1962 Post Canadian Baseball Card Production

[LuckyLuke]

Dan...I truly appreciate the time and patience that you have afforded all those who share in the same passion for the hobby, and in particular , this beautiful set of cards. I have had the good fortune of being able to have dialogue with you concerning this set and your knowledge on these US and Canadian sets is absolutely astounding!!!

I wanted to know more about the rarity of full panel uncut sheets, and in particular, how were these cards originally distributed in the boxes? Quantity per box?

As for individual cards...I know of 3 variations of the Mickey Mantle #5 card...A...B...C variations. Can you speak to the scarcity of the 3 variations?

Finally, is grading these cards more a personal preference or instead necessary, to keep valuations high on rare examples.

Thanks again for your time and passion...and please let me know how I can get my hands on your book..NORTHERN EXPOSURE..

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by LuckyLuke

As for individual cards...I know of 3 variations of the Mickey Mantle #5 card...A...B...C variations. Can you speak to the scarcity of the 3 variations?

I am very curious to hear your thoughts on the scarcity of the Mantle variations as well. I have four different (one of the 153 hits is perforated on the bottom and one is not). The 163 "4th time" was by far the hardest and most expensive for me to acquire. Fortunately, it is also the nicest of the ones I have.

[keepmeposted]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the kind remarks and inquiries. With regard to cereal variety and the number of cards assigned to each panel, I am simply going to paste a table from the table appearing in NORTHERN EXPOSURE. Hopefully, the MSWord table electrons are compatible with the architecture of this wonderful forum. Here goes ...

TABLE A
CEREAL PACKAGE POPULARITY AND CARD ALLOCATION

KEY TO ABBREVIATIONS
POP = Popularity; SIZE = Ounces; CPB = Cards Per Box Panel;
NBR DIFF = Total Cards Per Variety; SPs = Single Prints;
MPs = Multiple Prints

POP CEREAL VARIETY SIZE CPB NBR DIFF SPs MPs
1 Sugar Crisp - 6 48 38 10
2 Alpha-Bits 10 7 42 36 6
3 Alpha-Bits 7 5 15 12 3
4 Bran Flakes 14 7 28 24 4
5 Grape-Nuts Flakes 12 7 28 24 4
6 Oat Flakes 9 5 15 12 3
7 Grape-Nuts - 4 16 12 4
8 Bran Flakes 8 5 15 12 3
9 Grape-Nuts Flakes 7 5 15 12 3

Okay, the data is all there -- although the formatting is a little skewed. However, now you can see the card allocation construct used in the promotion.

In addressing the issue of the relative scarcity of the 3 Mantle cards, I am going to take the lazy way out and, once again, just paste a paragraph out of the book. Hitting you with the "bottom line" first, the easiest Mantle is the familiar cut-along-blue-lines gray cardboard Bran Flakes 14 oz. Next is the perforated Sugar Crisp insert panel, remembering the consumer couldn't actually see which panel he got until opening the box. The toughest is the heavy white cardboard Grape Nuts version, based on the overall undesirability (to kids) of the nuggets. Here are my explanatory notes from the book:

Although individual hobbyists may argue about the precise order of cereal popularity, most serious Post collectors would agree that the 48 single print cards printed on the back of Oat Flakes, Grape-Nuts, Bran Flakes (8 oz.), and Grape-Nuts Flakes (7 oz.) are the most challenging to acquire. However, even within each of the cited four cereal varieties and sizes, the degree of scarcity seems to accompany the caliber of the multiple print star and his availability on more popular variety and size cereals. Using the Roger Maris scenario discussed in Section 4, the Grape-Nuts version of his card was undoubtedly purchased the least of the three opportunities. This trend likely accounts for the extreme difficulty in locating panel mates Ed Bouchee, Smoky Burgess, and Carl Warwick. Mickey Mantle also provides a parallel example of this phenomena, wherein the Grape-Nuts version of his card was frequently left gathering dust on grocer’s shelves. Bran Flakes (14 oz) commanded high consumer popularity, and even the hidden perforated panel slipped into Sugar Crisp would not deter young kids from prodding their mothers to acquire the brown sugar coated puffs. This trend likely accounts for the relative scarcity of “The Mick’s” Grape-Nuts panel cohorts, Lenny Green, Don Schwall, and Luis Aparicio. Each of these cards are tough to locate, let alone in excellent or better condition.

