NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-20-2014, 03:41 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's



Most T205 collectors consider the HINDU's tougher than the DRUM's. To date, there are 25 subjects confirmed with DRUM backs. While there are
19 subjects confirmed with HINDU backs. DRUM and HINDU checklists will follow.
And, this I can state with certainty: T205 DRUM and HINDU cards are mutually exclusive.

How many more T205's yet to be found with HINDU backs is not easily discernable, given the existing back patterns associated with T205 HINDU's.

However, I have a theory regarding the predictability of DRUM cards in the T205 set.

Theory...... the A=B=C=D equation




Apparently, American Lithographic printed American Beauty (Black)...Broad Leaf...Cycle...Drum backs simultaneously on certain T205 subjects.
Research suggests, as many as 32 subjects were possibly printed with DRUM backs in the T205 set.
The key factor in this A=B=C=D equation is the Black American Beauty back. Conversely, a T205 subject with a Green American Beauty back
will NOT be found with a DRUM back.


Here's my original list of 11 predictions Since I proposed these predictions, 4 of them have surfaced with DRUM backs (marked confirmed on list).
So, I'm 4 for 4 (Batting 1.000). Therefore, I'm feeling very confident that my theory is valid.

The remaining 7 guys have been confirmed with the A=B=C pattern. So, I expect these 7 subjects eventually will be discovered with the DRUM
back (completing their A=B=C=D connection).

1......Bates.........confirmed
2......Becker
3......Bergen.......confirmed
4......Evans
5......Herzog
6......Huggins
7......Leach.........confirmed
8......Lobert
9......Paskert......confirmed
10....Phelps
11....Wheat


Having said all that, the intent of this thread is twofold....to inform....and to encourage more worthwhile T205 discussions. Especially, regarding
the tougher front / back combinations (i.e: HINDU's....AMERICAN BEAUTY....BROAD LEAF....CYCLE....DRUM's, etc.).


So, feel free to post your T205's of any variety.....and/or, to chime in with some interesting stories regarding your T205 set or cards.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-20-2014, 04:36 PM
T205 GB's Avatar
T205 GB T205 GB is offline
@ndrew woo.dfin
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,526
Default

Ted the Cycles don't follow the pattern like they do on 206's. I also have a list of Hindu confirmed/possibles I can post of your interested. I have some where a list of the same for Drums but having issues with my desktop where I believe it is.
__________________
Andrew

Member since 2009
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-20-2014, 06:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 HINDU checklist

List of the 19 subjects currently confirmed with HINDU backs (with respect to their Team affiliation)......


New York Giants
-------------------
Leon Ames
Josh Devore
W. R. Dickson


Chicago Cubs
----------------
John Kling
John Pfeister


Cincinnatti Reds
-------------------
Robert Bescher
Richard Egan
Harry Gaspar


Detroit Tigers
----------------
George Simmons
Oscar Stanage


Philadelphia Phillies
-----------------------
Fred Jacklitsch
Sherwood Magee


Washington Senators
-------------------------
Walter Johnson
GeorgeMcBride


Boston Red Sox
-------------------
Clyde Engle


Boston Rustlers
------------------
Bayard Sharpe


Brooklyn Superbas
----------------------
Edgar Lennox


Pittsburg Pirates
--------------------
Albert Leifield


St Louis Browns
-------------------
William Bailey




TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-20-2014, 06:14 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default Hi Andrew

Quote:
Originally Posted by T205 GB View Post
Ted the Cycles don't follow the pattern like they do on 206's. I also have a list of Hindu confirmed/possibles I can post of your interested. I have some where a list of the same for Drums but having issues with my desktop where I believe it is.

I realize that the patterns of the T205 CYCLE's are different than they are with the T206 cards.

But, when the CYCLE's are in partners with the black American Beauty and the Broad Leaf cards for a given T205 subject, then a Drum
will inevitably follow.

And, by all means, please list all of the Drum and Hindu confirmed/possibles you have.


