C46 Imperial Tobacco

[Vintagecatcher]

Since the producer of the C46 set is not printed on the backs of the cards, anyone know why the set is attributed to Imperial Tobacco?

I have never seen any documentation that confirms this connection. Is this assumption based strictly on the fact that larger holdings of the cards have been found in Canada?

Granted two of the teams shown in the set are Canadian in Toronto and Montreal, but where is the proof that the Canadian tobacco company Imperial Tobacco produced this set?

Would love to see some documentation.

Patrick

[matthew]

Great question! I guess the only choices are Imperial Tobacco or the ATC. Here is an article with some theories

https://prewarcards.com/2018/02/19/c...-minor-league/

The numbers on the back are the best indicator IMO. All the hockey & lacrosse series also have numbers on the front or back.

[Vintagecatcher]

Thanks for the link Matt!

Maybe one of our Canadian board members can find a paper trail that confirms that Imperial Tobacco produced the set of 90 cards!

Patrick

[Cozumeleno]

Unfortunately my page there won't show any definitive proof. Burdick's ACC calls it an Imperial issue, though, which has generally been enough to document it as such. Still, I'd love to see any other actual proof in pictures/documentation if others have it.

[Vintagecatcher]

As Matt mentioned earlier in the thread, the fact that the cards are numbered is significant since all of the other period Imperial Tobacco cards also display this characteristic. Some like the C46 set are numbered on the back, while others have the numbers on the front.

When I was researching some of the other sets, I was also surprised to learn that hockey sets like C55 and C56 are also believed to be released by Imperial Tobacco, but like the C46 set they are considered an "unattributed" Canadian tobacco issue.

Also of note is the back of these three type cards is they list the particular sport series: BASEBALL SERIES, HOCKEY SERIES, and LACROSSE SERIES, respectively.





Patrick

[Leon]

Interesting topic (to me.) One thing is most likely, Burdick had some sort of proof that these cards were produced/distributed from Imperial Tobacco or he wouldn't have printed it (not that he didn't make some apparent mistakes with new information found) in the American Card Catalog.

.

[squelch]

In 2016 the 1st Annual Canadian Baseball History Conference was held in St Mary's, ON Canada. St. Mary's is the home of the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame. I presented a paper on this card set at the that initial conference.

When I began my research, my first move was to contact Imperial Tobacco. Their head office was (probably still is) in Montreal. They would not discuss any promotions with their products. I assume this is because they are in great fear of lawsuits.

That same year (1912) as the baseball cards, Imperial Tobacco put out the c57 Hockey Card Set. That set is very similar to the baseball card set with numbers on the backs and absolutely no clue as to the producer.

That c57 set is very well known in Canada. The cards came out of Derby Cigarettes. Those packages are very hard to find. There is a metal reproduction of the Derby Cig. Pkg. on eBay.

I would assume that Derby Cigarette Packs would have also held the c46 baseball cards.

In those days, baseball was at least as popular in Canada as was hockey. There were more baseball leagues in Canada than there are teams today.

I regret that I have been unable to find a definitive source (other than Burdick) to attribute the cards to ITC. However, I have never encountered any doubt as to the set's origin.

[G1911]

This is a great topic to bring up. I have been struggling with it for some time as well.

I collect C46 and C52, a clone of the boxing and multi-sport T218 set. Both are attributed to Imperial Tobacco in every resource I can find, with no real evidence to support it. The C52's are clearly printed by American Lithographic, the printer of T218, and many have been found in Canada. Those two points are facts, however, most of my C52's came from an original collection in the American South, and Imperial Tobacco is mentioned nowhere on the cards, or in any documents from the time, or in any known ads, etc. I'm not sold that the C52 were even solely a Canadian issue.


Any set with a Canadian association and/or has card numbers seems to be said to be an Imperial Tobacco set, as if it is a known fact. This may be true, but I think there are plenty of reasons for doubt and room for other possibilities.


It strikes me as odd that many of these 'Imperial' sets don't mention the brand or company. The Bird Series Ted posted is a great example of the many Imperial issues that do mention the company, and are definitely Imperial cards. Why insert a cigarette card without any advertising, especially when the printer was set up to do this? C46 has no American counterpart, but C52's American clone, T218, features adds for Mecca, Hassan or Tolstoi cigarettes. Wouldn't Imperial want American Lithography to put their name on it, instead of changing the series captions to remove any reference to the brand?


From a larger perspective, I think this is a great example of the importance of separating opinions and proposed ideas from actual facts in the hobby. Many of the 'facts' listed in guides, books, threads and elsewhere are not facts; they are speculation that is one of several possible explanations that fit the actual facts.


It may well be true, that these and the other sets were all Imperial Tobacco issues. It may be the best explanation and theory for these cards existence and how they were issued and produced. Theories that reasonably fit the known facts are a good thing, but I think the hobby should stop repeating the theories as if they are the true gospel. Very little of what is said about vintage cards can be reasonably proven to be a fact, which is half the fun of researching them and trying to clear up the mysteries, or identify new ones.

[Exhibitman]

The back of the O'Hara card calls the PCL the Pacific League Outlaws. Not relevant to the issue but very interesting as I have not heard of the PCL described as an outlaw league elsewhere.