Fatal Flaw - What's the one thing that will keep you from buying a card?

[rholmes]

First off, maybe an intro is in order. My name is Ray...I was on the old board for a number of years, mostly as a lurker and b/s/t trawler, which will probably be the larger part of my role here on the new board as well...but anyway, after some time away, I'm back actively collecting.

As I've looked around for my first new pickups in a couple of years, I'm having the conscious realization that there is one thing that will almost always keep me from buying a card: I don't like the player name to be missing or cut off in any way, not even a little bit, whether it be by chipping or off-centering (top to bottom). I am an unabashed low grade guy...I actually prefer the aesthetics of your average poor/fair card...but as I said to someone recently, I've got to see the name. The face can be creased (not ideal, but I'll take it if the price is right), corners can be missing, hole punches, whatever. But I have to be able to clearly read the name.

So, what is it for you? What's the fatal flaw? An aspect of condition? Unable to grade? Price (I guess this really counts for all of us to some degree, and is hugely dependent on the rarity of the card)? Or maybe you just don't like the seller? I realize more often than not you buy cards based on a weighted mix of factors...but anyone else have that one thing that holds you back every time?

[tbob]

Welcome back Ray. To me it is aesthetics. If a card is a tough one to find but is a nice looking card, even with a slight trim on a border, it doesn't bother me. I draw the line at punch holes, writing on the front, pieces missing and non eye appeal cards, though, even if they have a numerical grade.

[ghostmarcelle]

The fatal flaw to me is poor registration or anything else that obscures the image. I love a nice clean well-focused image and can overlook flaws in the periphery or on the back.

[JasonL]

you make a good point about cut-off names, and it's one that may cause me to reconsider as the truly one fatal flaw...but up until you mentioned it on this post, it was registration.

I cannot stand to look at a card that has terrible registration. I simply can't look at it. and then, for me, what's the point?

[glchen]

I try to avoid miscut cards whenever possible. Somewhat OC is fine, but if it's OC where there is practically no border, I usually avoid. I also try to avoid altered or trimmed cards whenever possible. If the card is Authentic b/c of poor condition, however, I'm still willing to consider it especially if it's a very expensive card to get in numerical grade.

[Robextend]

Unless the card is super rare, paper loss on the front middle of the card will prevent me from buying it.

[rholmes]

And now that you mention it, poor registration is probably a close second for me. Although there is something interesting about a card whose registration is so off it makes you feel slightly seasick .

Originally Posted by JasonL

you make a good point about cut-off names, and it's one that may cause me to reconsider as the truly one fatal flaw...but up until you mentioned it on this post, it was registration.

I cannot stand to look at a card that has terrible registration. I simply can't look at it. and then, for me, what's the point?

[Matt]

Any issue that causes the face of the player to be obscured.

[Section103]

Easily, the one thing that prevents me from buying most cards is $$$$.

I stay away from altered cards. They can look just fine, but they feel like they have bad mojo to me (thats just me and Id never question anyone elses decision). Outside of that, a card where complete sections are missing hold no interest to me.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ghostmarcelle

The fatal flaw to me is poor registration or anything else that obscures the image. I love a nice clean well-focused image and can overlook flaws in the periphery or on the back.

I agree with this, and the grading companies don't even take focus/registration into consideration.

Besides poor focus, anything with a crease rules the card out for me. I can deal with corner rounding, but just knowing that card was once bent to the point of creasing drives me nuts!

[tbob]

The trimming issue can be a touchy one. I have seen cards which appear trimmed in PSA and SGC holders with numerical grades and likewise cards which I believe are "short" because of factory cuts in "authentic" holders, deemed as trimmed. I honestly believe that if you have a problem with altered cards (trimming), and some do, that you shouldn't take the word of the grading companies as gospel on this issue but examine the card and buy the card based on your own feelings and observation. That said, there are also cards which are trimmed but which are so aesthetically nice that they are, to me, desirable, especially hard to find and scarce cards. I am in the minority that feels that in the future these "AUTH" cards will be worth more than the SGCs 10 and PSA 1s. It may be apples and oranges but look at the prices of restored vintage comic books and see the prices they are bringing.
Just my 2 cents.
tbob

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I agree with this, and the grading companies don't even take focus/registration into consideration.

