That was a great Read! Thank you for posting the article.

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Posted By: Chris Counts

Wow! Imagine collecting cards in 1933-34 ... Delongs, Goudeys, Batter-Ups, Diamond Stars, George C. Miller's, U.S. Caramel, Tatoo Orbits, Sports Kings, etc. As far as I'm concerned, the only era that matched it was 1909-11 ... great article!

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Dear Bruces,

When was this article published?

Jodi

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Posted By: peter ullman

Great article...I also am curious about the date of publication...60's-70's? A great era...but give me pre war or give me death!

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Posted By: cmoking

Interesting read. Thanks Bruce & Leon.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Did anyone else catch Carter's "Group of One"-like use of the first-person plural? "...ours was the only complete set known."! It made my...err, OUR...day!

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

We received this article directly from Lionel Carter about 8 years ago.

It first appeared in an old hobby publication, The Sports Hobbyist in the
May-June 1962 issue.

Mr. Carter was a regular contributor to The Sports Hobbyist.

The magazine began publishing in 1958 and was edited by a hobby
legend, Charlie Brooks.

Charlie's associate editor was a young collector named Frank Nagy.

Let us know if you have any additional questions

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: Ralph

Great post & I think after everyone has posted a comment this post belongs in the Archived section,just a thought

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Posted By: barrysloate

Interesting that in this article written in 1962 Carter cites the injustice of Cuyler not being in the Hall of Fame. Six years later, he was inducted.

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Posted By: Doug Allen

First of all thanks for posting the article...it is great.

When it came to auctioning his collection I knew I wanted to purchased one set as a keepsake and constant reminder of this special man and his special collection.

When I had the opportunity to work with Lionel (and Irma) to sell his collection I asked him what his favorite issue was. There was no hesitation...Delong Gum cards. He indicated they were the first set he ever collected and shared an article that mentioned that he was the first to complete the set. That is why we led the auction off with his Delong Gum card set and noted in the title "Lionel's first set"

It was a mid grade VG to VG/EX set but I half expected collectors to pick up on this story and bid it to a ridiculous level.

Fortunately for me they didn't and I was able to purchase it as my own personal keepsake. Lionel was pleased that I ended up with it. I just told him that I was glad he didn't keep it in the same condition as his 38 Goudey "Heads-Up" set or I wouldn't have a chance.

Now I have three things in my collection I will never sell the first card I ever purchased from Dick Ferrel in Ottawa Illinois - T206 Frank Chance Portrait, The Johnny Evers Managers Jersey my wife and kids got me for my 40th birthday and Lionel Carter's 33 Delong gum card set.

The rest as my daughters say is the wedding and college fund...I say it is the back-up plan!

Thanks for listening.

Doug

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Posted By: James Feagin

Doug,

Fun story. However, I think I'll let my children pay for their own college and weddings, it will teach them responsibility

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Posted By: cmoking

I'm not sure, but I may have been the underbidder on that Delong Lionel Carter set.

for more than one reason.

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Posted By: David Vargha

So you bid on a set in your own auction where you didn't have to pay a seller's fee? That sounds like a really crappy way of "doing business" to me.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Doug Allen

David,

I assume you mean buyers premium. I get billed the full amount including the buyers premium and pay the entire amount. I get no advantage over other buyers.

Read rule number 6 in the terms and conditions...it is clearly stated that employees and executives can bid.

If you are not comfortable with this don't bid.

Regards,
Doug

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Posted By: David Vargha

I did mean the BP. If you paid for the BP, then you won it on an even playing field. I do have concerns with employees being able to bid on the auctions, but hopefully there are procedures in place to prevent from happening what the possible appearance of impropriety portrays in such instances.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Doug Allen

David,

There are many procedures in place.

First and foremost we pay the BP.

Additionally, there is no way to see who you are bidding against.

I am confident it is an even playing field except we get the chance to pick up the items and look at them every day...agonizing over how much it is going to cost us.

That part is not fair.

Doug

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Posted By: barrysloate

If the rules clearly state that employees are permitted to bid then Doug did nothing wrong. He is playing by the rules.

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Posted By: Rob

Terrific article! Thanks for sharing it w/us Bruce, along w/the background. Doug, likewise, thanks for sharing your story too!

Rob

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Posted By: cmoking

I'll admit I'm too lazy to bother reading the rules, even when it is pointed out to me. I'll try to remember to read it in the next catalog. It doesn't mean I like the rule though. But I do agree that if I'm not comfortable with it to a certain point, I shouldn't bid at all. The fact is that employees of Mastro do have an advantage, solely by being able to see the cards up close. I understand other people can too by visiting the Mastro offices, but that's not feasible or practical for most people, including myself. Will I change my bidding pattern with Mastro over this? I doubt it. Do I still feel uneasy that I was beat out on a lot by Doug Allen. You betcha.

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Posted By: barrysloate

King- I don't think seeing the cards up close gives them a huge advantage. I'm not sure that's even a hairline advantage. They provide large clear scans and you can call them for more detailed descriptions.

