Anybody Noticing PWCC weekly auction content and sales $$$'s?

[55koufax]

So for about two months now, I have concluded that PWCC has again shot itself in the foot with their constant changing formats....the 20% BP on their weekly auction they recently instilled, along with all the other BS, appears to have taken it's toll on the quality of consignments they have been getting. Seemingly very low quality throughout. Also, I see some bargains even to be found at times. Strange, compared "to the old days" !!!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

So for about two months now, I have concluded that PWCC has again shot itself in the foot with their constant changing formats....the 20% BP on their weekly auction they recently instilled, along with all the other BS, appears to have taken it's toll on the quality of consignments they have been getting. Seemingly very low quality throughout. Also, I see some bargains even to be found at times. Strange, compared "to the old days" !!!

Well it is a good thing they are not under an active federal investigation for shill bidding and card altering. Imagine what that might do to their business!

[Leon]

I am not saying I would never bid with them but I haven't in years. I don't think I have looked at more than 2 of their auctions since leaving ebay. I am not a registered member with them...and now if they have a 20% buyers penalty I am very much less likely.
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[rugbymarine]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

So for about two months now, I have concluded that PWCC has again shot itself in the foot with their constant changing formats....the 20% BP on their weekly auction they recently instilled, along with all the other BS, appears to have taken it's toll on the quality of consignments they have been getting. Seemingly very low quality throughout. Also, I see some bargains even to be found at times. Strange, compared "to the old days" !!!

I have noticed the same, especially compared to some of their offerings in November/December. I collect Brooks Robinson. When I searched for “Brooks Robinson”, I was underwhelmed by the quantity and the quality of the listings.

[ZiggerZagger]

I was shocked to see them tack on a 20% BP to even their run-of-the-mill weekly auctions a little while ago. Really tone-deaf as to their position in the market now.

Their first couple of auctions after leaving eBay featured some weaker prices compared to market, but much less so now. And the BP absolutely kills it.

Worst of all, their website format makes browsing the auction almost impossible. Really slow and laborious. Unless you have very narrow tastes and can search for what you want (T206, e.g.), it's just not worth the time and effort.

As this probably meets criteria for a critical post, here you go (j@$on B!$pin&)
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[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

I was shocked to see them tack on a 20% BP to even their run-of-the-mill weekly auctions a little while ago. Really tone-deaf as to their position in the market now.

Their first couple of auctions after leaving eBay featured some weaker prices compared to market, but much less so now. And the BP absolutely kills it.

Worst of all, their website format makes browsing the auction almost impossible. Really slow and laborious. Unless you have very narrow tastes and can search for what you want (T206, e.g.), it's just not worth the time and effort.

As this probably meets criteria for a critical post, here you go (j@$on B!$pin&)
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+1 Agreed. as other mentioned as a result I do not even bother looking anymore

[Peter_Spaeth]

Are they still charging consignors or have they just shifted to an AH model of making their cut from the BP? Either way I don't see why it's a deterrent, just bid 20 percent less, in theory everyone else should be doing the same.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Are they still charging consignors or have they just shifted to an AH model of making their cut from the BP? Either way I don't see why it's a deterrent, just bid 20 percent less, in theory everyone else should be doing the same.

I have zero stake in the matter, as I don't think I've ever used them for anything, but that's exactly what they are doing.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/submit

Don't know how else an auction house is supposed to make money. You either have a Buyers Premium, or a Consignor's fee, or a combination of both.......there's really no way around that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I have zero stake in the matter, as I don't think I've ever used them for anything, but that's exactly what they are doing.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/submit

Don't know how else an auction house is supposed to make money. You either have a Buyers Premium, or a Consignor's fee, or a combination of both.......there's really no way around that.

As we've discussed a thousand times, a high BP should trouble consigners, not bidders. Just bid accordingly.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Are they still charging consignors or have they just shifted to an AH model of making their cut from the BP? Either way I don't see why it's a deterrent, just bid 20 percent less, in theory everyone else should be doing the same.

Remember the last time you discussed this? LOL. Anyway, there are some who play by those rules and others who just want to win and really do not care or even realize they are overpaying. Assuming they are not being run up, they may not in fact even be overpaying just because they paid more and could pay more. The present market is not measured by 20% vigs and sales tax for many who just showed up to the party.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Remember the last time you discussed this? LOL. Anyway, there are some who play by those rules and others who just want to win and really do not care or even realize they are overpaying. Assuming they are not being run up, they may not in fact even be overpaying just because they paid more and could pay more. The present market is not measured by 20% vigs and sales tax for many who just showed up to the party.

Then those guys are going to win under any system. You can't beat a price-indifferent bidder in any circumstance.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Then those guys are going to win under any system. You can't beat a price-indifferent bidder in any circumstance.

Well it is not every auction and every lot but there is much more of that happening today, I think. Was not saying you were wrong at all. Just saying the rules are not applying across the board any longer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Well it is not every auction and every lot but there is much more of that happening today, I think. Was not saying you were wrong at all. Just saying the rules are not applying across the board any longer.

