T206 Southern Leaguers, any more valuable?

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Posted By: dave

i'm just curious out of all the southern leaguers, are any certain ones considered more rare or valuable? I read something about the texas leagues are worth a bit more? If so, what teams would that include?

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Posted By: JimB

On a related topic, I have always felt that a premium for Hindu Southern Leaguers seemed a bit odd. Southern Leaguers are tough because they are only available with Hindu, and Old Mill. Paying an additional premium seems redundant to me.
JimB

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Jim,
Are you kidding?? Try Piedmont, Old Mill and then less than 5% are Hindu. I've been working on a Hindu set for more years than I care to count, and still need 3 to complete me.... Be well Brian

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Dave,

I don't think that the Texas League subjects do (or should) command any premium over other southern leaguers. Among the Texas League subjects, C. Smith and Stark are about as difficult as a typical South Atlantic, Southern and Virginia League subject but the other four Texas League subjects are noticeably easier. That said, the most common of the southern leaguers by far are the two Danville players--Westlake and King (in that order). I'm not sure why that is--I would love for someone to offer a theory on that.

Scot

P.S. I have to agree with Brian that Hindu southern leaguers deserve a premium over other southern leaguers. The vast majority of southern league specimens have an Old Mill or Piedmont reverse. I'm sure most on this board would strongly favor a Hindu example to an Old Mill or Piedmont example.

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Posted By: Cobby33

I third the notion that Hindu Southerners command a premium, given the scarcity of thos backs on Southern Leaguers.

I've also heard the notion that the 3 N.O. players (Breitenstein, Fritz and Reagan) are more sought-after than most of the others, especially the Breitenstein.

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Posted By: JimB

Brian,
I have not intentionally pursued Hindus among Southern Leaguers, but they seemed to come up for me with nearly as much regularity as Old Mill and Piedmont. I am only speaking about SLs, not in general. When I get a chance I will go through my set and see if my general impression matches the reality of what I have.
JimB

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Posted By: Anonymous

thats what i was curious about, having the C Smith if that brought anymore of a premium graded than any of the others

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Posted By: Cobby33

Here is a random sampling of 20 Southerners to close on eBay in the last week:

Piedmont: 13
Old Mill: 7
Hindu: 0

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Jim,
I'd love to know what you find in your set. In the past, location was the key for collectors, different brands and players were distributed in seperate regions, so it would have been very difficult to put together a set. Then came the card shows in the late 70's early 80's which helped distibute the cards around the country. And today with the Internet, the possibilities are endless. Who knows Board 54 might actually put a super set together someday. Be well Brian

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Here are the data from my survey of 603 southern leaguers:

South Atlantic, Southern and Virginia Leaguers (sample size = 497):

Old Mill Southern = 51.7%
Piedmont 350 = 44.8%
Brown Hindu = 3.5%

Texas Leaguers (sample size = 106):

Piedmont 350 = 69.3%
Old Mill Southern = 30.7%

Overall, Brown Hindu appeared on 17 out of 603 specimens in the survey, or 2.8%. To me that is worthy of a premium above the normal southern leaguer premium.

Scot

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

From two recent large collections of T206's that I acquired here is the So. Lge. cards
breakdown....

FLORIDA collection....

22 - PIEDMONT's (45.8%)

21 - OLD MILL's (42.3%)

5 --- HINDU's (11.9%)


Original SO. CAROLINA collection....

8 -- PIEDMONT's (16.8%)

40 - OLD MILL's (83.2%)

0 --- HINDU's

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Geez Ted,
You must have a lot of SLers!
Scot

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hindu Southern leaguers have always been much tougher than Piedmont and Old Mill, and Ted's two finds- boy those are a lot of Southern leaguers- proves it, assuming that is a large enough sample. Also, re: Cobby's comment that New Orleans players get a premium, while I am not aware of that is it possible because Joe Jackson was on that team? Also, if memory serves, Breitenstein threw a no-hitter in the major leagues.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BARRY S.

Ted Breitenstein.....if memory serves me right.....threw a no-hitter in his
very 1st game in the Majors. I think it was for his hometown team St. Louis (N)
in 1892.

Ted was a short guy like me and he was named after me.....Ha !
Hey....what can I say....some think I was born back in the 19th Century.

Anyhow....does anyone know if any other pitcher has accomplished this fete ?

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: barrysloate

A no hitter in his first game- I didn't know that. Sanchez just threw one in like his 12th game, and I remember the A's had a pitcher in 1970 who threw one in one of his very first starts. I also watched on TV Les Rohr- do I have the name right?- pitch one for the Red Sox against the Yankees with two outs in the 9th inning and lost it- and pretty much disappeared from baseball. I think others on the board can fill in these two details better.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It was Billy Rohr. Les Rohr pitched for the Mets about the same time. Billy was with the Red Sox only in 1967.

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Posted By: Millerhouse

Though this is badly out of my era of expertise, isn't throwing a no-hitter in his first major league start Bobo Holloman's only claim to fame?

Dan

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think you may be right. That name sticks out. And I think it was Elston Howard who got the hit off Rohr with two outs in the 9th, and it might have been his first start. Come on, somebody on this board can fill in the details on these games. I'm old and forgetful.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

Friday, April 14th
IN THE NEWS: At Yankee Stadium, Red Sox rookie Bill Rohr debuts and startles everyone by taking a no-hitter into the 9th inning. But Elston Howard lines a 3-2 pitch for a single to right-center with two outs. Carl Yastrzemski had kept the no-hitter alive with a spectacular grab of a Tom Tresh drive to deep LF to open the 9th. The Red Sox win 3–0, beating Whitey Ford, who allows a lead off homer to Reggie Smith and a two-run homer to Joe Foy.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I watched it on TV.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Brian,
Which 3 are you missing?

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Posted By: JimB

Brian,
I just went through my complete set and I have only 3 SL Hindus. I have a few more Piedmonts than Old Mill. I guess my unscientific impression was wrong. I know that I have passed on some Hindus because of the premium, but that does not account for this type of discrepency. It seems the evidence is stacked against my impressions. Oh well.
JimB

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Posted By: Cobby33

Below is a link to some really interesting "no hitter" facts: Here are some T206'ers who are in the elite group: Breitenstein (as Barry pointed out); Cy Young (1st game); Deacon Phillippe; Vic Willis; Mathewson (x2); Hooks Wiltse; Rube Marquard; Jimmy Lavender (1st game). Forgive me if I missed any T206'ers or included any who weren't in T206...

Also, as far as New Orleans players commanding somewhat of a premium- Barry's point re: Joe Jackson, IMO, is accurate. Also- given the weather in that region, many collections, as I understand it, have unfortunately been lost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-hitter