With all the auctions out there

[Fballguy]

eBay all day every day.

No outrageous buyer's premium. I shouldn't have to pay for the privilege of paying for something. The auction house is selling for the seller. They are not providing any service for the buyer that isn't covered in the "shipping and handling" charge. The seller should pay the fee.

[Peter_Spaeth]

.

[Leon]

This is what is wrong with America > Just where do you think the money the auction is being paid is coming from? See bold below. Whether it is a sellers fee or a buyers premium any monies being paid to the auction house come from the consignors.

Originally Posted by Fballguy

eBay all day every day.

No outrageous buyer's premium. I shouldn't have to pay for the privilege of paying for something. The auction house is selling for the seller. They are not providing any service for the buyer that isn't covered in the "shipping and handling" charge. The seller should pay the fee.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is what is wrong with America > Just where do you think the money the auction is being paid is coming from? See bold below. Whether it is a sellers fee or a buyers premium any monies being paid to the auction house come from the consignors.

He just doesn't grasp this. We went through this before with him. What's frustrating is that after all that he just goes and posts the same thing again. Since he apparently doesn't understand auctions, it's just as well he prefers ebay.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is what is wrong with America > Just where do you think the money the auction is being paid is coming from? See bold below. Whether it is a sellers fee or a buyers premium any monies being paid to the auction house come from the consignors.

You and Peter have been in the game too long. You've accepted it as normal and come up with some way to rationalize it. Just because something has always been done, doesn't mean it has to be done.

eBay is an auction house. eBay doesn't charge a buyer's premium. What's that you say? eBay doesn't have overhead? Their 12,000+ employees work for free?

Who doesn't get it Peter?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You and Peter have been in the game too long. You've accepted it as normal and come up with some way to rationalize it. Just because something has always been done, doesn't mean it has to be done.

eBay is an auction house. eBay doesn't charge a buyer's premium. What's that you say? eBay doesn't have overhead? Their 12,000+ employees work for free?

Who doesn't get it Peter?

You don't get it, Rob, sorry to say.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You don't get it, Rob, sorry to say.

And I have to say between your cartoons and this response...you make a compelling argument.

For something. I guess..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

And I have to say between your cartoons and this response...you make a compelling argument.

For something. I guess..

Everyone else here understands it.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You and Peter have been in the game too long. You've accepted it as normal and come up with some way to rationalize it. Just because something has always been done, doesn't mean it has to be done.

eBay is an auction house. eBay doesn't charge a buyer's premium. What's that you say? eBay doesn't have overhead? Their 12,000+ employees work for free?

Who doesn't get it Peter?

You forget Ebay doesn't do most of the work. They are the discount broker in the auction world. They do not research items, list items, scan items, package items, solicit consignments, attend shows, promote the sale, etc. All of these tasks are done by the seller on Ebay, who ultimately still has to pay Ebay a fee for using their platform. Ebay is simply just a hosting company. This would be comparable to the AH using Simpleauctionsite or Createauction as the platform for their auction. Out of the buyer premium charged, the AH pays for whichever company that hosts the auction (unless, of course, they built and maintain the platform themselves). When you list on Ebay you are taking the role of the AH and just using their platform.

Regarding who pays the AH fee. Mathematically, it doesn't matter. Either the buyer pays it in the form of a buyer's premium or the consignor pays it in the form of a seller premium. The total amount the the buyer pays should never be different. The auction house needs to net $x per $y in sales in order to stay in business.

The big difference is the AH needs to solicit consignments. Without consignors the auction house will not survive. Psychologically, it is a lot easier to convince someone to consign something with zero fees then it is to tell them they will pay 10 or 20%, especially if another auction house is offering zero fees. Losing consignors to try to change a process everyone else follows does not seem like a smart business plan to me.

DJ

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ultimately, whether you call it a seller's fee or a buyer's premium is just semantics. Rob, I don't know why you don't grasp this.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ultimately, whether you call it a seller's fee or a buyer's premium is just semantics. Rob, I don't know why you don't grasp this.

I can’t speak for Rob, of course, but I think some folks find it more enjoyable to not grasp that concept and be angry about it.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ultimately, whether you call it a seller's fee or a buyer's premium is just semantics. Rob, I don't know why you don't grasp this.