Chase, you may be right, but even so what's the worst that happens if you bid x/1.2? You lose, so what? Not a reason not to bid. The outrage people constantly express about BPs just seems completely misplaced. As though they're being forced to pay more.

[tiger8mush]

Slightly OT, but this is in their current auction ... how old is the PSA label, with "VG 4"?

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Besides the whole card altering & regrading scandal, which did cause me to lose confidence in Brent & PWCC, their product line has diminished, their sticker proclaiming a top tier graded example, which was ingenious at the time (like coin slab stickers), now holds absolutely no value, given that at least few of those stickers were put on altered cards, and lastly, their website stinks! The site is slow and denies access to anyone with a VPN. Its the 21st century, many of us use VPNs, especially when conducting business online, like buying a $10K card.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Slightly OT, but this is in their current auction ... how old is the PSA label, with "VG 4"?

That's a type 1 original, issued in 91 & 92, pretty rare to see actually.

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am not saying I would never bid with them but I haven't in years. I don't think I have looked at more than 2 of their auctions since leaving ebay. I am not a registered member with them...and now if they have a 20% buyers penalty I am very much less likely.
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This.

I don’t even think to look at their auctions. They have been out of sight, out of mind I guess.

[111gecko]

Their auctions were huge. Where do you think the consignors went? My guess is a good amount went to Probstein and Greg Morris. Any other ideas?

[JeremyW]

Their consignors have a multitude of options available these days. Your guess is probably correct, if they're in a hurry.

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The outrage people constantly express about BPs just seems completely misplaced.

Whenever I read someone railing against BP or condemning an auction house for it, I immediately wonder what other simple things in life they can't grasp. As you say, if every bidder is paying it, it doesn't matter at all. Now, if some bidders are being allowed to skate on the BP or are being given reduced rates, that's another story.

Bidders should be more pissed that some bidders in auctions are charged sales tax and others aren't (based on the state in which they live). Now that's the uneven playing field they mistakenly think BP is. And even that isn't the fault of the auction house but rather rules set up by the government.

[JeremyW]

To BRoberts point, I'm guessing that the individual states are amazed at the amount of money that Ebay & other auction houses are sending them in sales tax. Personally, I've never concerned myself with the buyer's premium as a buyer, only as a seller.

[ZiggerZagger]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I have zero stake in the matter, as I don't think I've ever used them for anything, but that's exactly what they are doing.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/submit

Don't know how else an auction house is supposed to make money. You either have a Buyers Premium, or a Consignor's fee, or a combination of both.......there's really no way around that.

That's really interesting to see their reimbursement structure to Consignors, which looks attractive in all honesty.

My initial surprise in PWCC changing to a 20% BP was not out of resistance to that idea generically -- I think most of us on the board see the huge value that the traditional AH's bring to the table.

Mostly, I found it striking that PWCC -- who painted themselves as ever the innovators in the hobby -- are now taking a very conventional, cookie-cutter approach to their business. And that's at a time when they presumably have a lot to lose in terms of their relevance in the hobby.

They're doing what a dozen others AH's have already been doing for decades, at a time when their fall from Ebay really would have befitted them taking a more aggressive approach to retain the momentum and interest they'd built up via Ebay over the years. Instead, I'd say others have stepped in to fill the void. The excitement around REA's auctions amongst the PreWar collectors groups that I'm in very much feels like the heyday of PWCC on Ebay now, for example.
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[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

That's really interesting to see their reimbursement structure to Consignors, which looks attractive in all honesty.

My initial surprise in PWCC changing to a 20% BP was not out of resistance to that idea generically -- I think most of us on the board see the huge value that the traditional AH's bring to the table.

Mostly, I found it striking that PWCC -- who painted themselves as ever the innovators in the hobby -- are now taking a very conventional, cookie-cutter approach to their business. And that's at a time when they presumably have a lot to lose in terms of their relevance in the hobby.

They're doing what a dozen others AH's have already been doing for decades, at a time when their fall from Ebay really would have befitted them taking a more aggressive approach to retain the momentum and interest they'd built up via Ebay over the years. Instead, I'd say others have stepped in to fill the void. The excitement around REA's auctions amongst the PreWar collectors groups that I'm in very much feels like the heyday of PWCC on Ebay now, for example.
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Bingo. They have relegated themselves to an afterthought. I have attempted to bid on the new site. I find it clunky and cumbersome. As big as they were, you would have thought they would have invested in a kick ass auction site.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Are they still charging consignors or have they just shifted to an AH model of making their cut from the BP? Either way I don't see why it's a deterrent, just bid 20 percent less, in theory everyone else should be doing the same.

As with a lot of things, they made this complicated. As easily as I can describe it, the 20% buyers premium they charge is "shared" with the consignor, depending upon the ending bid amount.

[icurnmedic]

Different take than most here.
I purchase cards weekly from them. Low end Items that I consider a "steal", for $10-$20.
As far as their platform, I think its good.
Sure makes bidding easy for me as I can bid on up to 96 items at once.

FWIW, been dealing with them for years with absolutely no issues... not one.

