'52 Topps Mick SGC 4 Fireworks - Hits $54,900

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

I agree with you. A perfectly centered beautiful 52 topps mantle in PSA 5 could break the $75k barrier. An SGC 60 52 topps mantle equivalent could come close to that too.
Beautiful 52 topps mantle PSA 6's and SGC 80's are already breaking the $100k barrier most notably the recent goodwin PSA 6 sale of $133k.

theres starting to become a branch off of regular grades PSA and the SGC of the world versus centered grades..(when PSA starts to put a 2 digit number next to their grade then ill respect SGC more, you see SGC 88 and 8...but you never see PSA have to put an 88 next to their 8...or whatever number corresponds)

you will see centered 5s go for more than 6s....really should be a separate category of 'centered' cards versus the rest...

maybe there will be a new good qualifier to say CTR....which adds a point

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In the last couple of years PSA is much stricter than SGC in my opinion, in terms of corners anyhow and centering which is where most cards above 3 get graded down. In general, there are always exceptions.

Originally Posted by begsu1013

this price just goes to show that collectors are finally using their brains again vs completely ignoring it and being blinded or constrained simply because of what a flip says...

find me a better centered 57...

Yep, I'd definitely say PSA is/are getting stricter than what they use to be.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...4AAOSwFMZWrkuj

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

theres starting to become a branch off of regular grades PSA and the SGC of the world versus centered grades..(when PSA starts to put a 2 digit number next to their grade then ill respect SGC more, you see SGC 88 and 8...but you never see PSA have to put an 88 next to their 8...or whatever number corresponds)

you will see centered 5s go for more than 6s....really should be a separate category of 'centered' cards versus the rest...

maybe there will be a new good qualifier to say CTR....which adds a point

I think Jake is right on the money here-- the market (which is basically us collectors) for the past few years or so, and definitely today and beyond, has essentially created two different price buckets: one for average cards and one for centered cards (provided said card doesn't have some serious eye appeal problem). It started with a data point here and there, but now it's the norm.

[Jdoggs]

Yes a 52 topps Mickey mantle SGC 80(6) recently sold for $105k.
Obviously centering brings a premium as the auctions have shown time and time again.

[Canofcorn]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

Yes a 52 topps Mickey mantle SGC 80(6) recently sold for $105k.
Obviously centering brings a premium as the auctions have shown time and time again.

Does mine on the first page fit that bill?
Yes, No, Maybe?

I just want to make sure I don't sell myself short - or overvalue it...
(when the time comes)

Is it $20-$30 range or $30-$40+ range (based on last SGC 4)

Or hard to tell...you never now - plus prices fluctuate too much on this card..trending way up though

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

Does mine on the first page fit that bill?
Yes, No, Maybe?

I just want to make sure I don't sell myself short - or overvalue it...
(when the time comes)

Is it $20-$30 range or $30-$40+ range (based on last SGC 4)

Or hard to tell...you never now - plus prices fluctuate too much on this card..trending way up though

its real nice....but you are right. you could be plus or minus 10k depending on the mood of the top bidders...

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

Does mine on the first page fit that bill?
Yes, No, Maybe?

I just want to make sure I don't sell myself short - or overvalue it...
(when the time comes)

Is it $20-$30 range or $30-$40+ range (based on last SGC 4)

Or hard to tell...you never now - plus prices fluctuate too much on this card..trending way up though

Yours is very nice.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

Does mine on the first page fit that bill?
Yes, No, Maybe?

I just want to make sure I don't sell myself short - or overvalue it...
(when the time comes)

Is it $20-$30 range or $30-$40+ range (based on last SGC 4)

Or hard to tell...you never now - plus prices fluctuate too much on this card..trending way up though

Put it out on ebay at a crazy high number OBO and see what offers come in, maybe that would help you gauge the current value.

[Canofcorn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Put it out on ebay at a crazy high number OBO and see what offers come in, maybe that would help you gauge the current value.