Thanks, ole buddy

TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-20-2014, 07:04 PM
EvilKing00's Avatar
EvilKing00 EvilKing00 is offline
Steve P
Steven Pacc.hiano
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 2,405
Default

Love all the recent t205 threads! If anyone had a hindu or drum they are looking to sell i could be interested
__________________
Successful transactions with: Drumback, Mart8081, Obcmac, Tonyo, markf31, gnaz01, rainier2004, EASE, Bobsbats, Craig M, TistaT202, Seiklis, Kenny Cole, T's please, Vic, marcdelpercio, poorlydrawncat, brianp-beme, mybuddyinc, Glchen, chernieto , old-baseball , Donscards, Centauri, AddieJoss, T2069bk,206fix, joe v, smokelessjoe, eggoman, botn, canjond

Looking for T205's or anything Babe Ruth...email or PM me if you have any to sell.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-20-2014, 08:12 PM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,884
Default

I have a T205 Jake Stahl (Boston Amer) with a Hindu back.

Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-21-2014, 06:24 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's

Steve

Your T205 Jake Stahl is a new HINDU card. This is the 20th confirmed HINDU.

When you can, please post front & back scans of it.


Thanks for this important input,

TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-21-2014, 07:57 AM
Wite3's Avatar
Wite3 Wite3 is offline
Joshua
J0shua Le.vine
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,228
Default

Ted is spot on in his evaluation...the matrix can be further seen at t205resource.com

Drum used to be tougher than Hindu but I suspect the print runs were probably similar. There was a couple of "large" Drum finds (around 20 cards total) a few years back that allowed much of those into the hobby.

I can tell you that there were at least three press runs for Hindu as I have have seen three different Hindu Ames sell during my time. As for Drum, I have only confirmed duplicates of Brown and Quinn...still waiting to confirm a triplicate of those two.

Joshua
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-21-2014, 10:01 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 DRUM checklist

Team affiliation of the 25 subjects currently confirmed with DRUM backs......

New York Yankees
----------------------
James Austin
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Jack Knight
John Quinn
Harry Wolter


Philadelphia Phillies
-----------------------
John Bates
Patrick Moran
George Paskert


Chicago White Sox
----------------------
Russell Blackburne
Frederick Olmstead
Fred Payne


Boston Rustlers
-------------------
George Graham (blue signature)
David Shean


Brooklyn Superbas
----------------------
George Bell
William Bergen


Chicago Cubs
-----------------
Mordecai Brown
Lewis Richie


Cincinnati Reds
------------------
Thomas Downey
Richard Hoblitzell


New York Giants
--------------------
Albert Bridwell
A. Latham


Philadelphia A's
------------------
Briscoe Lord


Pittsburg Pirates
-------------------
Thomas Leach


St Louis Browns
-------------------
George Stone


St Louis Cardinals
---------------------
Frank Corridon




TED Z

Last edited by tedzan; 11-21-2014 at 10:45 AM. Reason: Correct typo.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-21-2014, 10:58 AM
peterb69's Avatar
peterb69 peterb69 is offline
PeterB
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
I have a T205 Jake Stahl (Boston Amer) with a Hindu back.

Steve
Thanks Steve, great find
__________________
Looking for affordable T205 Hoblitzell no stats; also any T206 Drum
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-21-2014, 11:43 AM
whelenfan whelenfan is offline
michael
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: new jersey
Posts: 167
Default

Loving this thread!
__________________
vg-g-f-p t205 set - 54/208
ml subset 4/12
variations - 3
hof'ers - 4
short prints - 3
different backs - 13
cards over $30 - 4
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-21-2014, 04:00 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default Joshua

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wite3 View Post
Ted is spot on in his evaluation...the matrix can be further seen at t205resource.com

Drum used to be tougher than Hindu but I suspect the print runs were probably similar. There was a couple of "large" Drum finds (around 20 cards total) a few years back that allowed much of those into the hobby.