Perhaps having access to who else is bidding on a lot may represent a bit more of an edge.

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Posted By: cmoking

"King- I don't think seeing the cards up close gives them a huge advantage. I'm not sure that's even a hairline advantage."

Barry, I'll disagree with this, but that's just my opinion from a collector's standpoint.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Forgetting about whatever edge the auction house may have, if you feel as a bidder that you are not exactly sure what you are bidding on because you can't see the item in person, how do you bid with confidence? If I felt seeing the item in person was critical, but geography made that impossible, I would probably refrain from bidding.

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Posted By: cmoking

Barry, this is getting off-topic a bit, but what you mentioned is the case with almost every internet purchase I make.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's a reasonable off-topic question, as it is baseball card related.

In theory, every purchase has some risk involved. Granted, buying an SGC 84 as Near Mint lowers your risk to near zero, while buying a raw card on ebay with a funky cut that is offered as Near Mint holds enormous risk.

Even looking at a card in person holds some risk. Some graded cards that appear accurately graded have been tampered with, and sometimes the tampering is invisible to the naked eye. So no purchase is 100% safe.

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Posted By: cmoking

I meant OT for this thread.

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Posted By: John

The only thing that bothers me if you read the rule it states that employees such as Doug who bid on lots and win, can apply the dollar value of the lot towards something called Mastro Points. Only employees get to participate in the Mastro Points program, which really stinks. I wish I could apply my high bids towards awesome prizes like the employees can, but there’s just no way I’d ever have enough for that sweet gold Pulsar watch…


If you read on, these very points can be used to redeem free gifts such as microwave ovens, mountain bikes, flat screen TV’s, IPods, Kayaks and other awesome prizes!




It all kind of makes sense now, when my wife and I met Doug at the Reading show for the first time, he asked me if I wanted to buy a used kayak and mountain bike. He did however say the mountain bike belonged to Cobb so naturally I bought it and its freakin sweet thanks Doug!





P.S. Sorry Doug blowing the lid off this secret Mastro prize for employee bidders program….

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I don't have a problem with a Mastro employee bidding on a Mastro lot as long as no principal of Mastro has any knowledge of the bidders on any given lot. Blind is blind and that's fair to me.

Of course, if for example, Bill Mastro was running around a live auction with a list of bidders on a piece of paper I'd have a problem with that.

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Posted By: Cobby33

I want to be a beneficiary of Doug's college fund.

[1963Topps Set]

It is amazing what hindsight gives us. Mastro employees bidding on Mastro auctions set up shill bidding, yet no one saw that at the time. Carter was scared into selling his collection. Allen can use the money to pay his legal fees, not any school tabs.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Doug Allen

David,

I assume you mean buyers premium. I get billed the full amount including the buyers premium and pay the entire amount. I get no advantage over other buyers.

Read rule number 6 in the terms and conditions...it is clearly stated that employees and executives can bid.

If you are not comfortable with this don't bid.

Regards,
Doug

This worked well.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by Leon

This worked well.

Thanks Leon! That made my morning

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

This worked well.

Can you bid on lots in your auctions? The reason I ask is that I imagine it would be tough to receive an incredibly rare consignment of a set you are collecting.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

Can you bid on lots in your auctions? The reason I ask is that I imagine it would be tough to receive an incredibly rare consignment of a set you are collecting.

Nope, Scott and I can't bid in our own auctions per our rules. For the record I have consigned to different auction houses, many times. I have lost money on some and made on others.....but never, ever shill bid or had someone shill for me. It's bad Karma. If you don't think so I can hook you up with a few guys who will agree with me. But get with me quick as they are about to be out of pocket for a while.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

Nope, Scott and I can't bid in our own auctions per our rules. For the record I have consigned to different auction houses, many times. I have lost money on some and made on others.....but never, ever shill bid or had someone shill for me. It's bad Karma. If you don't think so I can hook you up with a few guys who will agree with me. But get with me quick as they are about to be out of pocket for a while.

I didn't mean shill bid. My question is how do you handle a consignor that wants to auction an item that you want to purchase?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

I didn't mean shill bid. My question is how do you handle a consignor that wants to auction an item that you want to purchase?

I won't say I haven't ever made an offer but I can't remember ever buying anything substantial that was going to be consigned. There have been many things in our auctions I have wanted to bid on. I know who the winner is and I can contact them after the fact. That is about it. I am just glad we haven't had any E221s or E222s consigned. That would sort of suck, for the collector in me.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by Leon

For the record I have consigned to different auction houses, many times. I have lost money on some and made on others.....but never, ever shill bid or had someone shill for me. It's bad Karma. If you don't think so I can hook you up with a few guys who will agree with me. But get with me quick as they are about to be out of pocket for a while.

+1. There's nothing worse than watching an auction count down and having that sick feeling about how much you are losing on a card. But that is part of the hobby. Better to man up and take the loss. You can eventually make up for lost money. Much harder to get back your honor if you lose it...