PSA non-grading of T204's and a T205 question

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

This is my first post here. I was very pleased to come across this forum - I've gotten back into collecting tobacco cards after a ten-year hiatus and have learned a lot by reading the different posts.

I recently submitted a group of 7 T204's to PSA and was a bit disappointed to get 2 of them back unholdered as "evid. trim" (I'm including scans of them below). If these are trimmed, it's debatable - it can't be more than 1/32" and that could be chalked up to 1909 machinery... No recourse with PSA, of course, but I'm unconvinced of their decisions. My skepticism was increased by the grades the other 5 cards got: the one that got a 6 is, to my eyes, clearly not as good as one that a 5 (the others were 2 5's and a 4).

Suppose I'll have to chalk this up to, er, experience. As a general question: I have 2 T205's with American Beauty backs that are slightly narrower than "regular" T205's. What I've read about T206's indicates that this is normal. Does that also apply to T205's? Would PSA have a clue?

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Posted By: scott brockelman

bill, don't feel like the lone ranger, psa is very unpredictable. especially on t204's as they are so thin, there is not much stock to really check the edge for trim signs, they do it more by "gut instinct". your cards appear to be 100% legit, they are fully sized and show all the signs of normal wear. they are also very tough and inconsistent on t204 grading, i have nearly 250 graded ramly's and many of the 3's & 4's that were graded lately are much nicer than the 5 & 6's of a year ago, and the 6's you get now would have been 7's back then. better not give them too much trouble i have 60 more at psa right now.

do you have any ramly's for sale or trade, i am especially interested in any with TTT backs.

also you are correct on t205's american beauties, slightly narrow than the others, just like t206 american beauties.

scott

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Scott -

Thanks for your insight about the grading and the American Beauty backs. Anyone with 250 Ramly's has my undying envy. I'd love to know how you put this collection together.

I have a mere 10 myself: Geo. Howard (PSA 6); McLean, Sebring, Schekard (PSA 5's); Moran (PSA 4); Schaefer, Schlei and Thomas (all ungraded and in lesser conditions) and the PSA-rejected Ferris and Street. They all have the usual Ramly backs. I don't think I'd sell them, but would consider trades - I have scans of all the cards, if you're interested.

Are you by any chance the owner of the http://www.ramly.com domain? There's nothing but a homepage there, but the description sounds intriguing. It made me think of a collector I used to know named Bob Mazzeo who would exhibit at the annual GSBCC shows in Wilmington, MA; he had a nearly complete collection of T204's in great condition. I picked up several of my Ramlys from him.

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Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

Looks like this domain was registered by a non collector.

www.combustioninc.com

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Posted By: scott brockelman

jaime & bill the site is not mine, i do know who's it is however, and suffice it to say, they do indeed have THE worlds greatest ramly collection. if and when then put up the site, you will be amazed. i have to admit my t204 set takes a second place finish to theirs, we both have entirely graded psa sets, but again they out class me with a bunch of high end cards, my set averages close to psa 6 exmt, i would bet theirs is close to 8. they also have a complete set of ramly square frame cards, at least to this point, of the 6 known, someone has also confirmed the george howard square frame as evidenced by bob lemke's addition to the 2002 scd. they may well own it as well, i have the six square frames all psa graded as well, but no howard, again mine pale in comparison. i do however have a few more different TTT backs then they, at least at last count, they were in the low 20's and i just got my 28th different.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

bill, you have a nice start to the t204 set, anyone with 10 is nothing to scoff at. at the national it's rare to see even one dealer with 10. i started by purchasing a group many years ago, then small groups or singles, and have bought a couple of sets in the last 12 months to upgrade with and resold one set and many singles and am getting another set ready to sell. if you are ever looking to add to your group i have many graded and ungraded ones available for sale. the only cards i would be looking to trade for or buy are the ones with TTT backs, if you ever come across one and want to sell it let me know.

scott

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Thanks again, Scott. I'm chipping away at the T204 set - every one's a small victory. Does your website have the complete list of cards you have for sale?

BTW, I found out recently that the location of "Factory 456, 3rd District, State Of Mass.", owned by the Mentor Co. (issuer of Ramly cigarettes), is within spitting distance of me in Boston. The company's long, long gone, of course. If the factory's where I think it was, there's now a row of triple-decker houses there. A small shrine would be appropriate...

Also, the sites of the former Goudey Gum Company and U.S. Caramel are close by in East Boston, near the airport.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Thanks again, Scott. I'm chipping away at the T204 set - every one's a small victory. Does your website have the complete list of cards you have for sale?

BTW, I found out recently that the location of "Factory 456, 3rd District, State Of Mass.", owned by the Mentor Co. (issuer of Ramly cigarettes), is within spitting distance of me in Boston. The company's long, long gone, of course. If the factory's where I think it was, there's now a row of triple-decker houses there. A small shrine would be appropriate...

Also, the sites of the former Goudey Gum Company and U.S. Caramel are close by in East Boston, near the airport.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

actually my meager little web site has only a few ramly's listed right now, i have quite a few others, but i am waiting to get the group back from psa to sort a set and then list all the other dupes. i will be glad to get you a complete accurate list in about 2 weeks. if you don't hear from me. send me an email and remind me. scottbrockelman@msn.com my website is http://www.sb1.50megs.com