That being said , I did pull all of my higher end stuff out of the vault.
Now in a Safety Deposit Box and insured w/ collect insure.
Thomas

[Republicaninmass]

Frankly I dont care what steals may be had. I prefer to do business elsewhere

[BobbyStrawberry]

I have found their offerings to be so unimpressive that I don't even look at their listings anymore. It doesn't help that the website is horrendous.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I wonder if the vault business is declining proportionally to how their auction business seems to be declining.

[Snowman]

I agree that the inventory at PWCC is pretty weak. And there have definitely been quite a few cards that sold well below market value (hence the weak inventory). Although most of what I've been tracking over the past 2 weeks seems to have done better than prior weeks/months, but that could just be due to variance. It'll be interesting to see how things go from here. I'm completely indifferent to the 20% buyer's premium model though. It makes no difference to me. At the end of the day, it's the same cost to the buyer. The only thing that matters is for the sellers and how much of the final sale amount they get back. As for the website, I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I think it's by far the best auction site online in terms of user experience with finding cards, seeing high def scans from multiple angles, sorting, filtering, descriptions, etc. And the recent bids bar across the top is awesome too. It's not even close for me. PWCC is miles ahead of the competition as far as the website goes. Nearly everyone else is using the same ancient software that, at best, just gets the job done.

[rjackson44]

I use net 54 im loyal. Terrific cards here . Run well and great folks.

[Snapolit1]

Once or twice I’ve searched their website for the 3-5 players I primarily collect and have been stunned at the bottom feeding aspect of what they are offering. People have moved on. Say what you want about Probstein, month after month he has interesting stuff. Heavily tilted towards modern but does regularly have nice vintage, and I’ve even purchased an occasional rare photo from him.

[t206fanatic]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Frankly I dont care what steals may be had. I prefer to do business elsewhere

that sentiment is probably why there's still steals

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Chase, you may be right, but even so what's the worst that happens if you bid x/1.2? You lose, so what? Not a reason not to bid. The outrage people constantly express about BPs just seems completely misplaced. As though they're being forced to pay more.

I am not sure where you saw all of the outrage? Personally, I said I am much less likely to bid with them with the 20% BP. Why? Because there are some of the best AHs around that advertise here and charge the same. Between ebay, our BST and Net54 advertisers, that is where about 98% of the few bucks I have to spend goes. It might just be a principle thing for me too.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by t206fanatic

that sentiment is probably why there's still steals

Sadly, I'd wager I'm in the minority. The shills must have run out of fire power.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am not sure where you saw all of the outrage? Personally, I said I am much less likely to bid with them with the 20% BP. Why? Because there are some of the best AHs around that advertise here and charge the same. Between ebay, our BST and Net54 advertisers, that is where about 98% of the few bucks I have to spend goes. It might just be a principle thing for me too.

People have been complaining about BPs since I started reading this board. And I don't know why. It's a non-issue except for consignors. If consignors don't want to give up 20 percent to PWCC and would rather give it up to an AH, I get that. But it's just a math calculation for a bidder.

Maybe outrage is an overstatement for this thread, but posters did state the 20 percent BP would cause them not to bid. And I'm like, why?

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

People have been complaining about BPs since I started reading this board. And I don't know why. It's a non-issue except for consignors. If consignors don't want to give up 20 percent to PWCC and would rather give it up to an AH, I get that. But it's just a math calculation for a bidder.

Maybe outrage is an overstatement for this thread, but posters did state the 20 percent BP would cause them not to bid. And I'm like, why?

I agree. All premiums are paid by the consignor. If an auction house offers 19% buyer's premium all that means is that the consignor gets 1% more than usual.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am not sure where you saw all of the outrage? Personally, I said I am much less likely to bid with them with the 20% BP. Why? Because there are some of the best AHs around that advertise here and charge the same. Between ebay, our BST and Net54 advertisers, that is where about 98% of the few bucks I have to spend goes. It might just be a principle thing for me too.

I agree about the principle... 20% BP at quality AHs like REA or LOTG is one thing, but PWCC? That's like McDonald's instituting a compulsory valet parking policy. And on top of that, they want to keep your cards!!

[darwinbulldog]

Shhh. Some of us like it when other bidders remove themselves from the action.

[CardPadre]

I feel like if they kept the initial format coming from eBay like they did for the first couple weekly auctions they could have maybe stood out in an appealing way to the newer generation of buyers.

“Not your grandpa’s auction house, what you bid is what you pay.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Yoda]

The current bunch of T206s in their current weekly auction is a far cry from yesterday. Pure dog poop.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Shhh. Some of us like it when other bidders remove themselves from the action.

lol. "Please do not tap on the glass."

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

I feel like if they kept the initial format coming from eBay like they did for the first couple weekly auctions they could have maybe stood out in an appealing way to the newer generation of buyers.

“Not your grandpa’s auction house, what you bid is what you pay.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Problem is, when you're competing for consignments with auction houses that dominate the market, and use a certain model, it is VERY hard to use a different model. Consignors, despite trying to explain to them that a higher commission and a lower BP that is the same total rate as a lower commission and a higher BP, seem to only hear the commission number.

So if you have a model that charges a combined total of 30% but it's broken down 20% commission 10% BP you will lose consignors that you could get by reversing those numbers.

I know it's stupid, but it's true.