I can tell you that there were at least three press runs for Hindu as I have have seen three different Hindu Ames sell during my time. As for Drum, I have only confirmed duplicates of Brown and Quinn...still waiting to confirm a triplicate of those two.

Joshua

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment.

Regarding the relatively recent two finds of T205 Drum's, that I think you are alluding to. Ron Oser and I were set-up at adjacent booths at
a Philly Show when Ron discovered those cards on his trips to St. Louis. Ron and I were like two kids sorting thru all these T205 (and T206)
Drum cards (which altogether totaled approx. 70 Drum cards)......what a "blast".


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-21-2014 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Correct a typo.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-21-2014, 05:19 PM
T205 GB's Avatar
T205 GB T205 GB is offline
@ndrew woo.dfin
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,526
Default

Ted I remember sitting at the Hilton bar with you in 2010 and talking t205's and this back pattern link and also some other card back list and connections. Hope we can repeat that again this summer. Here is the Hindu list I made about 2 yrs back. I deleted it off the board along with some of my other research. Anyways here's what I have:

I have been researching this set for what seems yrs now. I was leaning towards a theory about the Hindus a while back but needed a few more back confirmations to make the connection factual. Hindus were printed at the 649 Fact, as well as the Hassan 649 back. After a lot of research I noticed that NO Hindu players were found with Hassan Backs even though they were printed in the same factory as each other. I then realized there was another neat thing that all Hindus have the SC black backs only. So if it has a Hassan back then there will be NO Hindu or SC Black back from either factory. None of the AB, BL, Cycle, Drum, or Pied 42 cards can be found with the SC black back from either factory either, but can have SC red fact 25.

These may have not been printed, but they meet all the criteria to be a Hindu print, and there is a list of Confirmed backs below. Also you will see a few Variations listed. I believe the 2 variations listed are the correct card for the back to fall on. This is due the card listed as being the primary card containing the SC Blacks from both factories and the other variation being a type of misprint or correction later on.

Possible
Abbaticchio
Archer
Ball
Birmingham
Bransfield
Ciotte
Daubert
Doughtery-Red Sox Emblem
Duffy
Ford Black Cap
Fromme
Goode
Gray-No Stats
Griffith
Groom
Hoffman
Hummel
Jennings
Killian
LaPorte
Lang
Livingston
Lord
Lush
Maddox
McElveen
McIntyre
McLean
Mitchell
Moriarity
Mullin
Rucker
Schmidt
Scott
Stahl
Thomas
Young

Confirmed
Ames
Bailey
Bescher
Devore
Dickson
Egan
Engle
Gaspar
Jacklitsch
Johnson
Kling
Leifield-A on Front
Lennox
Magee
McBride
Pfiester
Sharpe
Simmons
Stanage

I do hope this will help out in some way and hope to cross off a few in the future to the confirmed list. I would be happy to hear any questions or comments.
__________________
Andrew

Member since 2009
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-21-2014, 07:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default Hey Andrew

Quote:
Originally Posted by T205 GB View Post
Ted I remember sitting at the Hilton bar with you in 2010 and talking t205's and this back pattern link and also some other card back list and connections. Hope we can repeat that again this summer.
The Hilton in Baltimore, I remember that well. I wish all the future National Shows were in Baltimore. Anyhow, we talked T205's quite late
into the night. I think we finally ended talking about our Daughters....your Kadence and Melody, and my Zoe and Debra.
The Good Lord willing, we can continue our conversation this forthcoming Summer.


Thanks for posting all this good stuff regarding T205 HINDU's. I will certainly give it some serious thought.