Finally, my thoughts about professionally grading uncut panels and cards... I am VERY old school, having been a baseball card enthusiast for over 50 years. As a complete set collector (1951-1969, Bowman, Topps, Post, JELL-O, food issues, etc.) and archivist (advertisements, in-store promotions, original copy art, wrappers, original card artist/graphic renderings), I have no interest in slabbed cards or sheets. HOWEVER, my perspective is that if having professionally graded cards and uncut sheets enhances your hobby enjoyment, go for it! In my case, the only 2 slabbed cards I have ever purchased were the 1963 Fleer checklist and 1952T J. Robinson -- purchased on eBay to complete sets. Within hours of receipt, I busted them out of their plastic coffins, and gave them room to breathe with the rest of their buddies in museum quality 9 and 8 pocket sheets. I have seen some professionally graded Post and JELL-O cards that defy understanding, including some (of which I kept images) that couldn't differentiate between 1963 Post and 1963 JELL-O cards. So, if you wish to expend the money to have your Post cereal cards and panels graded and slabbed, I wish you well and enjoyment.

I hope I've answered your questions. If you are interested in acquiring the updated opus on the 1962P Canadian baseball card set, please send a note to me at my e-mail address. As Paul and many others know, I have the book printed at Staples on an "as ordered" basis. My days of underwriting the expense for a moderate-sized run of bound monographs are far past me, so the per unit cost ($40) plus USPS priority shipping ($5) is expensive. Folks need to remember that the books are labors of love completely researched, written, and developed (with color photos) at home. They are written by a collector for collectors, who have a passionate desire to comprehensively delve into the Post cereal promotions.

I hope this helps for those inquiring about the nuances and idiosyncrasies of this incredible set!

[LuckyLuke]

Hello Dan..as always thank you for sharing all your knowledge. Opens the window to the past for those who were too young to collect these pieces of history as they came to market.

Can you speak to the scarcity of seeing full panels(6 player) examples, have collectors been acquiring singles rather than full panels? Did all cards come in panels of 6...3....? I apologize if you have answered this question already.

Finally, I know you are a passionate collector and the value in your collection can only be measured by the shear enjoyment that it brings you, but can you speak to the market valuations on these Canadian issues as compared to the US issues? Have the price guides properly accounted for scarcity...condition...etc.

Lat question for you Dan...have you seen many full 6 player panels...in tact? Specifically...I have a 6 player panel which has Mantle, Friend, Wynn, Skinner, Smith, Kluszewski... Can you let me know where this came from? Are these rare...in great condition...?

Thanks again for all your time and knowledge....Paul.

[keepmeposted]

Paul --

The number of cards per panel vary, depending on the variety and size of the cereal box. The boxes of 14 oz. Bran Flakes, 12 oz. Grape Nuts Flakes, and 10oz. Alpha-Bits displayed 7 cards per panel. The boxes of 8 oz. Bran Flakes, 7 oz. Grape Nut Flakes, 7 oz. Alpha-Bits, and 9 oz. Oat Flakes displayed 5 cards per panel. The boxes of Grape Nuts had 4 cards per panel, and the Sugar Crisp perforated insert panels were exclusively in 6 card sheets. [NOTE: In those cases where you see 3 card perforated sheets, they are simply Sugar Crisp panels that were separated by collectors.]

The number of surviving 1962P Canadian baseball card panels visible to the hobby since 1980 is miniscule. I have seen only one (1) complete box panel (which includes the promotion block) in 35 years. If I recall correctly, this is in the possession of Mike Tiry, who sent me a nice color copy of the 14 oz. Bran Flakes panel featuring Johnny Blanchard and Robin Roberts. The perforated Sugar Crisp complete (i.e. intact) panels I have seen offered number about 20. I have 6 of the 8 Sugar Crisp panels in my possession, and full-sized color copies of the remaining 2 -- including the Whitey Ford Los Angeles Dodgers error. My opinion is that a pristine (stone cold mint) condition uncut Sugar Crisp panel would be valued four (4) times greater than the market price for each individual mint perforated card.

