Common Hobby Assumptions That are Wrong

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Posted By: hankron

This thread is for each board member to give at least one widely held baseball (or sport) memorabilia fact, assumption or story that is incorrect (ala "The T206 Honus Wagner is the rarest baseball card"). The fact or assumption can be big or small.

Here's my contribution:

Incorrect popular beleif: "The 'Horner Premiums' were all photographed by Carl Horner"

Correction: Though many of the Horner Premiums were photographed by Horner, numerous were photographed by Benjamin Falk and perhaps other photographers.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

All cards are graded equally, regardless of who submits them.

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Posted By: jay behrens

After the great t207 articles, we can now safely say that Lowdermilk, Lewis and Miller are no longer the Big 3 of the t207 set.

Jay

I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff. And I want in.

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Posted By: hankron

Common incorrect terminology: "1909 Ty Cobb Wirephoto," "1919 Joe Jackson Wirephoto," "1920 New York Yankees Wirephoto"

Correction: The patented and trademarked wirephoto is a specific type of photograph made, and ONLY made, via the wirephoto machine (the machine is surprisingly similar to a modern computer scanner we all use to make online images). The wirephoto was invented in 1925 and not widely used until 1934. A 1910s 'Babe Ruth wirephoto' is inherently mislabelled, as the wirephoto hadn't been invented nor the name 'wirephoto' thought up until years later.

This is not only a common mistake made by collectors, but by the big auction houses including Sotheby's, Superior and MastroNet (Check out MastroNet's current catalog)

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Posted By: Judge Dred

The N162 set contains Dunlap. The standard catalog lists Dunlap on two different teams, Detroit and Pittsburgh.

The Dunlap - "Detroit" card does not exist (or at least nobody can confirm seeing one). The standard catalog lists the "Detroit" card as the least expensive of the two Dunlap cards. Many people who try to sell or auction the N162 Dunlap - "Pittsburgh" card do so by incorrectly describing it as the tougher of the N162 Dunlap cards. Unfortunately they are only following what is stated in the standard catalog. Nice book, but there are a few things that need to be "cleaned up"/corrected.

Please feel free to contact me if you want to sell me an N162 Dunlap - "Detroit" card. I'd be happy to pay the standard catalog price listed.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

If you put a whole t206 set together in one pile it doesnt transform into 'the Monster' and create havoc in big cities like NY and Tokyo.Sadly i learned this the hard expensive way

Also while on the subjects of t206s according to alot of people the Kleinow boston card isnt tough and more people think the NY version is actually tougher

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Posted By: Jeff S

A Certificate of Authenticity is exactly that -- a certificate that attests to the authenticity of the signature at the bottom of the certificate of authenticity.

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Posted By: jay behrens

LOL, yeah, I've always told people that COAs are worth about as much as the paper they are printed on. Anyone can create a COA that's jsut as worthless as the sig they are trying to pass off.

Jay

I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff. And I want in.

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Posted By: jack goodman

How about "my mother threw my cards away." The real story is that we discovered the opposite sex, didn't care about the cards anymore and lost track of them. Mom was just cleaning up like she always did.

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Posted By: Scott

If a dealer sees Julie coming, they change their price-tags to reflect a temporary doubling of market value.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

(MM says we don't KNOW who took many Colgans photos.)

I guess i was in a terrible hurry--of course I understand Scott's post. Scott certainly doesn't double price tags when he sees me coming. Nor does Mark Macrae. Some people, though...

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Posted By: Scott

But never "Assume", unless you are assuming that I'm one of the good guys (which is true). I really do think you should create a web-site - I would be a frequent visitor and participate in any wild internet-based vintage activities you dreamed up.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

that the E92 Nadja St. Louis cards are scarcer than the regulars (you see around 5-7 St. Louis Nadjas for every one "other" team card). Also, that the Nadja's are scarcer than ALL the other E92 issues!

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Posted By: leon

Chase is in the HOF

Irv Young is Cy Young in the e97 series....

USPS is good (had to throw that in)...and actually they are except for my waits in lines and a few weird ways

T213-3 overprints are rare (at least I thought so)

casual observation- something deemed rare is rarely rare


**I am sure I will think of more and enlighten ya'll then.

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Posted By: Misunderestimated

-->> That Hal Chase is in the Hall of Fame (he is probably the last player that would ever be chosen);

--->> That all Delahanty cards are cards of Ed Delahanty even ones issued after his death;

--->> That the "multipliers" for certain backs of T206s and T205s are always applicable -- most people don't care and even the people that do are only really willing to pay a meaningful premium for the very scarce backs (Drums, Boradleafs etc.) not the less common backs (eg Sovereign); and

---->> That "population reports" are perfectly accurate as to scarcity.

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Posted By: Mike

That 1914 Cracker Jacks were only found in the boxes of Cracker Jack.

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Posted By: Ben

That every card on collector websites are always available for sale, even if there is no price listed, and all you have to do is email them saying something like "how much for the n162 kelly" and POOF! The card is sold, packaged, mailed, and on your front doorstep that week.

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Posted By: Robert A

All cards with blank backs must be proofs...and

All grilled cheese sandwiches have the virgin mary on them.

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Posted By: Sean Coe

Babe Ruth is a RARE signature. The number of authentic Ruth sigs will never equal the demand but that's not the same thing. King Kelly-now that's RARE!

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Posted By: DD

#1 cards in some sets are rarer in high grade because of the majority of them being damaged by rubber bands.

I still believe this is urban myth. I have seen few if any cards ever advertised with rubber band damage.