I did that. Didn't get more than a $20k offer. Somebody offered $1k (can't blame somebody for trying I guess) Then I see the same grade getting $54k on auction. But another comparible one via Goodwin got around $30k. I just can't gauge this market. I might have to wait it out. It seems as though the really nice 5/6s are headed to 6 figures...which might make a great eye appeal 4 the only you can get around 50k in a few years. I think the best thing to do is hold it for awhile. Part of me thinks now is time to strike...this card is hot...how much hotter can it get? But then again, my gut tells me if I sell now I will be kicking myself in a few years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

I did that. Didn't get more than a $20k offer. Somebody offered $1k (can't blame somebody for trying I guess) Then I see the same grade getting $54k on auction. But another comparible one via Goodwin got around $30k. I just can't gauge this market. I might have to wait it out. It seems as though the really nice 5/6s are headed to 6 figures...which might make a great eye appeal 4 the only you can get around 50k in a few years. I think the best thing to do is hold it for awhile. Part of me thinks now is time to strike...this card is hot...how much hotter can it get? But then again, my gut tells me if I sell now I will be kicking myself in a few years.

Sell into strength, they say. Others will differ but I just can't see the growth trend accelerating too much beyond this n the midgrades that are relatively plentiful. I think 30-35 but just a guess, I don't follow it as closely as Matt.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

I did that. Didn't get more than a $20k offer. Somebody offered $1k (can't blame somebody for trying I guess) Then I see the same grade getting $54k on auction. But another comparible one via Goodwin got around $30k. I just can't gauge this market. I might have to wait it out. It seems as though the really nice 5/6s are headed to 6 figures...which might make a great eye appeal 4 the only you can get around 50k in a few years. I think the best thing to do is hold it for awhile. Part of me thinks now is time to strike...this card is hot...how much hotter can it get? But then again, my gut tells me if I sell now I will be kicking myself in a few years.

That is hard to believe considering the condition of the card, which, imo, looks much nicer than a 4, but with that low offer, it's clear, imo, that those bidding are looking at the slab and not the card.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

I did that. Didn't get more than a $20k offer. Somebody offered $1k (can't blame somebody for trying I guess) Then I see the same grade getting $54k on auction. But another comparible one via Goodwin got around $30k. I just can't gauge this market. I might have to wait it out. It seems as though the really nice 5/6s are headed to 6 figures...which might make a great eye appeal 4 the only you can get around 50k in a few years. I think the best thing to do is hold it for awhile. Part of me thinks now is time to strike...this card is hot...how much hotter can it get? But then again, my gut tells me if I sell now I will be kicking myself in a few years.

its like a stock..there are ups and downs....you never going to time the absolute possible highest of the market , you will pull your hair wondering what if this or what if that....if you are are getting a nice profit i would sell it...rich rich people don't want low to mid grade cards...its a somewhat not as rich group in my speculation that are paying 30k and or big card lovers...once you get into the 50k+ land...i do think those middle class/upper middle card lovers look for other cards...and the rich rich people are still going for the psa 8 cobbs of the world and mantle 6+

[Canofcorn]

Well boys...1 year later and my '52T Mantle is ending tonight (also SGC 50/4, also at Goldin) and unfortunately there are NO fireworks. My centered beauty sitting at $22k. Either the Mantle market is softening, or this is what happens when you don't shill an auction. In either case, somebody is getting a heck of a deal. Didn't expect anything crazy but certainly $25-$30 was my hopes.

https://goldinauctions.com/mobile/lo..._card___sgc_50

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

It's glorious!

I wonder if Ken knows the max bid?

I reiterate my statement from the 54k sale

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I reiterate my statement from the 54k sale

Goldin Auctions cannot and has never been able to see Max bids. This is how they have operated from day 1

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

Goldin Auctions cannot and has never been able to see Max bids. This is how they have operated from day 1

Glad to hear they've (ken) changed their ways since the Mastro days.