Incidentally, on your possible list is Stahl, and yesterday Steve D (post #6) identified Stahl with a HINDU back.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-21-2014, 07:43 PM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,884
Default

T205 Stahl Hindu back:



Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-21-2014, 08:00 PM
dog*dirt dog*dirt is offline
Andrew
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 632
Default

Stahl Hindu back:

Very cool!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-21-2014, 08:53 PM
whelenfan whelenfan is offline
michael
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: new jersey
Posts: 167
Default

That is one great card
__________________
vg-g-f-p t205 set - 54/208
ml subset 4/12
variations - 3
hof'ers - 4
short prints - 3
different backs - 13
cards over $30 - 4
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-22-2014, 07:02 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default Thanks Steve......updated HINDU list

List of the 22 subjects currently confirmed with HINDU backs (with respect to their Team affiliation)......


New York Giants
-------------------
Leon Ames
Josh Devore
W. R. Dickson


Cincinnatti Reds
-------------------
Robert Bescher
Richard Egan
Harry Gaspar


Chicago Cubs
----------------
John Kling
John Pfeister


Detroit Tigers
----------------
George Simmons
Oscar Stanage


Philadelphia Phillies
-----------------------
Fred Jacklitsch
Sherwood Magee


Washington Senators
-------------------------
Walter Johnson
GeorgeMcBride


Boston Red Sox
-------------------
Eddie Cicotte
Clyde Engle
Jacob Stahl


Boston Rustlers
------------------
Bayard Sharpe


Brooklyn Superbas
----------------------
Edgar Lennox


Chicago White Sox
--------------------
Hugh Duffy


Pittsburg Pirates
--------------------
Albert Leifield


St Louis Browns
-------------------
William Bailey




TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 08-12-2018 at 04:20 PM. Reason: Added Cicotte to this list.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-23-2014, 04:46 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's

So, you have completed a 208-card set. Your T205 challenge is over with. Or, is it ? No, it's not....the "hunt" must continue, as you become obsessed
with the various T205 backs.
This occurred to me with the T206's many years ago, when I realized a pattern of backs that I refer to as the A-B-C-D connection. Check out this link
for more info on this sub-set. And, for example, here is my A-B-C-D "quadruplicate" sub-set of my favorite T206 Minor Leaguer....Frank Delahanty


.



Recently, I started similar A-B-C-D sub-sets for these four T205 guys.


.


I currently have the AB's for these guys....and, the additional backs shown here. Any help in acquiring the remaining Broad Leaf, Cycle. and Drum
backs to complete the A-B-C-D sub-sets of these 4 subjects is greatly appreciated.

Bergen & Wolter are confirmed with Drum. Huggins & Lobert have yet to be found with the Drum back. However, I firmly believe that they will be.


Hey guys......this is just a alternative sport in the fun of collecting Tobacco cards that I thought may interest some of you.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-25-2014, 01:55 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,199
Default

Hey Ted
Small world. That Wolter Drum used to be my type for the mfg for many years. Nice research and thanks for sharing!! I have shown these so often folks will think they are commoners....

__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 11-25-2014 at 01:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-25-2014, 07:14 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default Hey Leon

That's pretty cool.....it is a small world.

So, maybe your Johnson Hindu will soon be mine


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-29-2014, 09:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's

Some Net54 collectors of T205 cards have in the past complained that there are too many threads on T206's
and very few threads regarding T205 cards. Well, I started this thread in order to "gin up" some interesting
discussions on these cards.
Apparently, there does not seem to be any interest in my suggested "Quadruplicate" sub-sets. So let's switch
over to posting T205 printing errors. Perhaps, that may keep this thread active.

I'll start with my Eddie Collins card with a mis-printed back.

What is quite interesting about this particular card is that it reveals to us that this Collins card was Double-
Printed (horizontally) on its sheet.

.



