My PSA Story - *Update*

[John V]

Okay...Let me start by saying I should have left well enough alone.

In 2003, I sent my 1955 Topps Clemente card to PSA for grading. I had the card for many years, and not knowing much about card grading, was sure I had a high grade card. So it came back PSA 4 and I accepted that.

A few years ago, after finding this board, I learned about SGC and like many, preferred the way cards looked in the SGC holder. Off my Clemente went to SGC. It came back a 50 VG/EX 4. No harm done and it looked great in the SGC holder.

Now in 2011, I decided to start working on a base set of PSA Clemente cards. See where this is going? While making great progress on my set, I decided my 1955 needed to be back in a PSA holder, so I broke it out and submitted it to PSA a couple of weeks ago.

I received my email from PSA stating my submission was complete and in the mail. Roberto received a grade of PSA 3...ugh! Immediately, I wondered what I could do to get my 4 back. (I know this might be laughable to high end collectors)

Yesterday, the mailman delivered my cards. Believe it not, the 1955 holder was damaged. Not very impressive packaging, I might add. I recovered a couple small pieces of loose plastic and the card is fine.

I'll be in touch with PSA tomorrow and I'm sure the card is going back. I'm thinking of taking the opportunity to plead my case regarding the grade history. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should handle and is there anyone in particular I should talk to?

Regards,
John

[jg8422]

I bet they say something about how they (PSA) are not responsible and cannot guarantee the grade once it is removed from their holder.

Keep us posted.

[toledo_mudhen]

Good luck with all of that - You could always elminate the problem (how the PSA Grader feels on any given day) by simply choosing SGC for all submissions in the future. (IMHO)

[novakjr]

Crack it and submit it again in a few weeks. Hell, it might come back a 5...

[Brendan]

You're likely not getting that old grade back. There's decent odds that the card is now a VG instead of a VG-EX. I'd be happy they at least graded it. Some of us have had experiences where we cracked a card out of a case, only for it to be deemed unauthentic by the same company that graded it.

If you think it's a 4, then go ahead and do what novakjr suggests.

Originally Posted by jg8422

I bet they say something about how they (PSA) are not responsible and cannot guarantee the grade once it is removed from their holder.

Well, it really should be this way. (concerning condition) If one was to crack a PSA 8 out and the card became creased, should it still be an 8? Of course not.

[Jewish-collector]

Bring the package just like the way you got it in the mail to the National and show Joe Orlando in person.

[John V]

Thanks for the comments. Is there anyone in particular I should ask for when I call customer service on Monday?

[glchen]

You won't get the old grade back. They can always say there's no way to know if you damaged the card when cracking it out of the slab. However, if you're okay w/ keeping the current grade, PSA will reholder the card for free and send it back to you free of charge since it was damaged due to their packaging issues. I've had this happen to me before. You do have to pay for postage sending the card to them, however. (SGC is the same way, and they've also send cards in damaged slabs to me too.)

[smtjoy]

I would just resubmit it to PSA raw. I had a semi expensive card $300+ that I subbed 4 times about 5 years ago- the grades went 4, 2, 3, 5. Under a loope the card looked like an ex card to me, sucked subbing it that many times and wasting fees it finally did get the grade I expected. I did sell it a few years later and made a hefty profit on it so it worked out for me but thats not always the case.

Taught me a lot about the grading game, its a lot like vegas, luck matters and the TPG's are not as consistent as I had hoped.

[jg8422]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

I would just resubmit it to PSA raw. I had a semi expensive card $300+ that I subbed 4 times about 5 years ago- the grades went 4, 2, 3, 5. Under a loope the card looked like an ex card to me, sucked subbing it that many times and wasting fees it finally did get the grade I expected. I did sell it a few years later and made a hefty profit on it so it worked out for me but thats not always the case.

Taught me a lot about the grading game, its a lot like vegas, luck matters and the TPG's are not as consistent as I had hoped.

As there is some level of subjectivity in grading I am not surprised by the same card getting 2 different grades. However, for the exact same card to get a grade of 2 and then a 5 is discraceful. That makes the whole grading industry look like a joke. Personally, I am big fan of grading, as it has done a ton of great things for the hobby. However, I can also understand why some people hate the grading process. As for my experience, it is usually the raw card sellers who do not like grading b/c they try to sell their raw cards at the PSA 7 grade when they aren't even close to a 7.

Thoughts on grading or how it is even possible for the same card to get a 2 one day and a 5 the next day?

[joeadcock]

Scott

Interesting story of how different a grade the same card can get on resubmission.

I submitted a Mello Mint card to PSA and SCG and both said no grade due to a strange looking color on one corner of card. Took one more shot and sent it back to SGC, graded it SGC 10. Card is nice except for that strange looking faded color on the corner.

[chaddurbin]

ask for cosetta when you call on monday...have read good things about her and seems like she knows what she's talking about.

or don't bother with it and submit raw...the most they'd do is reslab it in a 3 holder anyway. you are a dream to TPGs and registries. you would've submitted the same card 4 different times to get back the same grade (hopefully).

[cozmokramer]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

ask for cosetta when you call on monday...have read good things about her and seems like she knows what she's talking about.

or don't bother with it and submit raw...the most they'd do is reslab it in a 3 holder anyway. you are a dream to TPGs and registries. you would've submitted the same card 4 different times to get back the same grade (hopefully).

Cosetta is always a pleasure to deal with. I communicate with her once a week at least and she's always very fast to respond to everything.

