Just Venting about Paypal & Buyer

[Buythatcard]

I've been selling on eBay for about 10 years. I have mailed out over 50,000 cards but never had a situation like this.

A buyer from Canada bought a Mantle card from me for about $100. I was going to creating a shipping label thru eBay but the cheapest rate was around $25.00 if I wanted to include tracking. So, I took the chance of sending it First Class International without the tracking info. I did insure it thru a third party company.

I have done it this way before and have never had an issue.

If a card gets delayed or lost in the mail, buyers have always contacted me and I would work out something with them. This buyer decided to open a case with Paypal without contacting me first. So, I wrote him an email to ask him why he didn't contact me, he did not respond.

Now, Paypal gives me the option of refunding the money directly to the buyer or send proof that I shipped the card (my mistake was that I didn't opt for the tracking #).
This buyer has 6 feedbacks and I just don't feel right about what went down. I know I should have gotten the tracking # but why did this buyer not work directly with me?

I alos wrote to Paypal and explained my suspicions and they just responded that if I don't respond within 10 days they will pay the buyer. This is how I get treated after generating a fair amount of money for Paypal over time.

Because of this buyer I will no longer sell outside of the US.

Just wondering what others think about this.

[HRBAKER]

Sounds like you may be getting scammed but you never know. All buyers north of the border aren't bad apples though. Could you not just make it very clear in your listing that if the buyer is international that the shipping will be done with full tracking for both parties protection regardless of expense and that those costs will be passed along to the buyer?

[Ease]

Its at the point now that we have to send everything with tracking #'s or risk what this jerk buyer did to you. IMO there are a lot of people out there just hoping for no tracking # so they can get stuff for free.

[Buythatcard]

Jeff,

Thanks for your response. Your advice is good and I will consider it.

I have dealt with many buyers outside of the US and they all have been good except this one.

[mintacular]

I had a buyer from Canada buy a $300 card from me, I believe I charged $15 for ship and registered the card. A week or two later the buyer contacted me about where is the card, etc. and I said something about the card being registered...I then never heard back and assumed the card arrived. It is my suspicion that this buyer may have "kicking the tires" to see if I had registered or sent it express, and if not, was going to try and file a dispute, win it, and get the card for free. In short, I think Canadian scammers have found a loophole and are hoping U.S. shippers skip the $20 for registered or express mail and can win the card/get a refund.

[teetwoohsix]

Just a thought- would showing proof that is was insured by a third party be verification that it was shipped?

Sounds like you may have sold to a person who decided to take advantage of the fact that there was no tracking on the package. If that's the case- what a dirtbag. Hope it works out for you-

Sincerely, Clayton

[mintacular]

That said, I still do sell low dollar (under $50)to Canada as I don't think most scammers would risk exposing themselves over those amounts. have sent a couple dozen cards like this across the border and have not had any disputes filed...

[cardboardclassics]

This why I don't sell to Canada. The cost effective shipping options are not very good (especially when you have to get a signature). IMO it is not worth the time nor hassle to sell to Canadian buyers.

[painthistorian]

We usually ship par avion up to $150 and hope that the person is honest which for the most part is the the reality, only twice have I had to refund at this level..above this, you have to factor $15 to register item..usually I charge $10 to a person and eat the $5 as part of doing business, especially hockey cards......which Canada loves as much as baseball...the US and Canada post offices should have a Canada/US tracking joint delivery confirmation, charge accordingly(lets say $5 is fair) which will generate a new income and split this equal, the post office industry benefits and it would be a win win...I guess no one has taken the initiative!

[DixieBaseball]

Howard - Even though you don't have tracking #, you do have a Receipt from the USPS, that should show your shipment to that location. (Typically the tracking number is under that itemized shipment) That should be proof... Perhaps you don't have your receipt and if so, you may be out of luck. I typically get a delivery confirmation (Green Label) receipt and my USPS receipt where I paid is double the info to show proof of shipment.

Best of Luck, J

[byrone]

It goes both ways, folks.

As a Canadian, I ship to the U.S. knowing full-well the (unfair) rules that Paypal and Ebay have in place.

If I ship anything of value, I must have signature delivery confirmation to defend against Paypal claims. Either I charge the buyer the cost for this service or I figure it into the price of the item.

I have had many U.S. buyers file claims, nothing too costly, but that's the way the world works.

It would be unwise to stop mailing items to the U.S. because of a few bad apples, especially when insurance can be purchased and signature delivery is available.

Remember, there is a big market in Canada, and to just write the entire country off due to a few bad deals is not a good idea, in my opinion.

[Buythatcard]

I don't want to write off a whole country because of a few bad apples. Until I come up with a better way to ship, then I will ship outside of the U.S.

So far, I think the best way is to tell the buyer up front that they will be responsible for a portion of the S/H costs if its over a certain amount.

I can't include the S/H costs into the price of the item because I start off all items at .99.

[jester]

As a Canadian and someone who lives in a foreign country, I appreciate the sellers that do ship worldwide. Many times I have wanted to bid on something only to be rejected because they will not ship outside of USA. Most of us are willing to pay the tracking fees and myself, I insist on on it. The only problems I have had are with sellers who refuse to ship with tracking (for some reason) and say they cannot ship with tracking to my country.
Jeff

[bobbyw8469]

Bottom line - Internation shipping IS expensive! I charge $20+ (depending on the value of the card). If the buyer still wants to pay it, then I will sell it to them. Most of them balk at having to pay that high of a price, but I tell them it is to protect BOTH the buyer and the seller. International buyers that don't wish to pay, are just looking to scam anyway imho.....my 2 cents.