Apparenrly your server crashed, the minute the market did.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

Well boys...1 year later and my '52T Mantle is ending tonight (also SGC 50/4, also at Goldin) and unfortunately there are NO fireworks. My centered beauty sitting at $22k. Either the Mantle market is softening, or this is what happens when you don't shill an auction. In either case, somebody is getting a heck of a deal. Didn't expect anything crazy but certainly $25-$30 was my hopes.

https://goldinauctions.com/mobile/lo..._card___sgc_50

You could still seeing some furious bidding near the end of the auction, and my gut tells me you will.
That is a beauty and I will be totally surprised if that doesn't sell real close to, or over $30G's.

Good luck.

[botn]

Hard to know what to conclude other than prices for the 52 Topps Mantle have come down. The SGC 86 and the PSA 6 sold in the auction tonight for significantly less than the exact cards had recently sold for.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

Well boys...1 year later and my '52T Mantle is ending tonight (also SGC 50/4, also at Goldin) and unfortunately there are NO fireworks. My centered beauty sitting at $22k. Either the Mantle market is softening, or this is what happens when you don't shill an auction. In either case, somebody is getting a heck of a deal. Didn't expect anything crazy but certainly $25-$30 was my hopes.

https://goldinauctions.com/mobile/lo..._card___sgc_50

ended at 29-30k so thats right at the top of what you hoped. A direct deal may of worked out better but who knows

[irv]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

Well boys...1 year later and my '52T Mantle is ending tonight (also SGC 50/4, also at Goldin) and unfortunately there are NO fireworks. My centered beauty sitting at $22k. Either the Mantle market is softening, or this is what happens when you don't shill an auction. In either case, somebody is getting a heck of a deal. Didn't expect anything crazy but certainly $25-$30 was my hopes.

https://goldinauctions.com/mobile/lo..._card___sgc_50

Glad to see you weren't disappointed, Canofcorn, and your hopes were fulfilled.

That was a very nice card!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

ended at 29-30k so thats right at the top of what you hoped. A direct deal may of worked out better but who knows

I assume he was referring to his hope for what he would realize, not the bid plus the premium.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I assume he was referring to his hope for what he would realize, not the bid plus the premium.

still it was the upper most price and well within 20%...plus he said on another thread he was happy with the price.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by botn

Hard to know what to conclude other than prices for the 52 Topps Mantle have come down. The SGC 86 and the PSA 6 sold in the auction tonight for significantly less than the exact cards had recently sold for.

i would think if you buy a card today for 30k..and sell it next week you would be lucky get someone to also pay a total of 30k with the buyers premium....afteralll whoever bought the card first was the highest bidder out there and its not like the card was a secret to find in a major auction house. Selling a few years later and losing money to me (more than 20%) means a lot more significant that selling in a year...others can disagree

[botn]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i would think if you buy a card today for 30k..and sell it next week you would be lucky get someone to also pay a total of 30k with the buyers premium....afteralll whoever bought the card first was the highest bidder out there and its not like the card was a secret to find in a major auction house. Selling a few years later and losing money to me (more than 20%) means a lot more significant that selling in a year...others can disagree

Well in the case of the SGC 86 in Oct 2016 the card sold for roughly 141K plus the juice whereas the other night it sold for 112K plus the juice. That is several bids off so interest has definitely diminished.

As for the PSA 6, it sold almost a year ago for 85K plus the juice whereas the other night it only went for 67K plus the juice, several bids off from the previous sale.

Neither sale was the next week and the difference between what the consignor paid for each of these cards and what they got for them was much greater than a 20% swing.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by botn

Well in the case of the SGC 86 in Oct 2016 the card sold for roughly 141K plus the juice whereas the other night it sold for 112K plus the juice. That is several bids off so interest has definitely diminished.

As for the PSA 6, it sold almost a year ago for 85K plus the juice whereas the other night it only went for 67K plus the juice, several bids off from the previous sale.