[E93]

If you have a scan of it in a PSA 4 holder, that might help. If they can see that there has been no significant change to the condition, you might have a better case. I can understand why PSA won't guarantee a re-grade after you have cracked the holder. Who knows what has happened to it? If you can clearly show that nothing has happened to it, you might have a shot.
JimB

[bobbyw8469]

I bet they say something about how they (PSA) are not responsible and cannot guarantee the grade once it is removed from their holder

Funny...I got the same story told to me from SGC when their SGC '3' turned into an SGC 'trimmed'......

Some of us have had experiences where we cracked a card out of a case, only for it to be deemed unauthentic by the same company that graded it.

You said that right brother!

[bunst]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Funny...I got the same story told to me from SGC when their SGC '3' turned into an SGC 'trimmed'......


You said that right brother!

Yikes, SGC better hope not too many see that; not good a good advertisement. First issue being the change from a "3" to trimmed, the second being why only a "3" to begin with.

[bobbyw8469]

That is why I cracked it out. I have NUMEROUS Sport Kings cards, as I am working on the set. I have it on my registry. That card, by far, was the best looking '3' on any of them. I sent it under a more expensive special, because I thought '5' being the MINIMUM grade it would get. Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined the card coming back as 'trimmed'. Just goes to show the problems with crackouts, and the inconsistencies with BOTH grading companies!

[bbcard1]

Rule of thumb: Crack it, give it to a dealer who does a lot of business with a particular company, have him submit it, wait for the higher grade to roll in. Certainly, I am wrong about a lot of things and this is just opinion, but it would seem there is a lot of evidence that slabbing is a fixed game. If you know that going in, do you really have a right to complain?

[Griffins]

I've had the same thing happen with both companies. Grades going up and down, rejections for trimming only to get slabbed the next time.
I had one card I knew was a 7, it graded 6,3,3,3 and finally a 7. Nothing was ever done other than cracking it out and sending it back in.
I did talk to one dealer at the National that said he'll crack and resubmit a card up to a dozen times to get the grade he wants/deserves.

[Kzoo]

I bought about 50 real nice 1955 topps baseball cards from the original collector a couple years ago with expectations that most would grade PSA 8 or higher. Out of those real nice cards, one in particular stood out.....it was Stan Hack and I thought it had a chance at a 9. I sent about 15 cards in at first with the Hack among them. Most came back as PSA 8's, one PSA 8.5, and then Hack with an 'evidence of trim' label. I knew for sure it wasn't trimmed because they came from the kid who opened the packs himself back in '55. So, I sent another group of '55 topps in a month or so later, with the Stan Hack again, and this time I got more PSA 8's, some 7.5's and the Hack slabbed in it's correctly graded holder, a PSA 9.

I know it's not an exact science and it's frustrating at times dealing with the grading companies, and I actually had mixed feelings after getting the Hack back the 2nd time because I personally strive to do things right the first time, but I keep going back for more..........isn't that the definition of insanity on my part?

PS...My wife likes to joke with me that collecting 'pictures of old, dead men on cardboard' is a little strange, too.

[lutherlafy]

Like I have always said whether your card comes back a 3 or 4 or 5 is completely at their discretion. Just like PSA/DNA doesn't say your autograph is not authentic, they just say authenticity questionable. Boy, have I seen them miss many times.
Always remember PSA has your money and is laughing all the way to the bank whether your card gets a 3 or 4 or whatever and your autograph get authenticity questionable.
All I can say is the cards looks nice in a holder.
Of course, the value goes up in a holder most of the time too.

[steve B]

It really shouldn't be that way. Good, VG and VG-ex have always been pretty clearly defined. There are always occasional outlier cards and ones that are in between, but Those 3 grades should be doable even by the blind. (Aside from centering I mean that literally)

Steve B

[Railroad Bill]

If it wasn't for grading I wouldn't be in this hobby. Just with my limited experience, I know that I have bought items on Ebay that weren't even close to the grade suggested. At least with a graded card you know what you are getting.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by Railroad Bill

If it wasn't for grading I wouldn't be in this hobby. Just with my limited experience, I know that I have bought items on Ebay that weren't even close to the grade suggested. At least with a graded card you know what you are getting.

Well Bill, I think we've established that you don't! I will say I disagree with all of the grading companies at times, but it does help you know it's more likely to be real and not a reprint. Of course, they miss that sometimes too.

[John V]

I re-submitted for a re-holder & review. Cosetta fixed me up with the mgr, Laura. I received my PSA email thanking me for my order on 7/15. I figured I was in the customer service fast lane.
After about 2 weeks, i contacted Laura to see how things were going. Laura politely explained that I should expect a 15 to 20 business day turnaround. Okay fine.
It's now been a month and over 20 business days. Nothing.

More later...

[e107collector]

Just another reason why I hate PSA.

For me, I always like to drop my cards off on-site for grading. It may cost a few bucks more, but I get them back in 2 hours or so - Price is well worth it.

John, I hope everything works out for you, maybe your card will come back a 5 this time

Tony

[bobbyw8469]

John, I hope everything works out for you, maybe your card will come back a 5 this time

If it comes back a '5', Walter Hagan and myself are crying foul!! (j/k)

[CharleyBrown]

Wow John... I hope you get it back soon...

And to think I've been getting a bit impatient having now waited 17 business days for my 10 business day order.

Word from customer service was that they are behind due to the # of submission requests at National.

I was hoping that they would do on-site grading at the East Coast National, but was told that they would not be doing that.

[John V]

I can be patient, especially when I have no choice?
What bugs me is when they don't respond to an email and 2 voice messages.
I would just hope the card is not lost.

[CharleyBrown]

John,

My grades finally hit my account. I hope you get a response soon.