Heritage auctions a joke

[ibuysportsephemera]

The BP is known and experienced bidders factor the cost of the BP into the final amount. My problem with almost all of the AH's is the outrageous S&H that most charge. These are the unadvertised charges that seem arbitrary and really drive up the cost of bidding. How about at least giving us a range of your S&H fees, so it is not a surprise after the auction is over?


Jeff

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Sent an email about consigning to Heritage, Goldin, Lelands, REA, MEARS, SCP, Memory Lane, and Love of the Game, partly so many as a test.

Heritage, SCP and Love of the Game didn't even respond.

Goldin, Memory Lane, Lelands, REA, and MEARS all replied whether they wanted the item or not, some did, some did not. It's called common courtesy and the Customer Service to get me back.

The others I can cross off the list.

The industry standard is mediocrity...though some here sound afraid to admit it. Until someone comes along and forces them to improve it will be status quo. They've gotten away with since ancient Rome I hear.

[Snapolit1]

REA.

As a courtesy to bidders, REA will be paying for all packing, shipping, and insurance charges for winning bidders, pro-vided payment is received within 14 days in accordance with section 26 of these terms and conditions, with the following ex-
ceptions: 1) International shipments. If you are shipping to an address outside of the United States, you must pay all packing, shipping, and insurance charges. If you are an international bidder who desires to have your item shipped to a US address, we will gladly do this for you and offer free shipping where applicable. 2) Unusually large or heavy items inherently requiring significant special packing, crat-ing, and shipping (such as stadium seats and large photographic displays). These lots are clearly identified in their respective descrip-tions as requiring special packing and shipping charges. Winners of these lots will be billed for packing, shipping, and insurance charg-es with a separate shipping invoice (to allow us to communicate with winners to be responsive to their shipping preferences).

[T206Collector]

It is very disappointing to learn that I am competing against collectors who do not factor in the BP, S/H and Sales Taxes when they bid. If we both value the same card equally, I will always lose because after the fact the collector didn't realize he was paying more than its worth!

I recently dropped out of bidding on an item in Heritage because the same grade of the same card was available on ebay for less -- but only if you realized that the BP, S/H and Sales Tax was going to push you over that line. And it finally explains why that phenomenon occurs.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Don’t ever start an auction business. You’ll go under in 3-6 months. It’s a BUSINESS, not a soup kitchen!

How is REA doing with their no handling charges? Maybe I will run an auction house after their model.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Ebay is not an auction house. Ebay is a platform an auction house (or private person) uses. Ebay is the equivalent of SimpleAuctionsite or CreateAuction. Seller's simply use Ebay's platform.

Wrong. It's an auction house. Probably the biggest in the world.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

During Hurricane Sandy your options were severely limited. So you don't have to buy in either scenario...but if you choose not to, you go without.

So now you're comparing price gouging during an emergency to an internet sports memorabilia auction? Analogies are not your strong suit.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

REA.

As a courtesy to bidders, REA will be paying for all packing, shipping, and insurance charges for winning bidders, pro-vided payment is received within 14 days in accordance with section 26 of these terms and conditions, with the following ex-
ceptions: 1) International shipments. If you are shipping to an address outside of the United States, you must pay all packing, shipping, and insurance charges. If you are an international bidder who desires to have your item shipped to a US address, we will gladly do this for you and offer free shipping where applicable. 2) Unusually large or heavy items inherently requiring significant special packing, crat-ing, and shipping (such as stadium seats and large photographic displays). These lots are clearly identified in their respective descrip-tions as requiring special packing and shipping charges. Winners of these lots will be billed for packing, shipping, and insurance charg-es with a separate shipping invoice (to allow us to communicate with winners to be responsive to their shipping preferences).

With all due respect, ONE Auction house has ultimately decided to absorb the shipping related costs against their revenue. ONE out of the “x” number of a seemingly infinite number of auction houses. I tip my hat to Brian for somehow getting to a level where he can absorb these costs, but that doesn’t make it the standard and/or appropriate practice for a profitable business model. Shipping and handling is a significant cost with regard to postage fees, INSURANCE, and labor costs. I was a Controller at MetLife for 20+ years and perfectly understsnd the rationale for monitoring expenses vs. revenue. Bottom line is the success of any business practice all boils down to their respective earnings results.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

How does REA get by with no shipping or handling fees. (I don't think.)