This leads to the question: What is the "right" value for individual 1962P Canadian baseball cards? Since my first edition of NORTHERN EXPOSURE in 1996, I have evaded making this determination. I came up with a formula, called the Mabey Price Primer (MPP), that attempted to extrapolate "then-priced" values of U.S. 1962 Post baseball cards and factor true scarcity (cereal box variety/size, single prints, player-to-panel (PTP) pairings, etc.) of the 1962P Canadian baseball cards. What was my conclusion in 1996, and now in 2014? The bilingual NM to EX+ condition English-French cards are VASTLY undervalued. Of course, the ultimate determinant of value is what a person is willing to pay. The evolution of eBay has destroyed my 50 year collector value construct, as I see people paying jaw-dropping amounts for the super tough cards. I honestly cannot comment on the reliability of current price guides, because I haven't bothered to see one in 8 years. When I was very active in the hobby in the late 1970s through early 1990s, I knew many of the respected and high-profile dealers and collectors that Beckett, SCD, and Canadian Sportscard Collector relied upon in publishing values and market trends. With eBay and various high profile auction houses, I couldn't even begin to assess (or justify?) the knowledge, mental stability, or motivation, of buyers. All I know is what I would be willing to pay for a Post or JELL-O card, based on the factual and logically interpreted data accumulated over the past 35 years.

OK -- I'll shut up now. You're probably regretting asking the questions! Have fun collecting and acquiring the cards you love. Remember, it's a hobby -- it's supposed to be a diversion from the stresses of life, not place a greater burden on your shoulders.

KEEPMEPOSTED! Dan.

[LuckyLuke]

Dan...I would like to purchase your book...can you please tell me how to proceed? Thank you.

Also, you mentioned the Whitey Ford error card. Can you tell me how to recognize that error card. In your opinion is this the most rare card of the Canadian set?

As for value...it is quite confusing....But if I use the general consensus out there(Guide)..I see a stat(153 hits) Mantle in very good condition is valued at $250...but this was an out of date publication. Is this anywhere in the ball park? The Whitey Ford error card in contrast would be valued at?

PS...like you stated...keep in mind that price is ultimately determined by what the buyer wants to pay for an item.

Thanks again.

[toppcat]

Dan:

The only possible connection I can find is from a 1971 OPC Bazooka Hockey box, where the printers initials (JHL or HJL) appear on a flap:



I asked Bobby Binder (Vintage Hockey Collector) about what the initials might stand for but he didn't know and I have not had much time to pursue it since. Since it's a box and Canadian, maybe that is an avenue to pursue. I would think the firm was in the Toronto/London area.

My original blog post on it is here: http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/se...&max-results=7

[keepmeposted]

Gents:

For those who may be running out of challenges to pursue, you might enjoy finding and thumbing through the LIFE Magazine CANADIAN issue featuring Liz and Richard. By a show of hands, how many of you knew, and have in your collection, the Maris/Mantle Canadian insert variations? [See image below to identify that this is a trick question, in part.]

KEEPMEPOSTED

[ricktopps]

Dan,
I am relatively new to collecting 1962 Canadian Post, but am down to about 15 of the very expensive short prints. I recently heard about your well researched book and my understanding is that you have some of these for sale. Do your books just cover 1962 Canadian Post or do you also have books dealing with the other Jello and Post sets from 1961 to 1963. I think I would be interested in purchasing whatever you have, but it was a little unclear to me what your asking price is. If you could forward any information that you have for me and tell me how to get the money to you I would greatly appreciate it.
Rick Johnson

[irv]

Originally Posted by ricktopps

Dan,
I am relatively new to collecting 1962 Canadian Post, but am down to about 15 of the very expensive short prints. I recently heard about your well researched book and my understanding is that you have some of these for sale. Do your books just cover 1962 Canadian Post or do you also have books dealing with the other Jello and Post sets from 1961 to 1963. I think I would be interested in purchasing whatever you have, but it was a little unclear to me what your asking price is. If you could forward any information that you have for me and tell me how to get the money to you I would greatly appreciate it.
Rick Johnson

What are the 15 very expensive short prints cards?

I have some pics in my Net54 picture link below of some 62 Post cards I own, although I don't think any fall into that category?