Neither sale was the next week and the difference between what the consignor paid for each of these cards and what they got for them was much greater than a 20% swing.

still we are talking about a year ago which isnt long when talking about a 50k card. If i bid on a card and lost by one bid which was a few k and i was the highest underbidder, i know i wouldnt bid higher. So another bidder would have to come out of the woodwork who probably already knew about the other sale.

Im guessing that the person that consigned the card a year earlier had the card for more than a year. Selling a 40k card in a year to me is a flipper. Again we are talking about the within a range that the sky isnt falling as opposed to ON FIRE analysis. If you can find that the card sold for more prior to that year old sale that would be interesting. Hertiage for example i believe reduces the juice on the consignor if they bought the card at their auction previously.

Also we dont know what arrangement on that juice was...if the seller was able to keep 10% of the juice the consignor lost within the 20% range. When you buy and driive a new car off the lot you lose a few k at least on a 50k dollar car.

[MetsBaseball1973]

The standouts in any grade will always do just fine:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...umbnail-071515

[Peter_Spaeth]

yes indeed

[Leon]

It seems to me the higher the value (amount) the higher the risk and reward. Many collectors can play it safer towards the lower end and still come out ok even if not completely whole. Find a great looking 20k Mantle, in lower grade, and you won't lose too much when you sell it, if anything. Buy a 125k card, which has other comparables and has risen a ton recently, and there can be a swing much larger than the cost of the great looking, 20k Mantle. Spinning the wheel is about right.

And I should add one other thought. At the top of the scale of '52 Mick's, in an 8 or better, that market could still have a ways to go. There seem to be more people with a cool half million to spend than there are cards to be had. Time will tell....

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

still we are talking about a year ago which isnt long when talking about a 50k card. If i bid on a card and lost by one bid which was a few k and i was the highest underbidder, i know i wouldnt bid higher. So another bidder would have to come out of the woodwork who probably already knew about the other sale.

Im guessing that the person that consigned the card a year earlier had the card for more than a year. Selling a 40k card in a year to me is a flipper. Again we are talking about the within a range that the sky isnt falling as opposed to ON FIRE analysis. If you can find that the card sold for more prior to that year old sale that would be interesting. Hertiage for example i believe reduces the juice on the consignor if they bought the card at their auction previously.

Also we dont know what arrangement on that juice was...if the seller was able to keep 10% of the juice the consignor lost within the 20% range. When you buy and driive a new car off the lot you lose a few k at least on a 50k dollar car.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Leon

It seems to me the higher the value (amount) the higher the risk and reward. Many collectors can play it safer towards the lower end and still come out ok even if not completely whole. Find a great looking 20k Mantle, in lower grade, and you won't lose too much when you sell it, if anything. Buy a 125k card, which has other comparables and has risen a ton recently, and there can be a swing much larger than the cost of the great looking, 20k Mantle. Spinning the wheel is about right.

And I should add one other thought. At the top of the scale of '52 Mick's, in an 8 or better, that market could still have a ways to go. There seem to be more people with a cool half million to spend than there are cards to be had. Time will tell....

I tend to agree with you about the 8 or better possibly having room to grow. I think the entire high or higher end market has room to grow, not that this is necessarily a great investment opportunity because it is more thinly traded. Prices having come down on the lower grades over the last 6 months has more to do with a desperately needed correction of a market fueled by momentum and manipulation. Because a certain card in a 9 went up should not mean that a much more plentiful 7 should too however I know that is not a popular opinion with the resident spinners.

[irv]

Originally Posted by MetsBaseball1973

The standouts in any grade will always do just fine:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...umbnail-071515

For sure!

Just a guess, but can the current low/lull not be attributed to the time of the season?
I mean Christmas bills are flowing, tax season is coming up (For us Nooks anyways) it's the off season, etc, etc?

I know last summer was an anomaly with exceedingly high prices and we seen the correction/bubble burst in the fall, so comparing apples to apples instead of last summer, have the prices really come down that much?