Poor guys must be starving to death.

It is impossible to say without knowing how much REA averages on the seller's premium.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

It is very disappointing to learn that I am competing against collectors who do not factor in the BP, S/H and Sales Taxes when they bid. If we both value the same card equally, I will always lose because after the fact the collector didn't realize he was paying more than its worth!

I recently dropped out of bidding on an item in Heritage because the same grade of the same card was available on ebay for less -- but only if you realized that the BP, S/H and Sales Tax was going to push you over that line. And it finally explains why that phenomenon occurs.

+1000. It simply amazes me that there are still collectors who don’t bid according to the buyers premium that is part of the item’s total value/cost. Once again, the buyer’s premium does NOT impact the buyer; it negatively impacts the CONSIGNOR. If there was no Buyers Premium, the hammer bids would simply be 15-20% higher.

[ALR-bishop]

With all the money you made in the REA auction Larry maybe Heritage just thought you could afford it

[Snapolit1]

If I ran an AH or was employed by one, I would appreciate the optics of a stupid handling charge on top of a commission on top of a shipping charge. If you need money that badly, I'd bury the cost in the BP or shipping, and not have yet another line item appearing on the customer's invoice. It has nothing to do with controlling costs, but in avoiding common sense things that suggest to your client's price gouging.

If you including the internet and breakfast into the price of the hotel room and don't charge $15 for each believe me you will get a lot fewer complaints. It's called common sense.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

So now you're comparing price gouging during an emergency to an internet sports memorabilia auction? Analogies are not your strong suit.

And refuting them is not yours.

I'm sure the AHs are barely making ends meet with their inflated buyer's premiums and oh so exorbitant extra slow shipping charges.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

+1000. It simply amazes me that there are still collectors who don’t bid according to the buyers premium that is part of the item’s total value/cost. Once again, the buyer’s premium does NOT impact the buyer; it negatively impacts the CONSIGNOR. If there was no Buyers Premium, the hammer bids would simply be 15-20% higher.

False

It's not part of the total cost...It's an add on. In almost all cases the item can be had for less on eBay.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If I ran an AH or was employed by one, I would appreciate the optics of a stupid handling charge on top of a commission on top of a shipping charge. If you need money that badly, I'd bury the cost in the BP or shipping, and not have yet another line item appearing on the customer's invoice. It has nothing to do with controlling costs, but in avoiding common sense things that suggest to your client's price gouging.

If you including the internet and breakfast into the price of the hotel room and don't charge $15 for each believe me you will get a lot fewer complaints. It's called common sense.

True, but the customer/client typically will never be satisfied and then complain about the augmented hotel rate! Bottom line is everyone wants something for nothing, and for the most part, that is NOT the world we live in.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

With all due respect, ONE Auction house has ultimately decided to absorb the shipping related costs against their revenue.

Any of the auction houses can absorb these costs if they want to. Assuming that buyer's premiums are equal, the auction houses can just make it up with their seller's premium. For example, if REA can charge an extra 1% seller's premium across the board in one of their $10,000,000 auctions then I would bet that extra $100,000 more than covers that free shipping.

At the end of the day, as long as the charges are disclosed, then a buyer should just figure out what is the NET number that he is willing to pay for an item and discount that number by the different charges and bid that number.

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

False

It's not part of the total cost...It's an add on. In almost all cases the item can be had for less on eBay.

Unfortunately in my case this is not the case. If it were I would just be buying on eBay.

[bensie]

Originally Posted by sflayank

Everyone here knows what its about
GREED...
why charge the same bp for 50 card as a 70 card..GREED
.btw...after i saw the invoice it took 20 minutes on their website to find their rules
Ive been bidding in all auctions as u guys know for 20 years...
So i ended up paying 50% over the price of the card
Imagine winning a 50 card in NY
50 +14 +13+6...$83
66% over the price of the card
GREED GREED GREED

They're running a business, not a charity. I fail to understand how some of you simply can't grasp that concept. Read the T&C before bidding. If you don't like them, don't bid. There are several auction houses I won't place bids with because the terms are unfavorable to me.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If I ran an AH or was employed by one, I would appreciate the optics of a stupid handling charge on top of a commission on top of a shipping charge. If you need money that badly, I'd bury the cost in the BP or shipping, and not have yet another line item appearing on the customer's invoice. It has nothing to do with controlling costs, but in avoiding common sense things that suggest to your client's price gouging.

