left to the vintage oddball card experts

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Posted By: dave

i have nothing to do with this auction either way, but am curious, does this card look legit?


http://cgi.ebay.com/1895-NEWSBOY-CABINET-177-E-D-EDDIE-BURKE-NY-GIANTS_W0QQitemZ180031737975QQihZ008QQcategoryZ868 39QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: Joann

Copy link and paste it into browser address window. Once it's there, delete the ">" character from the very end of the string, and the link will work then.

As to the point of the thread ... I have no clue about this card. I'm not familiar with this set at all. But links? Now those I can help with!

Joann

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Posted By: Anonymous

it should be corrected

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Posted By: joe

Joann, thanks I'll save this info, believe or not worked with computers for 30 or more years, but mainframe stuff. Sometimes this online pc stuff is not the same.

Joe, Go Tigers

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: fkw

Now a 1,000 more collectors have seen it. Oh well

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

1000 collectors would have seen this anyway. Plus it has a reserve so no one was going to get this one on the cheap.

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Posted By: leon

I thought the same thing..

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Posted By: Anonymous

i just thought by the colors looked way to "white"? could it be in that good of shape?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

It is whiter than normal, but that may be due to the digital photo along with
good storage of the cabinet.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The cabinet portion looks good, but the photo looks like a modern reproduction, but as someone pointed out, the picture could have been enhanced. I've tinkered with trying to make my pictures and scan look better for an auction but gave up on it because even though it made the item look better, it didn't make the item look right. I'm not saying this item is a fake, just something to consider and I would prefer to ge this in my hands first before deciding to buy it.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The player image is also whiter than normal. The image is an albumen photographic print,
which was the same photo print used on Old Judges, Four Base Hits, etc. Most albumen prints
are sepia/yellowed. However, if an 1800s albumen print was well stored over the years, the
images can be without the sepia tinge. While most Old Judges are sepia, you will once in
a while come across what that is black and white-- usually due to the cards being stored
unusually well.

It is also noteworthy than 9+ out of 10 modern forgeries of Pre-War baseball cards are
intentionally well worn, cooked in the oven, dipped in the coffee, beat up edges. Even
the dim bulbs offering fake T206 Wagners on Yahoo! know better than to offer
a Gem Mint example.

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Posted By: fkw

The corners of the photo are rounded like many of these N566's.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

First off, for me in the evaluation of this type of inquiry is:
1. I look at the seller, and estimate whether he knows what he may have. Unless you are a bargain hunter, you want a knowledgable seller.
2. I inspect the bidders. If persons of experience feel the item is worth pursuit, then maybe it is.
This auction scores high in both regards. But it is still young, and bidding may be elementary.

So, it is now time to check out the item.
a) Identify your specific concerns.
b) Lets discuss them.
c) seek further input.

You have done this. Your further input is positive. Now what? Was this just an exercise for you? Have you considered those who have been tracking this auction with the hopes of winning the bid on it?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

As there have been complaints, no one is allowed to bid on this lot except for
Dan, Leon and Gil. Actually, I was going to add my opinion about the authenticity of
the cabinet in my previous post, but refrained as I figured someone might consider
it unfair as the lot is live.

Leon will be watching the auction, and any unwarrented bidders will be flogged
at the next national.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I have a question about Newsboy cabinets. A few years ago I bought a few Newsboy cabinets with actresses on them. These cabinets had the name of the actress on the cabinet portion. Was this also true for the baseball players? I'd offer a scan of my actresses, but I've misplaced If I ever find them, I have a fantasy piece I am going to turn them into.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

That's what I thought was weird about this one, Jay. The player's name appears on the photo itself.

I have on Newsboy - Monty Ward - and his name is printed below the picture in a reddish typeface. That's what made me think that maybe there was a problem with the one in the auction. But I don't have any others, and wanted to take some time to research before responding. I'll try and get a scan up later.

-Al

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Posted By: Scott Gross

Not sure about the card (although I would lean to fake).... but the "Winnie Whuzzywhite" stuffed bear looks pretty legit ....

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Posted By: Clinton

Jim Clarke has a Burke Newsboy on his site if you want to compare.

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Posted By: fkw

The 2 Wards have his name printed on the cabinet, the others have the name within the photo

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Posted By: davidcycleback

When looking in person at a baseball tobacco cabinet card, like an Old Judge,
realize that one of the hardest thing to forge is the cardboard mount. The
mounts were factory cut, the old Judges with gold gilt edges and lettering, the
lettering possibly slightly embossed, perhaps with foxing on back.

I would think that if you had in person a forged OJ cabinet, the mount itself
would look bad, perhaps with hand cut edges, etc.

There are cases where a forger will take an original mount and paste a desirable
subject over the original image, but the fake image almost always has the tell-tale
color dot pattern.

I don't know about the Newsboys, but many cabinet card edges from the Old Judge era
were bevel cut by the factory-- meaning the edge is cut at an angle. This is
a detail that can be seen with the right digital images. And, though much
could flake off, the OJ cabinets had gold gilded edges, and the gold is often
visible in a digital image.

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Posted By: Clinton Hromek

David, I agree but how hard would it be to soak the photo of an actress newsboy or other and glue a fake photo on it. I'm saying this hypothetically and not making any judgements on this or any other card.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Without reading your post, I edited my post to add the bit about adding images
to original mounts. We were thinking the same thing.



As there were questions about the mount(the whiteness), one thing to do as a
collector is to have the seller send you a large head-one scan of the cabinet card.
If the card is evenly cut and shaped like others in the issue, that's a
good sign. As noted earlier, cabinet mounts were factory die cut. I don't know
about anyone else, but I don't have the ability to die-cut carboard mounts in
my basement. .... This doesn't have anything to do with potential mixing and
matching of images, but is relevant if someone's question is about the mount.

Similarly, if someone is trying to sell you a National Game or Polo Grounds game
card, you might request a head on shot. It would be darned hard for a forger
to duplicate the round-edged factory cut of the originals, and it's easy to
compare the cut of the for sale card with others in the issue.

Even if she specializes in stuffed toys, this seller, with high feedback and
reserve auction, does not fit the profile of a baseball card forger.

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Posted By: David Smith

If it helps any, here is a scan of my W H (Yale) Murphy Newboy cabinet.

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Posted By: fkw

The cards fake dont bid!

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Posted By: Mike

Thanks for posting, I never would have seen those stuffed bears she was selling!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I cannot speak to the baseball cards but the Newsboy boxing cards of Corbett and Jackson have the names on the mounts in various locations and formats. I've ID'd 13 unique formats of these boxing cards.