Noticed these 3 tonight on PWCC and I thought they received fairly decent bids pretty early in the auction? (8 days yet to go)
Not speculating, but maybe, now that people are getting out of their Christmas bills, etc, things may be starting to pick up again?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...EAAOSwopRYjjg7
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...sAAOSwNnRYjjhK
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...wAAOSwjDZYjjhL

[Republicaninmass]

An sgc 4 for 12.5k? Buy the holder

Edited: thought the card had closed!

[Canofcorn]

This "fireworks" thread was started at the exact same time last year. So the time of year probably doesn't matter. People dropping that kind of coin aren't affected by Christmas shopping.

eBay is a shillers paradise I would never trust those prices.
Anybody can bid and retract with no recourse

[irv]

Originally Posted by Canofcorn

This "fireworks" thread was started at the exact same time last year. So the time of year probably doesn't matter. People dropping that kind of coin aren't affected by Christmas shopping.

eBay is a shillers paradise I would never trust those prices.
Anybody can bid and retract with no recourse

Good point, but there was a definite lull happening around Christmas time as there were only 4-5 pgs of 52 Topps cards available but now it is back up to 10-11, which is close to what I normally see.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by botn

I tend to agree with you about the 8 or better possibly having room to grow. I think the entire high or higher end market has room to grow, not that this is necessarily a great investment opportunity because it is more thinly traded. Prices having come down on the lower grades over the last 6 months has more to do with a desperately needed correction of a market fueled by momentum and manipulation. Because a certain card in a 9 went up should not mean that a much more plentiful 7 should too however I know that is not a popular opinion with the resident spinners.

I agree...for many cards its an exponential jump in price between a 'key' grade

For t206 green ty cobbs the 'key' grade would be in a '5' for the 52 mantle, it may be in an '8'...

[Leon]

My hypothesis is correct so far on my '52 selling in PWCC. At this point it is about 20% higher than the SGC 50 (4) and I believe it is because the 2.5 has better eye appeal (I am biased but it does). It might not end that way but that is the way it is now. I absolutely agree there is more volatility the higher grade you go. For collectors I think the 20k range is a safe bet on a great looking, but technically lower grade Mick. If someone pays 125k for Mick in a 6 holder....the next sale could easily be for more or less than the whole value of a great looking 2.5.....

Originally Posted by botn

I tend to agree with you about the 8 or better possibly having room to grow. I think the entire high or higher end market has room to grow, not that this is necessarily a great investment opportunity because it is more thinly traded. Prices having come down on the lower grades over the last 6 months has more to do with a desperately needed correction of a market fueled by momentum and manipulation. Because a certain card in a 9 went up should not mean that a much more plentiful 7 should too however I know that is not a popular opinion with the resident spinners.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

My hypothesis is correct so far on my '52 selling in PWCC. At this point it is about 20% higher than the SGC 50 (4) and I believe it is because the 2.5 has better eye appeal (I am biased but it does). It might not end that way but that is the way it is now. I absolutely agree there is more volatility the higher grade you go. For collectors I think the 20k range is a safe bet on a great looking, but technically lower grade Mick. If someone pays 125k for Mick in a 6 holder....the next sale could easily be for more or less than the whole value of a great looking 2.5.....

SGC 4 is really a PSA 3ish (value wise) and yours is a psa 2.5...going to be interesting....i havent seen the sgc 4 card yet..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

My hypothesis is correct so far on my '52 selling in PWCC. At this point it is about 20% higher than the SGC 50 (4) and I believe it is because the 2.5 has better eye appeal (I am biased but it does). It might not end that way but that is the way it is now. I absolutely agree there is more volatility the higher grade you go. For collectors I think the 20k range is a safe bet on a great looking, but technically lower grade Mick. If someone pays 125k for Mick in a 6 holder....the next sale could easily be for more or less than the whole value of a great looking 2.5.....

You were right on that range..19k and change for the 2.5...congrats..