Besides poor focus, anything with a crease rules the card out for me. I can deal with corner rounding, but just knowing that card was once bent to the point of creasing drives me nuts!

I agree 100%. Out of focus is bad but creases make me crazy!

[Matt]

Originally Posted by tbob

The trimming issue can be a touchy one. I have seen cards which appear trimmed in PSA and SGC holders with numerical grades and likewise cards which I believe are "short" because of factory cuts in "authentic" holders, deemed as trimmed. I honestly believe that if you have a problem with altered cards (trimming), and some do, that you shouldn't take the word of the grading companies as gospel on this issue but examine the card and buy the card based on your own feelings and observation. That said, there are also cards which are trimmed but which are so aesthetically nice that they are, to me, desirable, especially hard to find and scarce cards. I am in the minority that feels that in the future these "AUTH" cards will be worth more than the SGCs 10 and PSA 1s. It may be apples and oranges but look at the prices of restored vintage comic books and see the prices they are bringing.
Just my 2 cents.
tbob

Agree 100%. Well said.

[brianp-beme]

I am with Matt on the facial flaws. I am a low grade collector, and accept just about everything, but definitely like to see the player's face unobscured (I guess I am a face man). A specific card that comes to mind (and I have seen it make the Ebay/net54 circuit for years) that I would love to own, except for the fact that the paper damage on front just happens to make the player headless, is a D304 Cy Young encapsulated by one of the major grading companies. Man, I would be reluctant to spend more than $20.00 on the thing, and even if I were to end up with it, his noggin-less body would always get me upset.

Brian

[rholmes]

A perfect illustration to my funky-name aversion is this e98 Matty I was recently able to Best Offer down enough on ebay to my liking. It fits pretty well with the overall condition aesthetics of my collection. It's slabbed PSA AUT...has the tape and seems to be a bit short on top (whatever happened there happened a long time ago), but the front and back actually look pretty nice and I'm thrilled to have it. In my mind this is the greatest pre-war card ever issued and I couldn't afford it any other way. BUT, if the name was chipped at all or obscured in some other manner I would have hemmed and hawed and probably not bought it.



Brian - a good tangent to this thread would be cards that you can't stand to look at, now that you have them in your collection...

[FUBAR]

my fatal flaw is an empty wallet.....

card wise, it would be eye appeal... i cant pay for something ugly!

[Al C.risafulli]

Holes. Can't stand holes.

I've got cards with writing, tears, creases, bad registration, tape, alterations, wrinkles, poor centering, schmutz on the front, schmutz on the back, scrapbook paper stuck to the back, even a burn mark.

But the only card I have with a hole in it is a 19th Century card of a HOFer thats pretty scarce, and has a tiny pinhole that's tough to see, even close up - and just the same, the hole makes me crazy.

-Al

[bsuttonosu]

In order...

1. Intentional tampering - I'd rather have something that was rolled up into a ball and run through the washer than a card trimmed intentionally to deceive.

2. Writing - Don't know why, I just can't stand the thought of someone writing on a card. Pen or pencil, doesn't matter, just don't like it.

3. Anything that obsures/removes writing or the player - Whether it's paper loss or a miscut, if it messes with the name or player on the front or any important writing on the back, I can't have it.

[celoknob]

Anything that makes the image on the front unpleasant to look at. Creases are ok if they are not deep and through the head. Writing on the front is often unpleasant.

I'll buy a trimmed card if it is one on my very short list of cards that are not commonly available but I need; otherwise I will not.

For some reason, I typically just don't have a big issue with miscut cards.

[rhettyeakley]

For whatever reason I HATE CLIPPED CORNERS! I don't know if I was born w/an aversion to octagon's or something but I hate i when cards have had their corners clipped...this isn't a major problem for most sets but as a Zeenut collector you find them trimmed like that all the time, apparently octagons were popular in Northern California during 1911-38. Many Zeenut guys don't seem to have a problem w/ it but I basically would rather not own the card then own it w/ an octagonal shape... I never realized I was neurotic until right now!

