PSA/DNA Is Being Challenged by BGS/JSA

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

This is an interesting developement. James Spence is joining up with Beckett's to create a new product. They are willing to authenticate autographed cards and insert the card within a Beckett's holder. Seems like they are ready to take on PSA/DNA. Do you think they will be successful? Also, who does the authenticating for DNA?

Peter C.

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Posted By: Brian

I don't have any pre-war autographed cards.

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Posted By: T206Collector

I am eagerly anticipating the next alliance that SGC will forge. By not identifying their authenticators up front, PSA/DNA shields itself somewhat from the kind of fallout that Spence is currently under. You can switch out authenticators and nobody really knows (or even seems to care). That's why I originally went with SGC/JSA, because I wanted a name/reputation behind the cards I was having authenticated. But now I see the flip side to that story.

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Posted By: peter chao

I know about JSA's recent scandal, but aren't they still the best around?

Peter C.

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Posted By: pas

How is it that every single auction, month after month, manages to have multiple balls signed by Babe Ruth? Does anyone really believe they are genuine?

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Posted By: cmoking

Babe Ruth signed baseballs is one of the things I wouldn't consider touching.

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Posted By: pas

Peter C. perhaps he is the "best" but that doesn't mean much because the whole field is pretty suspect in my view unless you have strong provenance.

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Posted By: leon

In many areas of collecting there are more leaps of faith than in cards. (Though I guess that could be argued ) ....Autographs is one of those areas....*It all depends on how big of a leap of faith you are comfortable with? Personally, I am not comfortable with a leap at all....I have no opinion on JSA, as I have never submitted anything to them, and only know what I read and see. regards

edited for clarification

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Posted By: Scot

Babe Ruth was known to sit in motel open windows with boxes of baseballs and pen in hand. Tossing autographed balls to crowds for hours. Something to think about.

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Posted By: pas

Scot I am sure some of them are real. I just have my doubts whether Mr. Spence or anyone else can really tell.

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Posted By: T206Collector

I just spent $7 to go to the White Plains show this afternoon. The primary reason for my visit was to speak with the JSA folk about a number of issues, including: (a) the recent "scandal"; (b) their move from SGC to BVG; and (c) how they authenticated a few of my pre-war cards. It was a very enlightening conversation, and one that answers many of the questions that have been posed in recent weeks on this Board.

Since I viewed my conversation with them to be off the record, I am not going to share the details. Suffice to say, they were open and honest with me about all of the foregoing. If you are considering having a signature authenticated, or purchasing a signed piece of memorabilia, I would highly recommend giving them a call. For me, since I have a number of pre-war signed cards, it was well worth it.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I was once consigned a Babe Ruth signed baseball from a man who got the autograph himself when he was a boy.

In 1947, he was visiting a sick aunt in the hospital, and she told him that Babe Ruth was also a patient there. He remembers going to Ruth's room, and on the table next to his hospital bed was a stack of official American League baseballs in their original box! Ruth brought balls with him everywhere, even when he was in the early stages of terminal cancer.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Babe Ruth was known to sit in motel open windows with boxes of baseballs and pen in hand. Tossing autographed balls to crowds for hours. Something to think about.

Scot's correct. When they had the first induction at the Baseball HOF, they played an exhibition game. The joke was that they couldn't find a ball NOT autographed by Ruth to use in the game!

Frank

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Paul, glad that little mess is all cleared up -- was it just a one time error?

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Posted By: T206Collector

...too far into it. I had a long conversation with them today and am convinced that the circumstances or standards that applied to the erroneous Sal Bando authentication would not apply to authenticating a signature of any value on a blind submission.

I will also say that there was apparently more dialogue than the news report cared to air, and that the report was -- not surprisingly -- a bit skewed to painting JSA into a corner.

Certainly everyone at JSA is apologetic about the episode. And, like I said on the previous thread, I still think there really is no good excuse for what transpired. But I am still very comfortable with the standards and techniques they apply to pre-war autograph authentication, which is really all I care about.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I, too, would recommend sending an autograph into JSA -- if your only concern was resale. As for my comfort level in buying something with a JSA authencation: after seeing that JSA buffoon on the video crowing his BS, I'd have a hard time buying anything for my personal collection with their seal of approval behind it.

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Posted By: Chris David

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Posted By: T206Collector

Jeff,

This will work out great -- you can sell all your JSA pre-war cards; and I can buy them!

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Posted By: DJ

Seems like they are ready to take on PSA/DNA. Do you think they will be successful? Also, who does the authenticating for DNA?

Spence left like two-three years ago and it's been Steve Grad and a bunch of others at the helm.

Why should anything change with Spence? After all, all it means is that Spence will be authenticating for Beckett, instead of SGC.

After someone is caught in a foolish manner, there are always a bunch of excuses.

Look at those who got busted on HBO Real Sports. Chris Morales offers a giant explanation on his web site and SCD allowed Ted Taylor to print up his his own version of the tale in the magazine.

What kind of explanation could any of these authenticating firms really have? They were tested and they looked bad...fin that phailed..."failed miserably".

Move on.

As far as the amount of Ruth's, the unfortunate part of it all is that probably every Ruth ball that he signed in that photo ended up in a Golden Retriever's mouth. Back about 15 years ago, you saw maybe one 8/10 (grade) single signed ball a year in one of the major catalogs. Today, there are like six-eight auction houses and they seem to have multiples in every auction. Please.

DJ