Let's Talk E90-1....toughest Candy card set ?

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well I wish that image of the Jackson card didn't have the overlay on it. Would have been nice to have seen only "card". A few years ago I almost bought one for $100. A guy listed it in a newsletter. I got the mail, opened it while working, and called during lunch. The guy had just sold the card to another caller a few minutes earlier.... RATZ!

I recall the first Mitchell I found, and I was a bit taken aback by it. It is really somewhat ugly, I thought. Harsh colors. But one tough card.

There was a thread on the difficult E90-1 cards a couple of months ago. So I won't repeat that stuff, but to say that the Upp card is way underpriced in the guides, and the Plank card is somewhat underpriced, not so much for difficulty, but for demand. Folks wanting a card of each Hall of Famer have few options on Plank.

Gotta love these dog eared candy cards. Kids got 'em and wore them out, carrying them in their pockets and all; not like the T cards that adults obtained, so there was a bit of care for those, initially.

Frank.

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Posted By: Troy Kirk

Well, E90-1 is my favorite set, so I thought I'd chime in. I have 101 of these, missing most of the big ticket cards and some Hall of Famers. I could probably get to 110 without too much trouble if I wanted to spend some money, but might not ever add another. I got most of them in the 1980s and added a few more in the early days of ebay, but none for several years at least. I have a Shean, probably got it early as I don't remember having any trouble with that one. I always thought the Young Cleveland card didn't picture Cy Young, so I never really pursued that one very hard, any other opinions on that?

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Posted By: Jim Manos

Correct me if I am wrong on the above guotes it sounds like the below are the hardest NOT IN ORDER OF VALUE;

Mitchel Cinncy
Upp
Karger
Plank
Jackson
Speaker
Peaches Graham (hardest??)
Duffy
Clarke Pitt
Sweeny
Walsh

Am I missing any??

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Add these to your list:

Donlin
Joss
Keeler
Lobert
Shean
Stahl
Tenney
Walsh
Young (Clev-pitching)

and I am sure we could come up with a few more.

T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Congrayulations Troy

With 101 cards you qualify as the 10th guy with a near complete set.

I know what you mean by the CYoung pitching pose, but there are other
portrayals in this set that bear little resemblance to the players we
know. These particular cards remind me of the Buchner (N284) set pix.

Big mistake....not getting the Young back then when he was affordable.

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

A few more e90-1's...I currently have 49 out of 120

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Greg

Nice cards....keep collecting you're 1/2 to a 100 card set.

Boy, looking at all these pictures brings back many memories of
this set. However, I have no regrets selling this set, as I made
a really great deal at the time. Which, then enabled me to com-
plete 3 of my sets.....my 1933 Goudey set.....my 1949 Leaf set
and....PARDON THE EXPRESSION....guys....but I have to say my
1952 TOPPS set.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Come on guys.....show off your E90-1 Caramels

So far, I count only 23 diff. cards on display. I am sure you have more
to share with us. And, I am still looking for the last card in this set,
Cy Young (pitching pose-Cleveland) ?

How about the "mysterious" Upp card....let's see what he looks like ?

And, I am surprised this has gone unnnoticed till now.....why wasn't
Walter Johnson pictured in this set ?

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Posted By: Anonymous

I remember someone started a thread a while back raising that very question, but took it a step further. Why isn't he in many of the E-sets at all?

I would think the Big Train deserved a right to be pictured in the E-sets of the time.

Here it is:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1120768313/last-1120791560/lack+of+walter+johnson+caramels

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Posted By: Scott Gross

Along with everything else great about this set ........... COLOR .......... COLOR .......... COLOR ..........





....... and Ted, just for you ........

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Posted By: JimB

It may be because most caramel sets were quite small (not the case with E90-1) and Johnson was young and on a losing team. It is certainly a shame.
JimB

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Scott G

I knew you would answer the call for the additional CYoung card....Thanx.

This card tells us that Am Car started producing this set in 1908. This
2nd Young card in the set was added to the original 100 cards to reflect
his trade to Cleveland in Feb 1909.

Andrew and JimB

A possible reason for no Walter Johnson is that Am Caramel for whatever
reasons chose not to portray Washinghton players. I vaguely recall (and I
am sure one of you guys will probably correct me, if I am wrong) that the
only Washington player in this entire set is Bob Unglaub.

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

There were other Washington players in the set - I know of these for sure but there may be one or two more:

Blankenship
Gray
Groom
Schaefer (pictured with Detroit, team name is Washington)

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Posted By: Scott Gross

Thanks, Bob, for sharing your Upp ..... I know Oakes is famous for having his glove extend beyound the border .....