If you including the internet and breakfast into the price of the hotel room and don't charge $15 for each believe me you will get a lot fewer complaints. It's called common sense.

Note to all auction houses;

Remove ANY listed charges from Steve's invoices including shipping and handling, and triple his BP.... he'll be happy with paying a lot more in the end as long as an additional "line" doesn't show up on his invoice...

"It's called common sense"

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Sent an email about consigning to Heritage, Goldin, Lelands, REA, MEARS, SCP, Memory Lane, and Love of the Game, partly so many as a test.

Heritage, SCP and Love of the Game didn't even respond.

Goldin, Memory Lane, Lelands, REA, and MEARS all replied whether they wanted the item or not, some did, some did not. It's called common courtesy and the Customer Service to get me back.

The others I can cross off the list.

Ok since I've posted this both Love of the Game and Heritage have replied, so not sure if this post did the trick or what, but giving them the benefit of the doubt regardless, I do apologize to both as they too have now replied.

Only SCP has not. Problem out at the beach instead of in the office this past week.

Oh and Heritage said they have a $5000 minimum consignment, that's news to me as I have consigned to them 3-4 separate occasions in the past and never met that $$$ amount. Close but not 5K. Hmmmm.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

False

It's not part of the total cost...It's an add on. In almost all cases the item can be had for less on eBay.

That is completely false in my experience. PWCC holds half the highs on commodity cards I would bet.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

False

It's not part of the total cost...It's an add on. In almost all cases the item can be had for less on eBay.

With all due respect you are 100% incorrect. Fur example, if a card is worth say $100, a collector typically bids roughly $80 because they know with the BP they will be paying close to that $100 value. If there was no BP (like eBay), they would bid up to $100. That is COMMON knowledge, and I would estimate that at least 90% (conservatively) of Collector’s realize that concept.

[insidethewrapper]

I agree, with all the money they pull in , you would think they could design a website which is easy to understand and use. So confusing.

[oldjudge]

There is no web site more transparent than Heritage. Every bid shows what your bid is both with and without the buyers premium. The solution for the OP is easy. If you don't want to pay the fully disclosed charges in the future, don't bid. My guess is that somehow Heritage will make it through without you.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The site explicitly tells you how much BP is going to be added to your "bid." It does the math for you. What more can you possibly want?

Hey, Larry, how about answering this?? Because YOU clicked the bid button, which stated exactly how much you were paying with buyer's premium. To complain about it now makes you look like a whiner.

[Catsavior]

First off greetings to everyone as I am a fairly new member and have not yet made a post. I do surf the pre WWII forums since I collect T206 and other oddball old stuff. I buy from many auction houses and I think Heritage is the only one that uses a flat buyers premium up to a certain dollar amount that then switches over to a percentage. All they are doing is protecting the profits, which is all fine and dandy.

My issue is with the shipping. Yes the packaging will be the only thing left if a nuclear bomb falls on my house, but they are still making a nice tidy profit above and beyond the buyers premium. I looked through some old invoices.

Auction House Date Card Quantity Value Cost for Shipping
Heritage 5/30/17

[Catsavior]

First off greetings to everyone as I am a fairly new member and have not yet made a post. I do surf the pre WWII forums since I collect T206 and other oddball old stuff. I buy from many auction houses and I think Heritage is the only one that uses a flat buyers premium up to a certain dollar amount that then switches over to a percentage. All they are doing is protecting the profits, which is all fine and dandy.

My issue is with the shipping. Yes the packaging will be the only thing left if a nuclear bomb falls on my house, but they are still making a nice tidy profit above and beyond the buyers premium. I looked through some old invoices.