OK guys.....how's about showing and/or telling us of your T205 anomalies.....or anything T205.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 12-13-2019 at 08:02 AM. Reason: Added imageevent scans.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-30-2014, 06:31 AM
EvilKing00's Avatar
EvilKing00 EvilKing00 is offline
Steve P
Steven Pacc.hiano
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 2,405
Default

1 - Archer - Hard to tell from the bad scan, but hes got 4 eyes
2 - Tannehill - has a sunburn
3 - Bailey - pink baseline
4 - Ball - missing red ink


001.jpg
__________________
Successful transactions with: Drumback, Mart8081, Obcmac, Tonyo, markf31, gnaz01, rainier2004, EASE, Bobsbats, Craig M, TistaT202, Seiklis, Kenny Cole, T's please, Vic, marcdelpercio, poorlydrawncat, brianp-beme, mybuddyinc, Glchen, chernieto , old-baseball , Donscards, Centauri, AddieJoss, T2069bk,206fix, joe v, smokelessjoe, eggoman, botn, canjond

Looking for T205's or anything Babe Ruth...email or PM me if you have any to sell.

Last edited by EvilKing00; 11-30-2014 at 06:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-30-2014, 06:46 AM
Econteachert205 Econteachert205 is offline
D3nn!s B@!!ou
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,897
Default

Paddy and Howie are missing gold at the top. Wish I could help with the ABCD stuff!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg paddhow.jpg (75.0 KB, 752 views)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-30-2014, 08:04 AM
dog*dirt dog*dirt is offline
Andrew
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 632
Default

That LaPorte is great Dennis.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7.jpg (31.2 KB, 751 views)
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-01-2014, 04:16 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's

Steve and Andrew

Thanks for posting your T205's.....very interesting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Econteachert205 View Post
Paddy and Howie are missing gold at the top. Wish I could help with the ABCD stuff!
Dennis

I haven't seen "missing gold" T205's in ages. Thanks for posting your's.

The ABCD stuff.... Dennis, I think I'm probably the only dude on this forum that finds such esoteric back combinations interesting.

I'm picking up a CYCLE back for this Lobert A-B-C-D combo. And, although the DRUM version of Lobert is unknown, I'm certain it will appear.

I'm happy that I have the BROAD LEAF back, because in my opinion the BROAD LEAF (black) backs are as scarce as the DRUM backs.



................




TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-01-2014, 09:59 PM
AddieJoss AddieJoss is offline
Cory
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Windermere, FL
Posts: 802
Default Drum backs

Austin in a PSA 3
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (77.0 KB, 712 views)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-01-2014, 10:01 PM
AddieJoss AddieJoss is offline
Cory
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Windermere, FL
Posts: 802
Default Latham

Latham..With a drum
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (74.6 KB, 713 views)
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-01-2014, 10:22 PM
AddieJoss AddieJoss is offline
Cory
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Windermere, FL
Posts: 802
Default Pfeister

Hindu
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (77.2 KB, 708 views)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-01-2014, 10:24 PM
AddieJoss AddieJoss is offline
Cory
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Windermere, FL
Posts: 802
Default Engle

Hindu
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (76.7 KB, 712 views)
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 12-02-2014, 01:43 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default AddieJoss

Hi Cory

Great cards....thanks for posting your DRUM's and HINDU's.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-03-2014, 07:26 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's

Here's another mis-print, this one tells us that John Titus and Tony Smith were adjacent cards on this printed sheet.






TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-04-2014, 01:33 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 Minor Leaguers

Knowledgeable T205 collectors believe that the T205 Minor Leaguers were printed late in 1911 (or 1912) based on the bios of 8 of these subjects. According to my T205 Exclusive 12 theory
there is a high probability that these 12 subjects were printed on a sheet of their own separate from the other 196 subjects in the T205 set.







However, the aesthetic design of these 12 cards is very similar to American Lithographic's (ALC) non-sports cards of 1911....such as the Military Series cards depicted here.

T80 examples
. .
. .

We have actual proof from an ALC ledger that the T80's were issued as early as Feb 1911. And, a T80 and a T206 were both inserted in Cigarette packs in that timeline.
Furthermore, was the artwork for the Minor Leaguers created by the same artist that created the T80's early in 1911 ?

But, for whatever reasons the Minor Leaguers were then shelved until very late in 1911, when these 12 guys were printed and issued.