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Posted By: Brian Lindholme

My offering...a bit on the worn side but a very cool pose of Tinker's unique haircut !

Take care,
Brian L

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Posted By: Brian Lindholme

Guys do you realize that if we all pulled together and posted each of the E90-1 cards in the set...one scan per post that we would still linger behind the silly Barry Bonds thread by 100 posts or more?
Do you think we could do actually post an entire set one scan at a time from as many unique collections as possible?? Sounds like a safe non-steroid activity to me...Here's a Joss that I traded away a few months ago...
Enjoy,
Brian L
familytoad

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Brian L.

I fully agree with you. So far, there are 35 diff cards on display.

We can fill up this Thread with the remaining 85 cards in this set, so
keep showing your cards, guys. We have accounted for 10 near complete
sets; therefore, there is no excuse why you can't do it.

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Posted By: Bill Kasel

I'll throw my hat into the ring. Here's the Oakes. LOVE THAT CARD!



Great idea guys!

Bill

My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

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Posted By: jay behrens

just to make zach happy



it's a Nadja, but the colors are just unreal on my example.

Jay

WOW upsidedown is MOM. Mom upsidedown is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Justin Manning

My collection:

http://ImageEvent.com/jpaol99

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Posted By: ockday

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Posted By: Zach Rice

Jay, i'm jumping with joy !

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

There are 5 cards in this set printed Horizontally....Buster Brown, Charlie
Hall, Addie Joss (pitching), Willie Keeler (throwing) and John Siegle.

This Keeler card depicts him as NY Giant. He ended his career as a Giant in 1910.
Which suggests that this card of him was printed very late in the production run,
and therefore, short-printed. This card's very high price reflects this fact.
The two earlier Keeler cards identify him as a NY Highlander.

The Buster Brown card has him with Boston (NL), which reflects him being
traded to July 1909.

Charlie Hall was involved in a trade from Cinc to Bost(AL) in 1909.

Addie Joss (portrait) in the earlier Series and in this late Series he is
depicted in a pitching pose. I suspect that this card was printed later in
in production process.

I am not sure why Johnny Siegle (sic..Seigle) is in this set, as his very
short playing career ended in 1906.

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Posted By: Troy Kirk

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Paul K

Your E90-1 Wagner is about the nicest one I have seen. Even my set which
was overall Vg/Ex to Ex didn't have either Wagner cards as nice as yours.

This picture of Wagner is the exact one found in the T216 set (Kotton, or
Mino, or Virginia Extra tobacco brands).

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Posted By: Paul Kaufman

Thanks, Ted......you can see more by going to the SGC Set Registry.....I have posted images of all my cards. Regards, Paul

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

Ted,

It's in the E102 set, too:

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Posted By: jay behrens

and e101



Jay

WOW upsidedown is MOM. Mom upsidedown is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Bob Shannon

A few more e90-1's

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Posted By: cmoking

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Posted By: Justin Manning

and the E106

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Posted By: Colt McClelland

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Posted By: cmoking

hey, that e106 has Honus at 2B. is that the only one? any idea why?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

In the T216 set Wagner has 4 cards......

Two as a SS......Batting and Throwing

Two as a 2b......Batting and Throwing

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Peaches Graham....now there's a real "toughie" in this set. And, another
Boston player....what's with this set and the scarcity of cards portraying
Boston (AL or NL) players ?

After looking at all these cards, I think I will start putting together a
2nd set. I found these E90-1 cards in my "junk" box, so here I go again.
I am not going to be fussy this time, as is evident with these 4 cards, so
this set should be more affordable.

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Posted By: Colt McClelland

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Great going Colt.....you're darn right he is a tough card in this set.

So, now we need Charlie Hall to have all 5 Horiz. cards on display.

It's funny, Charlie Hall in HS was one of my best friends. Then another
Charlie Hall was one of my best friends when I was in the Air Force.
OK guys, neither of these guys are the same Charlie Hall that is portrayed
in this set. I am not that old, although some think I date back to the
prehistoric age.

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: Ben

After seeing the scan, I would add Willis to the list of more difficult e90-1's. I just haven't seen too many show up in the years I've paid attention to the set (5 or so). Anyone else agree?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BEN.....I fully agree with you.....the St Louis (NL) team designation
proves this observation.

Willis was certainly one of the tough ones when I was putting my set
together. He was traded from Pitts. to St Louis in Jan 1910.

So, if my theory is correct that American Caramel produced their 1st Series
of cards (the basic 100) in 1908; then, Willis was one of the cards added
on, in the last Series. And, therefore, short-printed.

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Posted By: Anonymous

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 posts <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Maybe a conincidence, but since this thread started, e90-1 listings on ebay have gone from maybe 10-15 cards at any given time, to over 60 right now ....

