Help with an old Indoor Baseball photo

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Posted By: Keith

I picked up this vintage cabinet photo recently. The photo states: Y.M.C.U. Indoor Base-Ball Club. Then it listes the 9 players and the manager. From what I understand Indoor baseball is evolved into modern day softball and was invented in around 1885 for play by firehouses. According to my research the term indoor baseball gave way to Diamond ball or kitten ball in around 1895. Am I correct that this photo dates between 1885 and 1895? I believe YMCU stands for Young Men's Catholic Union, but I need to research that group further. Any help with this one? I know you guys are the most knowledgeble on dating uniforms, etc. I was pretty impressed by the size of the ball compared to the slim nature of the bats.
thanks
Keith

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Posted By: davidcycleback

If it's from the 1800s, it would most probably be from the 1890s. The pleated pants were worn in the 1890s, and the mount color and style is consistant with the decade.

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Posted By: T E

I don't know if that is technically a cabinet, and there are plenty here who will be able to help re uniform, but your dating sounds right based on the antique photos I've handled in the past.

Very cool photo! Someone smarter than me will be along soon to help you.

There is a thread on eBay discussion board "Photography" that explains the definitions of the various types of photos, I've used it in the past, if you search for my ebay name, hoofaway, on that board's inner search engine, the thread should pop up.

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Posted By: T E

David got there before I typed my response...that is why this board is great!

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Posted By: barrysloate

It looks like it could be a tad later. If you hadn't posted any date, I would have guessed around 1900-05. But either way, it's in the ballpark.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

You could be correct Barry. Definitely 1890s-very early 1900s range.

The pleated 'down winter coat' pants on a baseball player almost always dates him to 1890s to very early 1900's.

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Posted By: Joe D.

what the heck is indoor baseball?

and is that an actual ball? it is huge.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I'm no indoor baseball historian, but I beleive it was played inside a gym. The winter version when there was snow outside.

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Posted By: Joe D.

or those guys are oompa loompas.

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Posted By: Joe D.

just googling indoor baseball and.....

An "off-season" experiment known as "The National Professional Indoor Baseball League" debuted in November to poor reviews. Headed by president Tris Speaker, the league boasted ten clubs, one in each Major League city except Washington. Unfortunately, the novel concept of playing baseball indoors during the winter months failed miserably at the ticket gates and the league was disbanded within a month.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/yearly/yr1939n.shtml

and


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,762905,00.html

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Posted By: Keith

exerpt from: http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/ahb_historyCD.cfm?a=Y000280

The invention of indoor baseball is credited to George Hancock, a reporter for Chicago Board of Trade, who in 1887 started the game on an old winter day at the Farragut Boat Club.

Popularly known as softball, indoor baseball is really a variant of outdoor version of the game. Hancock introduced 19 special rules that were exclusive to indoor baseball. The Mid Winter Indoor Baseball League of Chicago officially adopted these rules in 1889.

The real impetus for the game, however, came from a fireman from Minneapolis -Louis Rober- who kept his firemen fit by having them play indoor baseball. The game became popular overnight and other fire companies began to play. In 1895, Rober transferred to another fire company and organized a team he called the Kittens.

After being recognized by several names such as ‘Kitten ball’ and ‘Diamond ball’, Walter Hakanson, a Denver YMCA official finally suggested the name softball, which stuck for good.

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, The American Sports Publishing Company headed by Albert Spalding published a series of “guides” some of which were aimed at teaching women the nuances of indoor baseball.

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Posted By: joe

Don't know a lot about Indoor Baseball, but here are 2 views of an Indoor Baseball bat that I have in my collection. It is a Ty Cobb Brand. The label Has "W.B. Jarvis Company, Ty Cobb in script, INDOOR in larger letters. The bat is 33" long, Handle 1" width and barrel is 2" width.

Some background, Ty Cobb was owner of W.B. Jarvis Sporting Goods, company was started about 1913 and lasted a few years. Stores in Detroit on Woodward Ave and Grand Rapids on Monroe ave. I have an original catalog for the company with Baseball, Golf, Tennis, croquet, Bar Bells, Medicine balls, football, bicycle, pogo sticks and lots of clothing and equipment.

Joe


Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Keith

What kind of value does a photo like this have? I plan on hanging onto it, but someone inquired about it and I don't know where to begin assessing how much it should go for.

Also, and ideas as to what direction I should take my research in to try to identify locale or team? I am thinking that it will be an impossible mission to identify it.

thanks
Keith

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

It's tough to figure value because it's such an individual item. Without knowing who the team is and considering that it is Diamond ball (softball) which is the red-headed stepchild of baseball IMO it's value is around $75-$100. If you can get more for it you should take it.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Knowing the locale likely will have minimal effect on the value. Whether it's
Portland versus Hoboken would be nice to know, but an answer will probably alter
the price little at most.

The silver in the middle is more than likely a trophy-like award for winning or
otherwise doing well in a tournament or season. The presence of a trophy adds
to the value of a sports photo.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

I think knowing the locale of the team could help value in that someone from the area may want it for a local historical reason. As for trophies in photos check out this Spalding trophy!