Personally, I favor the design of these Minor Leaguers over the design of the 196 - T205 Major Leaguers.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 06-06-2020 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Added imageevent scans.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-04-2014, 01:43 PM
Econteachert205 Econteachert205 is offline
D3nn!s B@!!ou
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,897
Default

Since the t206 sheet threads have been so huge I was wondering when the 05s would get some love. I especially would want to know because of the nature of the sp's and how the sheets were put together. Thanks for all the work Ted!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-04-2014, 01:56 PM
bn2cardz's Avatar
bn2cardz bn2cardz is offline
₳₦ĐɎ ₦ɆɄ฿ɆⱤ₮
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Default

It would be a great help if PSA would start showing love to the t205 set. They still just label them as Gold Border (same as t207 being listed only as 'brown background'). They don't indicate back advertisements not alone factory like they do with t206. That would really help. For this reason I wouldn't get any t205 or t206 graded with PSA anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-04-2014, 06:50 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 Minor Leaguers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Econteachert205 View Post
Since the t206 sheet threads have been so huge I was wondering when the 05s would get some love. I especially would want to know because of the nature of the sp's and how the sheets were put together. Thanks for all the work Ted!

Dennis

I appreciate the compliment.

Regarding printed sheet arrangements, illustrated here is my hypothetical simulated sheet of 48 cards of the Minor Leaguers. I could expand this format to as many as 108 cards
that would fill-out a standard 18" x 24" size sheet that was used by American Lithographic for their small size lithographic projects in that era.

Note that this arrangement is only 48 cards due to the 18 image limitation on Net54 posts.















TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 12-13-2019 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Added imageevent scans.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-04-2014, 07:36 PM
EvilKing00's Avatar
EvilKing00 EvilKing00 is offline
Steve P
Steven Pacc.hiano
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 2,405
Default

That handford card still bothers me, with the red background. Why is he the only one? Some responded cause of the team. Hes the inly jersey guy, could be. Where there supposed to be more jersey guys? Probably. Love the mystery as well as the beauty if the set.
__________________
Successful transactions with: Drumback, Mart8081, Obcmac, Tonyo, markf31, gnaz01, rainier2004, EASE, Bobsbats, Craig M, TistaT202, Seiklis, Kenny Cole, T's please, Vic, marcdelpercio, poorlydrawncat, brianp-beme, mybuddyinc, Glchen, chernieto , old-baseball , Donscards, Centauri, AddieJoss, T2069bk,206fix, joe v, smokelessjoe, eggoman, botn, canjond

Looking for T205's or anything Babe Ruth...email or PM me if you have any to sell.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-05-2014, 03:31 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's

The following is a list of the Black ink AMERICAN BEAUTY subjects that I'm aware of in the T205 set.

I have 32 confirmed listed here....however, I have been informed that there are 33.
Please check out this list and tell me who the 33rd guy is.

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert
Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter


Thanks much,

TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-05-2014, 11:44 PM
T205 GB's Avatar
T205 GB T205 GB is offline
@ndrew woo.dfin
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,526
Default

Ted I have 32 on my list also. Not sure who said there are 33. I may be wrong though.
__________________
Andrew

Member since 2009
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-06-2014, 12:29 PM
CW's Avatar
CW CW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,478
Default

Interesting thread on a great, underrated set. Thanks for posting all the cards, guys.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 12-06-2014, 01:46 PM
bn2cardz's Avatar
bn2cardz bn2cardz is offline
₳₦ĐɎ ₦ɆɄ฿ɆⱤ₮
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
The following is a list of the Black ink AMERICAN BEAUTY subjects that I'm aware of in the T205 set.

I have 32 confirmed listed here....however, I have been informed that there are 33.
Please check out this list and tell me who the 33rd guy is.

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert
Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter


Thanks much,

TED Z
.
I apologize if that was from my signature. It was a typo I noticed after reading your post. My spread sheet has 32.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-07-2014, 06:19 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default Hi Andy

I was told of a possible 33rd AB (black ink) card from an old T205 collector friend of mine.