A player known for bunting abilities .....

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Posted By: Troy Kirk

OK, here is the one thing I always disliked about this set - bright red lipstick on a lot of the players. Poor Hughie Jennings is probably the worst, but even the expensive Shoeless Joe Jackson card didn't escape this indignity.

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Posted By: Brian Lindholme

Is anyone ( Ted, maybe) keeping track of who has been shown and who is still needed?
Here's another...keep 'em coming!
We have a long way to beat Bonds!

Brian L
familytoad

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Brian L

Your Stanage card brings us to one over the 1/2 way mark of 60 cards.
So, let's continue to show them.

Has any 100+ card (vintage) set ever been completely displayed in a
Thread on this Forum ?

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Posted By: Lyle

if 1908 was indeed the year the E90-1 set was first offered ( and I would be very interested in your rationale ) , would that make the Ty Cobb his rookie card ?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Lyle Jobe

1st....where were you....didn't see you at Philly in March ?

You raise a really great question....but far be it from "little ole me" to
declare that the E90-1 Ty Cobb is his real "rookie" card. I recently had to
dodge a lot of flak when I brought up the subject his 1907 Dietsche P/C.

However, I will present some actual facts on this set and I leave it up to
you guys to decide. One fact I am quite confident of is.....that my study
suggests that the American Caramel Co. of Philadelphia started designing
and producing its 1st Series of cards in 1908.

1....The Cy Young card (portrait) in the 1st Series depicts him with Boston.
He was traded to Cleveland in FEB 1909....and, indeed, a later Series card
of CY depicts him with Cleveland (pitching pose).

Now, compare this with the 3 cards of CY in the T206 set where all 3 have him
with Cleveland. Does this tells us that the 1st Series cards of the E90-1 set
preceded the T206 issue ? Did this series of E90-1 cards get into the market
sometime in 1908, or perhaps very early in 1909 ?

2....And, was the Ty Cobb card in this 1st Series of E90-1 cards ? Well, con-
sider this, most of his career he played CF. The E90-1 card designates his
fielding position as RF. He played in RF from 1907-09 and was switched to CF
when the Left-Handed throwing Sam Crawford took over the RF spot for Detroit.

3....Why does Shoeless Joe Jackson appear in this set ? He was only in 5 games
in 1908 and 1909 (his rookie years). Could it be because he started with the
Phila A's and these cards were produced in Philly ? He never made it into the
T206 set, which has always been a mystery to me.

4....Of course the big mystery is why wasn't Walter Johnson in the E90-1 set ?
His rookie year is 1907, and by then it is possible the printing plate impressions
of first Series cards were already at the printing plant ?

But, in 1910 he had won 25 games and was an established star, so why didn't
Am. Caramel include him in their latter series of cards (which reflect Trades
and Managerial changes in 1910).

OK....enough for now; however, there are even more arguments in favor of a
possible 1908 issue (instead of 1909 as is noted in the Price Guides).

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Posted By: Lyle

I was planning on going to the March Fort Washington but elected to spend quality time with my wife and sons ( probably a good choice).
Additional info indicating an earlier release date for the E90-1 set according to the Lew Lipset Encyclopedia would be both John Butler and Johnny Siegle being out of the Majors by 1907 yet having E90-1 cards .I love a card set with some controversy...I think it adds some mystery .
I hope my comments didn't distract from the parade of beautiful cards displayed here . Here is my lone contribution :

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

LYLE....your Joe Jax is one of the nicer ones that I have seen.

You and me, both, when it comes to mysterious BB card sets. My favorite
pastime, all these years collecting sportscards, is trying to resolve these
mysteries.

And, thanks for the info; I guess if my thinking is similar to Lew Lipset's
thoughts on this set.....I am really in good company.

In an earlier post on this Thread, I did question why Siegle is in this set.
On the other hand, players like Siegle and Butler being in this set further
the discussion that this set was possibly issued in 1908.

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

I think we are at a point where we realize there are several levels of scarcity
within the group of "tough" cards. This implies more than just two Series of
E90-1 cards, which I have been eluding to. The consensus of opinion in this
Thread definitely places this Hugh Duffy card in the highest level of scarcity.
This is consistent with our research, as his card was a very late entry into
this set......his card reflects him as Manager of Chicago (AL) which began at
the start of the 1910 season,

I am now suggesting that the E90-1 set breaks down to 3 series of 120 cards.

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Posted By: scott fandango

its been 2 years since this thread was active....have any of the questions been answered?

was the E90-1 first series printed in 1908?

what happened to all the nice scans of these cards?