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Posted By: hankron

That there's a knowable answer to every question:

Is this a proof?
What's the name of this amatuer player or team in the photo?
Was this CDV used commercially, thus making it a trading card?

For some perfectly legitimate questions there will never be answers.

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Posted By: tbob

That if you have just purchased several cards from and paid a lot of money to a seller, you need not worry about getting outbid by them on some other item you really want on ebay when they see that it is you, ye olde loyal customer, bidding.

That the only vintage card collectors South of the mason Dixon line live in Texas, Lousiana (New Orleans), Virginia or Florida.

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Posted By: John Spencer

That Joe Jackson's rookie card is the T210 Old Mill Southern League when in fact it is the E90-1 American Caramel. As the story goes, Connie Mack was not very impressed with Joe and so after a short stay with the A's, he sent him down to the minors and as they say the rest is history.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

A misconception which I had, before my disillusionment, was that the terms used for card gradig had any relevance to the actual condition of the card.

For example: a card in Very Good condition is really Pretty Worn. And although a card may be just extracted from a new pack, it may not be Mint if it is offcenter, has print spots or contains other manufacturing irregularities.

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Posted By: Gary B.

That if you ask a quesion about a current vintage card auction on ebay to this board, you'll suddenly have more competition since more people's attention will be called to that auction.

Oh wait a minute, this one is true.

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Posted By: hankron

Personal sentimental value translates to financial value (or, that everything that is good and worthwhile is translatable into cold hard cash).

She was your favorite auntie, not the potential buyer's. The buyers have favoritie aunties of their own.

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Posted By: Glen V

That if you get the expensive card from your want list, you can stop buying cards for a while. (The once was a time when my wife believed this - now she just laughs and says "yeah right".)

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Posted By: tbob

That the Minnesota Vikings will win a Super Bowl in this millenium

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Posted By: Julie

If you just MENTION a card you have, or send someone a scan (with the accompanying words "this isn't for sale; I just thought you'd like to see it")--all you want is a price, and it belongs to the other guy/.

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Posted By: Julie

that the preservation of these 1914 Cracker Jacks, probably in a compnay envelope, certainly not removed from boxes of caramel corn--is an exception, rather than the rule. In fact, it may have only happened once (or twice). So, can you really say that "All 1914 Cracker Jacks are NOT found in boxes of Cracker Jack"?"

Or have I missed something, like a more general distribution of 1914s?

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Posted By: Pcelli60

That ALL people that buy and sell cards of any era truly love the game of baseball..

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Fallacy:
19th century records don't count because the pitching distance was 50', sometimes walks counted as hits, the batter could call for a low or high pitch, and other quaint rules were in force.

Truth:
Baseball rules are frequently changed. As recently as the early 50s a sacrifice fly which scored a runner counted as a time at bat. Similarly, the designated hitter rule has a significant current impact on ERAs.

Kilroy struck out over 500 batters in the 1800s because he pitched a lot of innings (he averaged less than 1K/in.). True the pitching distance was 50', but he couldn't throw overhand and the strike zone was half of what exists now because "high or low pitch" was dictated by the batter.

The following year, Tip O'Neill finished up his season winning the triple crown as well as leading in doubles and triples (and stealing 30 bases). This was the first year in which the batter's preference for a high or low pitch did not have to be accomodated by the pitcher.

Although performance may not be directly comparible over all eras, complete dismissal of any period of baseball history is a choice which I feel limits a person's enjoyment. But understanding everything which has happened is no small task.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Notion:
Baseball prior to Ruth was all bunting, pitchers burning themselves out, base stealing, etc. which does not relate to modern baseball.

Truth:
Yeah, you are right. Wanna see my GoldenRetro, 1 of 1, refractomatic insert of a genuine game chewed?

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Posted By: tbob

Grading companies pay absolutely no attention to who the person or company is submitting cards for grading.

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Posted By: hankron

Fallacy: The worth of a trading card or piece of memorabilia is based on how much it sells for or how much it 'books.' That items that sell for more are inherently better than the items that sell for much less.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Trophy Bob:

I already beat you to that one!

Look back up at the second post in this thread!

But I guess it was a good enough "rumor" to repeat!

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Posted By: tbob

D'oh!
Sorry about that. A mind is a terrible thing to waste

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Posted By: dennis

That all slabbed cards graded 9 & 10 have not been trimmed. That roger maris is in the hall of fame. That shill bidding only happens on ebay auctions.

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Posted By: Anonymous

..that dealers will always sell cards/inventory at a huge discount in the final hours of a show.

..presumably because they will need the gas $$ to get home...

of course with the price of gas these days....

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Posted By: jay behrens

the rarity of a card is not related to how often you see the card offered in for sale or in auctions.

Jay

Recently there was a fistfight between fans and players at a professional basketball game. Not to be outdone, the National Hockey League has announced that when they resume their season, not only will several fans be beaten every period, but one lucky fan each game will be run over by the Zamboni.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I found a number of good deals at the end of shows, but the best deals were in show cases and display tiems that dealers did not want to have to ship back to where ever. I used to pick up new showcases at the Labor Day show in SF every year this way.

Jay

The difference be genius and insanity is acceptance.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Do NOT increase hits as they decrease. The opposite is true. It is physics: A ball thrown at the same speed travels 50 feet in about 16.67% less time time than it travels 60 feet. Hitting is about timing the ball and deciding what to do with it. The shorter the distance from release to plate, the less reaction time the hitter has. The less reaction time, the less chance the hitter has.

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Posted By: Julie

To give the hitter a better chance...50' to 60'6". More time.