2nd tier pet-peave is the face mutilation. I hate it when there are major creases through the guys face (obviously any damage to the face itself is a deal-killer, with obvious rarity considerations as I'd still like to own the 1911 Zeenut of Bohen even if someone damaged him)

-Rhett

[Kawika]

Any number of the reasons cited by others in this thread (creased face, poor registration etc) put me off but the number one deal killer for me is bad centering. I'm an OCD kind of guy and an off-centered card absolutely bugs me. If it were still the 1930s and we weren't so caught up in all the murder stories and rhetoric of today's hobby I'd have been the guy trimming his cards just to make 'em look pretty.

Hey, Rhett: This one's for you. A genuine archaeological artifact of ancient California. I am embarrassed to admit that I paid SGC six bucks to slab this sorry mother. At least it is decently centered.

[rhettyeakley]

David, I'm not buying it! No way you can be OCD and also have that Prough card in your collection! That card is beautifully hideous!

[rholmes]

I haven't put a lot of thought into it, maybe once or twice on seeing a clipped corner octagonal card...but does anyone have a rational explanation as to why anyone would have done that? I just don't get it. Seems very anti-scrapbook, or something. Like, ain't no one gonna put THIS card in a scrapbook (takes scissors to corners)...

Although I did just have the thought that maybe it's the opposite. Were these cards clipped out of scrapbooks? I guess that would make sense.

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

For whatever reason I HATE CLIPPED CORNERS! I don't know if I was born w/an aversion to octagon's or something but I hate i when cards have had their corners clipped...this isn't a major problem for most sets but as a Zeenut collector you find them trimmed like that all the time, apparently octagons were popular in Northern California during 1911-38. Many Zeenut guys don't seem to have a problem w/ it but I basically would rather not own the card then own it w/ an octagonal shape... I never realized I was neurotic until right now!

-Rhett

[Kawika]

Ray: Folklore has it that kids would trim corners to make them more aerodynamic for tossing and flipping games. Seems to have been done to Zeenuts more than any other issue for some reason. I just love the fact that some ancient youngster slowly beat this card to hell ninety years ago; that trumps all its flaws. Had it have been however, say, a '22 Zeenut Thorpe I might not be so generous in my affections.

[rholmes]

Thanks, David. I actually like the idea of cutting for aerodynamics, but I'm sure glad the practice wasn't more widespread. Imagine all of us having to pay out big dollar premiums for cards just because they have any corners at all.

[drdduet]

A bad seller.

[E93]

I don't know any longer. Blemishes or missing paper on the front of the card used to rule them out for me, but I just broke my own rule this week with a card that I thought I may never have another chance to get.
jimB

[steve B]

I'm not sure there's any one thing that would be a deal breaker for me.

I have backed way off on poor condition commons of some sets now that I can afford VG or sometimes better. But if the price was right I'd still buy them.

Certain types of sellers are a put off too. Given a choice I'll spend my money with someone I like or respect. But I have and will sometimes buy from sellers I don't like. There were a few flea market guys like that, obnoxious and clueless. But sometimes they underpriced things far enough to be worth dealing with them.

Like the guy that argued up and down that I didn't want the shopping bag full of early 70's football and hockey when I asked the price. he absolutely insisted that I should want some rookie card. I think it was Gooden. Eventually he gave in and said the whole bagful was $2. Nice stuff and a few nearly complete sets.

My stock answer to offers of stuff I didn't want was "I think I have that". One guy came to believe that I was a bigtime collector/dealer. When I mentioned I might setup to sell a few things I didn't want he began offring me boxes of new stuff to stay away. ---Yeah, it was probably "wrong" but I took the freebies when he offered. made up for it by sellling a little kid as many commons as he could grab in both hands for 5 cents when I eventually did setup.


Steve B

[Steve D]

For me, it's any of the following:

1. Poor registration
2. Diamond cut
3. Off-centered more than 60-40
4. Crease through the player's face
5. Writing/marks on the card's obverse

Steve

[Rickyy]

I'm more tolerant when it comes to pre war cards as to my criteria for rejection...when I was filling pieces on my 1970-1979 Topps set... I just hated Diamond cuts...