Also, I had noticed that you had "33" noted in your signature, so I was wondering if there are 33 - T205's with this back.


Andrew W. and Andy N.

Thanks for confirming the 32 number.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 12-07-2014 at 06:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-07-2014, 09:58 AM
AddieJoss AddieJoss is offline
Cory
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Windermere, FL
Posts: 802
Default

Are there also a total of 32 total Broadleaf backs?
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-07-2014, 12:03 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default BROAD LEAF cards

The following 32 subjects have been confirmed with the BROAD LEAF back.

Note that this list is exactly identical to the previously listed black ink AMERICAN BEAUTY backs (in Post #38).

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert
Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:33 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default More T205 fun....playing the name-game....QUINN-tuplicate subset

You can call me a "nut", but here is another challenge. If you have achieved the aforementioned "quadruplicate" sub-set for a given T205 subject (Post 19), then extend it
to a "Quintuplicate" sub-set by adding a moderately tough SWEET CAPORAL (Factory #42) card to this group to achieve this 5-card series.
All 32 subjects that are possible with DRUM backs will invariably be found with this red colored SWEET CAP back.


-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------



Of course, it goes without saying, the real challenge in this game is to find Jack Quinn's BROAD LEAF and DRUM cards.



I first started collecting this pattern with my T206's. My favorite T206 image is the blue Chase; and, I have been searching for 34 years for the DRUM
to complete this Quintuplucate sub-set. However, no DRUM card of the blue Chase has ever been confirmed. I'm beginning to wonder if this Hal Chase
card was ever printed with a DRUM back.







TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 06-04-2020 at 08:45 PM. Reason: Added imageevent scans.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-08-2014, 08:55 PM
T205 GB's Avatar
T205 GB T205 GB is offline
@ndrew woo.dfin
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,526
Default

Just got out my miscut fronts and ghost today

Paskert ghost
Stone MC front top w/AB back
Gaspar/Gaspar
Bescher top MC
Street/Bresnahan mouth closed
Richie vert MC
Titus/Beck vert MC
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (75.5 KB, 669 views)
__________________
Andrew

Member since 2009

Last edited by T205 GB; 12-08-2014 at 09:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-09-2014, 07:13 AM
bn2cardz's Avatar
bn2cardz bn2cardz is offline
₳₦ĐɎ ₦ɆɄ฿ɆⱤ₮
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Default

Since there are some errors showing up, here is what I have retained:



Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-09-2014, 08:29 AM
Econteachert205 Econteachert205 is offline
D3nn!s B@!!ou
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,897
Default

The 32 cards previously mentioned... would they be considered as to have been printed more than the others in the set, or does their having been printed with so many different backs not effect production runs as they simply had smaller numbers with more backs?
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-10-2014, 03:00 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default Dennis

Typically, for any one of these 32 subjects, the total sum of their AB + BL + CY + DR backs is approx. 10 % of the total card count of a given subject.
Therefore, my answer to your question is that these 32 were not printed more than any of the other 176 subjects in the T205 set.


................... tough ..................................... rare ....................................... tough ...............................…. very rare





TED Z

Last edited by tedzan; 06-03-2020 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-11-2014, 06:22 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default Hey Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilKing00 View Post
That handford card still bothers me, with the red background. Why is he the only one? Some responded cause of the team. Hes the inly jersey guy, could be. Where there supposed to be more jersey guys? Probably. Love the mystery as well as the beauty if the set.

Hanford should have been captioned with Montreal (instead of Jersey City). It's an error card, both in Team and in color.









TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 12-13-2019 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Added imageevent scans.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1936 Goudey R322 front/back combos DaveW Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 30 08-09-2023 08:53 AM
T205 Drum/Hindu question peterb69 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 11-19-2012 03:33 PM
T205 Joss & T205 Latham Drum back on ebay Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 10 08-24-2005 04:31 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:21 PM.


ebay GSB