If it's just semantics...Why bother calling it a "buyer's premium"?

If it's just semantics...Why don't they get rid of it and just take 20% out of the high bid? In your world it's all the same right?

If the seller is paying everything, why do we need a buyer's premium at all?

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I honestly don't care where an item is for sale: ebay, auction house, or here on the BST, I know what I am willing to pay and that is that. If I know I am participating in an auction that charges a buyers premium, I factor that into my bid amount.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If it's just semantics...Why bother calling it a "buyer's premium"?

If it's just semantics...Why don't they get rid of it and just take 20% out of the high bid? In your world it's all the same right?

If the seller is paying everything, why do we need a buyer's premium at all?

You don't see that the 20 percent fee with an auction house is less money the consignor receives? Most buyers will bid the same amount in either venue and just factor in the BP when making a maximum bid.

[Fballguy]

Now this was a cogent reply. The problem with the first paragraph is it's based on the faulty notion that the high bid is the high bid regardless of BP or not. No doubt some take it into account when bidding. Just as undoubtedly others do not.

Can't really argue with a lot in the second paragraph except to say you're contradicting what Peter and others are saying that it's just semantics...unless you're implying the consignors are too dumb to know the difference.

And when talking about business plans...This sounds like a very antiquated one. With the internet, Amazon, eBay, etc...I think that once the dinosaurs of this hobby...the ones who accept the status quo just because it's all they've ever known...become extinct...this business plan will be a hard sell to the next generation.

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Regarding who pays the AH fee. Mathematically, it doesn't matter. Either the buyer pays it in the form of a buyer's premium or the consignor pays it in the form of a seller premium. The total amount the the buyer pays should never be different. The auction house needs to net $x per $y in sales in order to stay in business.

The big difference is the AH needs to solicit consignments. Without consignors the auction house will not survive. Psychologically, it is a lot easier to convince someone to consign something with zero fees then it is to tell them they will pay 10 or 20%, especially if another auction house is offering zero fees. Losing consignors to try to change a process everyone else follows does not seem like a smart business plan to me.

DJ

[Peter_Spaeth]

IMO, it is just semantics. As a bidder or as a consignor, I could not care less what you call the AH's cut. And as a bidder, I don't care at all about the percentage, except as an input to a calcuation.

If there truly were a large number of bidders out there who are so clueless that they don't take the premium into account when bidding, then I would have a different perspective, but I don't believe it.

[dabigyankeeman]

I live on Ebay. Most auction houses are chock full of really high condition cards that are too expensive for me, and on Ebay I can find various conditions of almost any card I am looking for. You get the advantage of Ebay Bucks, which really add up when you use the specials when you get 8 or 10 pct extra. Incredible selection on Ebay too.

[Rhotchkiss]

Considering eBay is there 24/7 and I check it several times per day, I wish eBay was more useful for me. But unfortunately, it is not. It either doesn’t have the cards I want and/or when it does, they are overpriced. I like rare and old and the cards I collect tend to be a bit pricey, and I feel Auction houses more often have these cards and I get better deals on auction-style opportunities than in a store (e-store or card show). I now know privately most of the eBay sellers who carry cards I like, and my eBay opportunities seem now to only be pwcc, probstein and other auctions held on eBay. For me, almost 100% of my cards come from auctions or private deals, and, as an aside, net54 has been a total/major asset to making connections and doing private deals.

eBay is a great thing, and I check it constantly. But for me, it yields very few acquisitions unless via an ebay auction

[x2drich2000]

For my personal collection, it is really hit or miss with both auction houses and Ebay, but I think that is just due to the limit scope of things I'm looking for. So far this year I think I've picked up probably a half dozen cards though auction houses, 2 or 3 through Ebay, 1 at a show, and can't remember seeing something I'm interested in on the BST.

From a reselling prospective, I still prefer looking for bargain at auction houses over Ebay because there is just so much on Ebay that it is overwhelming trying to find bargains without a narrower focus. On the other hand, I prefer selling on Ebay over auction houses simply cause I have more control on how I price things and can therefore reduce the risk of losing money on the sale.

DJ