[Bilko G]

The rules are the rules and i don't mean to be a jerk, but you "gambled" on the rules and you got burned. It sucks, but its the truth. Did the buyer receive the card or not? Its really anyone's guess, but when you see a brand new Ebay account buying from you (especially on a $100+ item), whether or not its to Canada you get appropriate tracking, or you risk losing the card, that is a fact of doing business on Ebay.

I also don't think its fair (to Canadians and yourself) to "cut them off" from making future purchases from yourself, do to this one negative experience (you said it was your first). From now on just make a cut off amount that you can't afford to lose (some US sellers do $25, some $50, some $100 etc.) and then advertise and charge the appropriate shipping charge to get it registered to Canada. Problem Solved. Just be upfront with the registered shipping charges and you will find that on items of decent value, most Canadian buyers won't have a problem paying the charges and if they do they won't bid as you have the price advertised up front.

Considering that the US/Canada are connected to each other and our relations are so close, i wish there was a way that our two postal systems could better work together and be more reasonable on the (registered) shipping prices especially.

Like someone else mentioned, Canada is a huge market for Sports Cards as well, 2nd only to the USA. We love our Baseball and Hockey cards just as much as you guys

[baseball tourist]

I don't sell much anymore but have ruled out selling/shipping beyond Canada and the US as the tracking costs associated with international postage make the transactions unpalatable to many buyers. I ship with tracking only now but before I made this a rule I have had several US and a few Canadian buyers claim the items haven't arrived, yet strangely they didn't return to me. Of course eBay/paypal forced me to refund.

[pwilk17]

There are ebay scammers everywhere. If I had a buyer with 6 feedback, I would now track the item if I felt the value was signifigant enough whether the buyer was in the USA or Canada or overseas. Somehow this seems to have turned into a USA/Canadian shipping thread when the real problem is probably a scammer (an ass****). I have rec'd an item did not arrive claim from ebay with no notice from the buyer and no subsequent replies to any of my emails. At this point I realize I have been scammed and it does piss me off. There are not nice people eveywhere. I know USPS offers to track any package wihin USA for $0.70. Do they not offer the tracking service from USA to Canada for a relatively small amount? Also, do not just go by someones feedback - I have made that mistake to the loss of around $500. Shipped without tracking from Canada to a guy in West Virginia with solid feedback. Guy puts in an ebay claim saying items did not arrive on the first day he was allowed to do by ebay without even contacting me. Mail from Canada to USA can be slow and 7-10 days was way to early to pull the trigger. He would not and has not ever replied to any of my emails since his claim. His claim on the first day available to him from ebay for a refund without contacting me told me that he was holding his (previously my) 2 cards worth $500 while gleefully noting that there was no tracking number on my package. The Perfect Crime!

[Buythatcard]

I learned an expensive lesson this week. All your responses have been great and thanks for hearing me out.

I will probably continue to sell overseas but will lay it out front what the costs will be.

As far as Paypal, they give me the following options:

I have 10 days to respond with a tracking # (which I don't have). If I don't respond, the money will be refunded.
- or -
Refund the money to the buyer

Whichever way you look at it, I am refunding the money.

If you had a choice at this point, would you wait out the 10 days or would you send the money immediatly. Remember, that this buyer has refused to answer my emails and I have some suspicions about him.

[slidekellyslide]

I've said it before and I'll say it again....Canada has the WORST postal system in the world. I ship hockey cards worldwide nearly weekly and it's almost without fail I will get two or three "Where's my item?" ebay messages a week from Canadian buyers. I always have the same response..."It's probably still in your customs..give it another week or two and let me know if you got the card or not." Meanwhile I am receiving feedback from buyers in European countries only days after I've shipped First Class International.

[chaddurbin]

canada postal system does suck (alot), but to be fair they've been better lately than a couple years back. packages are getting there in about 5-6 business days now consistently. for that matter usps has also been great, first class packages taking only 2 days going from east coast to west vice-versa.

there are potential scammers anywhere. if it doesn't feel right just cancel the deal or send with tracking.

[sayhey24]

I don't understand why you'll be out any money. If you insured the Mantle card, and will have evidence from paypal that says the card never arrived, shouldn't you be able to collect on the insurance?

Greg

[D. Bergin]

I've had a doozy I've been going back and forth with Paypal for the past several weeks on a Domestic Order.

Customer placed a $30 order through one of my websites on December 3rd. Tracking says item was delivered on December 6th. Over a month later the customer claims an Un-Authorized transaction with their credit card company. Paypal freezes the funds in my account.

Paypal wants info from me regarding the transaction within 10 days. I immediately send it to them with tracking number. I get ahold of the customer, and they say "Oh, we're so sorry, we don't have a Paypal account and we didn't know what the charge was for".

We'll have our credit card company reverse the chargeback.

13 days later, Paypal sends me a message telling me they are disputing the chargeback on my behalf, but in the meantime we're going to subtract the cost of the order from your account...........+ we're going to bang you for a $20 chargeback fee, just because we can."

.......and paraphrasing "Oh, but don't worry, we're in your corner and you may or may not get your funds back in the next 75 days or so". Gee, thanks Paypal.

This is all after the customer told me they have already had the chargeback reversed through their credit card company.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

If you had a choice at this point, would you wait out the 10 days or would you send the money immediatly.

Personally i would wait it out. How long ago did you ship the card? (Canada/US times can be "hit or miss", at times i will get cards from the USA as fast as 3 or 4 business days, other times i wait 2 weeks to a month). Maybe it will arrive or if the buyer is scamming he will have a change of heart (doubtful). Regardless, i would wait the 10 days personally.