For pre war stuff:
Huge chunk missing from the card
Excessive writing or erasure mark on the front of the card

Ricky Y

[albrshbr]

For me it's missing pieces...or paper loss on the front. I love picking up trimmed cards that other wise look really nice.

[brickyardkennedy]

Paper loss or other damage, on the face.

[BCauley]

I tend to keep my mind open with the type of card that it is but the two things that always hold me back are:

1) An actual piece of the card is missing. (i.e. torn/ripped off)
2) Centering. I am flexible to an extent depending on the card but that's probably my biggest pet peeve of all.

[e107collector]

I will not buy a card that has:

1. Poor centering

2. Paper loss on the front

3. Parts of the card missing

[sox1903wschamp]

1. Centering on post war needs to be 60/40 or better, more lenient on pre war especially rarity.

2. Anything that obstructs clarity on the face on the image is a real downer.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Kawika

If it were still the 1930s and we weren't so caught up in all the murder stories and rhetoric of today's hobby I'd have been the guy trimming his cards just to make 'em look pretty.

That made me laugh. Good thing I wasn't drinking milk when I was reading it.

Doug

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Holes. Can't stand holes.

I've got cards with writing, tears, creases, bad registration, tape, alterations, wrinkles, poor centering, schmutz on the front, schmutz on the back, scrapbook paper stuck to the back, even a burn mark.

But the only card I have with a hole in it is a 19th Century card of a HOFer thats pretty scarce, and has a tiny pinhole that's tough to see, even close up - and just the same, the hole makes me crazy.

-Al

Wow - my brother from another mother!!!

The one thing I can't stand is a hole...not to be confused with an a-hole, which sometimes makes for a nice card:

[teetwoohsix]

David- I like the way SGC put "without coupon" on that

I do not like:

1) trimmed/altered

2)paper loss (I can handle a little speck, but not much more)

3)writing on front or back

4)heavy creases (a light wrinkle is sometimes ok, if the card otherwise is a beauty)


I collect in the V/G to V/G-E/X range, so I can handle a little O/C or rounded corners.

My wallet sometimes wishes I didn't mind 1 through 4,,,my collection would be so much bigger

Clayton

[ChrisStufflestreet]

Anybody who has seen some of the stuff in my collection knows I have few things that actually prevent me from adding a card that most of you guys wouldn't even bother with. I have a blog that shows some of the "beauties," as does an article in the last issue of "Collector" magazine.

However, a seller who shows himself as resembling the northern end of a southbound horse will make me walk to the next table...every single time.

[rholmes]

This whole bad seller thing is no joke, which is why I put it as an option in my original post. Not naming names, but there was a guy on the old board, a seller primarily, who just rubbed me the wrong way with every move he made. But then he'd put up something pretty good once in a while, sometimes something I really wanted or needed, and I'd have to just grit my teeth and slide on by. I couldn't bring myself to deal with him. My loss probably, in the end...but it really is so much better/cooler/more fun to buy from folks you like. Comes down to what you want your hobby to be about, I guess.

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by ChrisStufflestreet

However, a seller who shows himself as resembling the northern end of a southbound horse will make me walk to the next table...every single time.

Hilarious! Never quite heard it put that way but there are a few of those around.

[Mark]

I don't like holes in baseball cards.

[camlov2]

another vote against pieces will paper loss/creases across the face of the player.

[ethicsprof]

with my ole friend, Al C, i greatly dislike the pinholes.

best,
barry

[Bridwell]

Besides front paper loss, writing on front, or a sizable hole:

I hate looking at a card in a slab that is ridiculously overgraded. I always let someone else buy that card.

Ron R

[Easy506]

I can't stand pin/punch holes. My eyes are always directed right to them which is a total distraction.

[NonSportDaniel]

I can tolerate nearly any defect depending upon a cards rarity, but hate writing as words on a card. I'm okay with drawing like adding a moustache or cigarette, but if it's a name or an autograph I'm out alltogether very quickly. I have no explanation for as to why I feel this way.

[martin neal]

Blank back and front

[cfc1909]

my problem is paper loss-I can deal with rounded corners, creases or a punch hole.

Tinker.jpg

Tinkerb.jpg

[HRBAKER]

1. Writing on front
2. Damage to player's face/image
3. Bad seller