Auction House Date Card Quantity Value Cost for Shipping
Heritage 5/30/17 1 $126.00 $10.30
Heritage

[Catsavior]

Sorry for the double post and cut-off
Heritage charged me $8.00 to ship two cards value at $74.00 on 5/15/17. On 7/16/17 they charged me $12.65 to ship one card value at $52.00. On 10/28/17 Sterling charged me $18.00 shipping for twenty-nine card value at $1200.00. Both auction houses packaged well and the stuff got here quickly. To Heritage's credit they do list everything on website. You just need to be careful when calculating the total value of a bid.
Michael Schlegel

[sflayank]

1st of all the thread is for information purposes only
Those who cant read or understand shouldnt respond
Everyone knows theres a 20 % buyers premium...duh
Show me where it says
Sorry but we need to make money on postage and charge tax on it
Either way not the point
Point is now everyone is aware of the fact...period
To the person who thinks their website is good...congrats...youre a unique person

[RedsFan1941]

i think you are the last person who should criticize people who don't "read or understand"

[sflayank]

So based on the last few posts
Their postage charge is just random
Hmmmm

[Peter_Spaeth]

In a hobby rife with fraud of all sorts, including rampant card alteration, nothing seems to get people going like shipping charges.

Federal jury finds an elite hobby figure fraudulently manipulated the market? Yawn. Heritage overcharges a few bucks for shipping? Earthquake!!!!!

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by sflayank

So based on the last few posts
Their postage charge is just random
Hmmmm

thank you for making my point: i think you are the last person who should criticize people who don't "read or understand"

[Fballguy]

All that being said...lo and behold...I receive shipping confirmation from Heritage today. Finally...only 10 days after Paypal payment.

Coincidence I'm sure.

[sflayank]

.
My generation learned how to read
2 cards $72+ $8postage
1 card $50+ $10 postage
1 card $65 $13 postage
Seems pretty random to me
Closed conversation...

[markf31]

Originally Posted by sflayank

Point is now everyone is aware of the fact...period

Yes, now we are all aware of the fact that you either didn't read, or didn't understand, or chose to ignore the user agreement that you explicitly agreed to by registering and then bidding with Heritage. Got it.

[BeanTown]

To the OP, did you win anything from Christies? Would like to hear your thoughts about their shipping charges. I completely agree with Jay that Heritages website is really good. It takes little time to figure out how to navigate it, and once you do.... You will agree its pretty darn good.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

With all due respect you are 100% incorrect. Fur example, if a card is worth say $100, a collector typically bids roughly $80 because they know with the BP they will be paying close to that $100 value. If there was no BP (like eBay), they would bid up to $100. That is COMMON knowledge, and I would estimate that at least 90% (conservatively) of Collector’s realize that concept.

Joe, you're being kind on that 90% figure.

[Exhibitman]

Heritage also has a shipping calculator. I won a lot in the last auction and knew going in what the BP was and what the shipping was. The invoice was within a few cents of the estimate that was readily calculated with the info available before I bid. It can't get much more transparent and idiot-proof than that, though I do understand that idiots are quite ingenious.

As for the taxes, again, the AH has to remit the taxes--or you do via the use tax. They don't make a dime on that; it is in fact a big cost center because someone has to track, remit and file returns all across the country for all the sales. Heritage just happens to have facilities in several jurisdictions, so it is obliged to collect the tax. Real convenient when you want to have a rep pick up a big consignment. Not so much if you want to dodge your tax obligations.

[slipk1068]

What kills me is AH's that charge 10% sellers premium on top of a 20% BP. What entitles these people to 30% of my collection?

Defenders are going to come up with all sorts of reasons why this is acceptable as well as negotiable, but I still say it is wrong. When I am ready to sell, I will shop my collection as if it is worth 1K, and consign everything to a big AH that doesn't gouge the little guy.

[Exhibitman]

David, as you say, it is negotiable. I cannot recall the last time I paid a commission/sellers premium/whatever you call it. There is an AH that will work with most any consignment. You just may not get REA or Heritage interested.

As for why they deserve to get paid, well, selling is a heck of a lot of work. All you ever see is the end product. Someone has to market and get the consignments, take photos, write copy, create the web site, load the images and copy, set pricing, collect funds, account for funds, remit to the appropriate persons, pack and ship orders, handle customer service, run the back office parts of the business, etc.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

What kills me is AH's that charge 10% sellers premium on top of a 20% BP. What entitles these people to 30% of my collection?

