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Old 08-07-2018, 10:19 AM
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Kyle May
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Default T207 Back Multipliers

Are any T207 collectors able to shed some light on the multiplier I should add to each back? Struggling with valuing the only T207 subject I collect in his different backs. Thanks.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:02 PM
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Finding a consistent multiplier for the backs in something like T207 is not easy because it is one of the rarer tobacco sets in comparison with things like T205 and T206.

Also keep in mind that not every subject is on every back. For example, some players have Recruit or Napoleon backs. Other players have Broadleaf and Cycle backs. But those groups don't intermingle. For example, a player with a Recruit back will not also have a Cycle back. There are also the Anonymous and Red Cross backs as well. I believe Anonymous cards can be on players in either of the two groups while Red Cross is limited to those with Broadleaf/Cycle backs.

In terms of rarity, Recruit is the easiest while Red Cross is the toughest. Others are somewhere in the middle. Other than Red Cross, Napoleons are maybe the ones I see the least of.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:36 PM
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Assuming you're talking about the Broadleaf series? If so, Broadleafs are the easiest and cheapest. Anonymous are tougher, but it doesn't seem like people care much, and they sell for a similar price as the Broadleafs. Cycles are tougher and people really like the design, so they sell for more. How much more is hard to say. Hopefully someone else who has a little better handle on it than I do can jump in and help.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:55 PM
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Just to keep the ball rolling, Recruit factory 240 is more plentiful than Recruit factory 606, probably by a ratio of somewhere between 3 to 1 or perhaps 4 to 1. As far as I can tell this has no or sometimes minimal impact on the pricing of the factory 606 cards.

All other backs I generally ignore.

Brian
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:31 PM
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In short, no one really cares, the player on the front either comes with one of the tough back or he doesn't(Anonymous being the only outlier), thus you have to price according to who is on the front. I can recall when Rath and Rasmussen were tough, and Speaker and Saier, and Donln and Downey and so forth, but alas the set collectors are nowhere to be found anymore, so no great price push for them. The Cycle seems to be the only one with a premium of the tougher ones, due to the bright red back.
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Old 08-08-2018, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post
In short, no one really cares, the player on the front either comes with one of the tough back or he doesn't(Anonymous being the only outlier), thus you have to price according to who is on the front. I can recall when Rath and Rasmussen were tough, and Speaker and Saier, and Donln and Downey and so forth, but alas the set collectors are nowhere to be found anymore, so no great price push for them. The Cycle seems to be the only one with a premium of the tougher ones, due to the bright red back.
Totally agree with this. Iíve bought t207ís quite a bit over the last five years or so and really there is no back premium except for cycles. In terms of rarity I concur that napoleons are much more difficult than non t207 collectors believe. Most peg it as the second easiest back after recruits but I think this is just because the set is uniquely broken into recruit/nap players and bl/cycle/anon players with the recruit/nap players being much much more common then the latter. The proportion of recruit to nap is insane though... I would guess even low triple digits. Some would scoff at this but I truly think itís the case even factoring a large find or two (including hoarding). I think rarity goes recruit/bl/anon3/cycle/anon25/nap/red cross. Would love to hear any diehard t207 collectors, if they even exist anymore, thoughts on the subject.
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post
In short, no one really cares, the player on the front either comes with one of the tough back or he doesn't(Anonymous being the only outlier), thus you have to price according to who is on the front. I can recall when Rath and Rasmussen were tough, and Speaker and Saier, and Donln and Downey and so forth, but alas the set collectors are nowhere to be found anymore, so no great price push for them. The Cycle seems to be the only one with a premium of the tougher ones, due to the bright red back.
And of course Red Cross backs carry the highest premium but there are only around 15-20 known.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozumeleno View Post
Finding a consistent multiplier for the backs in something like T207 is not easy because it is one of the rarer tobacco sets in comparison with things like T205 and T206.

Also keep in mind that not every subject is on every back. For example, some players have Recruit or Napoleon backs. Other players have Broadleaf and Cycle backs. But those groups don't intermingle. For example, a player with a Recruit back will not also have a Cycle back. There are also the Anonymous and Red Cross backs as well. I believe Anonymous cards can be on players in either of the two groups while Red Cross is limited to those with Broadleaf/Cycle backs.

In terms of rarity, Recruit is the easiest while Red Cross is the toughest. Others are somewhere in the middle. Other than Red Cross, Napoleons are maybe the ones I see the least of.
The player I collect (Grover Hartley) is in the Broadleaf/Cycle/Anonymous section. I learned this at National, and appreciate you confirming. Is the Red Cross a guaranteed back for that the Broadleaf/Cycle/Anonymous, or is it more if the subject has a Red Cross, they would also only have those 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post
In short, no one really cares, the player on the front either comes with one of the tough back or he doesn't(Anonymous being the only outlier), thus you have to price according to who is on the front. I can recall when Rath and Rasmussen were tough, and Speaker and Saier, and Donln and Downey and so forth, but alas the set collectors are nowhere to be found anymore, so no great price push for them. The Cycle seems to be the only one with a premium of the tougher ones, due to the bright red back.
Grover Hartley is the player I collect. 15th toughest card I believe in the set? Doesn't bode well for me with trying to place valuations on his cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz View Post
Totally agree with this. Iíve bought t207ís quite a bit over the last five years or so and really there is no back premium except for cycles. In terms of rarity I concur that napoleons are much more difficult than non t207 collectors believe. Most peg it as the second easiest back after recruits but I think this is just because the set is uniquely broken into recruit/nap players and bl/cycle/anon players with the recruit/nap players being much much more common then the latter. The proportion of recruit to nap is insane though... I would guess even low triple digits. Some would scoff at this but I truly think itís the case even factoring a large find or two (including hoarding). I think rarity goes recruit/bl/anon3/cycle/anon25/nap/red cross. Would love to hear any diehard t207 collectors, if they even exist anymore, thoughts on the subject.
Interesting. Are the Anonymous factories also specific to each set? The Hartley anonymous I've seen is a Factory 3 (also, BL & Cycle).
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  #9  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 View Post
The player I collect (Grover Hartley) is in the Broadleaf/Cycle/Anonymous section. I learned this at National, and appreciate you confirming. Is the Red Cross a guaranteed back for that the Broadleaf/Cycle/Anonymous, or is it more if the subject has a Red Cross, they would also only have those 3?



Grover Hartley is the player I collect. 15th toughest card I believe in the set? Doesn't bode well for me with trying to place valuations on his cards.



Interesting. Are the Anonymous factories also specific to each set? The Hartley anonymous I've seen is a Factory 3 (also, BL & Cycle).
The anonymous backs seem to be scattered through both groups, at least the factory 3's. I have several from both (Leach from recruit/nap and Almeida from bl/cycle). For the 25's, I only have one and it's from the bl/cycle group (Herzog).
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:46 AM
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The player I collect (Grover Hartley) is in the Broadleaf/Cycle/Anonymous section. I learned this at National, and appreciate you confirming. Is the Red Cross a guaranteed back for that the Broadleaf/Cycle/Anonymous, or is it more if the subject has a Red Cross, they would also only have those 3?

Your latter point is the correct one. To date, there are only around 15 or so of the Red Cross cards that have been confirmed. I believe all of the known ones found are Broadleaf/Cycle guys. But because so few Red Cross cards are known, it can't really be considered a guaranteed back for those players.
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T205 Gold Border (217/217)
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T207 Brown Background (181/200)
E90-1 (70/121)
E91-A/B/C (44/99)
W512/W513 Strip (91/100)
W515 Strip (19/60)
1933-38 Goudey Run (128/445)
1939 Play Ball (78/161)

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