Defenders are going to come up with all sorts of reasons why this is acceptable as well as negotiable, but I still say it is wrong. When I am ready to sell, I will shop my collection as if it is worth 1K, and consign everything to a big AH that doesn't gouge the little guy.

Nothing entitles anyone to anything. There is no coercion, only voluntary private contracts. If you don't want to consign, don't, it's that simple. Shop for a better rate. Or sell yourself.

[sb1]

There are other options out there.

In a perfect world the AH would charge no consignors fee, a very low buyers fee(say 12 1/2%) charge at or near actual shipping plus insurance(often less than actual) AND pay consignors two weeks after the auction ends.

If you would like to find this AH, PM me and I can hook you up!


Scott

p.s. my current auction ends Saturday June 2nd.

www.brockelmanauctions.com

[barrysloate]

None of the fees are hidden so do a few quick calculations before you bid. Yes, Heritage can be a bit pricey and I think you do a little better bidding on higher value items with them. If you win a $75 card you will probably get hit with some higher costs.

I have no problem with Heritage charging sales tax because it is the law and they have to. And they are not keeping one penny of it, as all they collect goes to the government. My only issue is it is hard for me to be competitive when another bidder is free of the sales tax obligation. He has a nearly one increment advantage over me so it makes it more difficult to win something.

So I prefer bidding with an auction house that doesn't need to charge me the tax. But I don't begrudge those who do, and I calculate everything before I bid. If you think a company charges you too much, find another to do business with. There is no shortage of auction houses.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by sb1

There are other options out there.

In a perfect world the AH would charge no consignors fee, a very low buyers fee(say 12 1/2%) charge at or near actual shipping plus insurance(often less than actual) AND pay consignors two weeks after the auction ends.

If you would like to find this AH, PM me and I can hook you up!


Scott

p.s. my current auction ends Saturday June 2nd.

www.brockelmanauctions.com

Still don't know how you do it. My Parsippany auction is $6 flat consignor's fee per lot ($3 for N54 members) and 10% BP for live cash bidders, 13% for live cc bidders and 18% for absentee.

The Other Scott

P.S. We have an auction Tuesday. Since we're plugging

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by sb1

There are other options out there.

In a perfect world the AH would charge no consignors fee, a very low buyers fee(say 12 1/2%) charge at or near actual shipping plus insurance(often less than actual) AND pay consignors two weeks after the auction ends.

If you would like to find this AH, PM me and I can hook you up!


Scott

p.s. my current auction ends Saturday June 2nd.

www.brockelmanauctions.com

Scott--That can't be. It's too good to be true. Certainly only a mad man would dream of such a thing.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

+1000. It simply amazes me that there are still collectors who don’t bid according to the buyers premium that is part of the item’s total value/cost. Once again, the buyer’s premium does NOT impact the buyer; it negatively impacts the CONSIGNOR. If there was no Buyers Premium, the hammer bids would simply be 15-20% higher.

Agreed

[CW]

Originally Posted by sflayank

.
My generation learned how to read
2 cards $72+ $8postage
1 card $50+ $10 postage
1 card $65 $13 postage
Seems pretty random to me
Closed conversation...

I can't say for certain, but if they use FedEx for delivery the cost can be based on distance from shipping point to destination. That might explain the variations in shipping charges.

[Kenny Cole]

As the saying goes, vote with your feet. If you don't like the situation, don't bid with them. That's the decision I made, although it wasn't based on shipping charges. Pretty easy and I don't regret it at all.

[RedsFan1941]

the assumption that an auction house is an auction house is an auction house amuses me in threads like this. while i think all AHs should provide certain essentials and services, the reality is our hobby has two major auction houses, some midsize ones, some that are run almost as a hobby or second source of income by their owners and others that literally consist of one person who could afford the auction software. when you consider the different margins (not to mention goals of the owners involved) it's not surprising things like shipping time, consignor checks and customer service vary. i can almost guarantee that if i started an AH with the business model of using it to sell things from my collection and take whatever consignments trickled in, i would be one of the most competitive in the hobby.