Vintage Racing?

[Jobu]

This is not mine, but I have always thought that this was about as cool of a crossover vintage baseball/vintage racing item as you can get (and maybe the only one!):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-1920s-C...MAAOSwGYVW~JC8

I collect central Washington racing photos, memorabilia, and programs (moslty from the CWJRA 1946-1967). Here's an image of the "Ole Death Car" driven by Robert Zylstra 1936 Central Washington Fairgrounds (Yakima, WA).

[brian1961]

While I do not collect the trading cards produced of Indianapolis 500 cars and drivers, nor the English tobacco card inserts of racing greats (Tazio Nuvolari and John Cobb come to mind), I sure respect you guys for doing so. Racers and the bigger stars, the cars, have always had a huge pull on the sporting world.

Before I got interested in baseball cards, I became enraptured with the beauty of collecting Dinky Toys, 1/43rd scale model cars of the real thing, in the late 1950s. They began as O scale train accessories, but the public and especially children loved them so much just for themselves. A whole new collecting niche spawned. In time, frustrated collectors yearned for, demanded, and got, 1/43rd scale metal and resin model cars of the actual Indy cars, racing sports cars, Grand Prix racers, and Stock Cars that fluttered their heart, and moved them with the same passion as any baseball card ever could!

Here's hoping you chaps get many more responses from other interested collectors, as well as those who don't care for them, but happen to have some that belonged to their father or grandfather that they'd be willing to part with for the right price.

Regards, Brian Powell

[RTK]

I've been a race fan most of my life, primarily Indy (CART & Champcar) and F1. ...saw my first race in 1963 when I was very young at the Miwaukee Mile. Since the split in '95 I haven't followed Indy much but still maintain an extensive collection of Indy and F1 diecast. The old Carousel diecast roadsters were great. I also have a number of signed photos from the 50's through 90's, race programs and vintage Indy 500 ticket stubs. Some of my finished basement that isn't baseball, is racing. I don't have any racing cards though. Open wheel racing has a great history, much like baseball, unfortunately the sport seems to be on the down slope.

[Bored5000]

Here is a thread that discusses the 1972 STP NASCAR set and the great rarity that is "Lorenzen with car" from that set. I have seen the comparison made several times that the 1972 STP set is the T206 of racing cards in terms of impact.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/52660...+wish+for+%3B)

Another article that discusses the STP set and the extreme rarity that is "Lorenzen with car." PSA has currently graded one example of that card. The link even includes a picture to prove that the card actually exists. I know that Lorenzen with car is the holy grail from that set, but in at least three years of scouring eBay, I have never seen a Richard Petty card or a Bobby Allison card or a Dick Brooks card or a Charlie Glotzbach card from that set for sale, either.

https://sportscardinfo.wordpress.com...week-1972-stp/

Thread in which one of the top racing card collectors is offering to pay just for a scan of the "Lorenzen with car" card.

https://forums.collectors.com/messag...&enterthread=y

[Bored5000]

Here is a link to a 2010 Huggins and Scott auction for a complete set of 1962 Marhoefer Meats Indy cards. (Marhoefer was a Muncie, Ind., company that produced Indy cards of the current drivers for four years in the early 1960s). The cards are frequently stained from being packaged alongside hot dogs. I have read in the past that many of the cards were thrown out by mothers who disapproved of the smell of the cards due to juice from the wieners soaking the cards. I so wish i would have seen this auction when it was live. The set sold for under $200 with the BP. I have read of Foyt Marhoefer cards alone selling for more than that.

http://sep10.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=25091

The set has been up for sale on eBay on and off for a long time as a BIN at $1,295.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-Marhoef...p2047675.l2557

Here is a link to an auction of a complete set of T36 cards that sold for a little over $700 at Huggins and Scott in 2014. Considering how scarce both the Marhoefer's cards and the T36s are, it is amazing that both sets have had a complete set at auction within the past six years.

http://feb14.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=65307

[Bored5000]

Here is a fascinating thread in which the top 20 most desirable NASCAR cards are ranked. The list is exclusively NASCAR, so nothing predates the '72 STP set, but it is a fascinating list. The top 10:

1. 1986 SportsStar Photo-Graphics Dale Earnhardt
2. 1992 Traxs Autograph Petty/Earnhardt
3. 1983 UNO Dale Earnhardt
4. 1989 Maxx Dale Earnhardt
5. 1972 STP Richard Petty
6. 1988 Maxx Dale Earnhardt
7. 1972 STP Bobby Allison
8. 1972 STP Fred Lorenzen (I assume this is the "with car" example. The explanation that accompanies the card's description says that the card is on a slow move toward No. 1 on the list as collectors learn more about the 1972 STP set in general and the extreme rarity of "Lorenzen with car").
9. 1988 Maxx (Charlotte & Myrtle Beach) Cover Card
10. 1991 Traks Jeff Gordon

https://forums.collectors.com/messag...hreadid=851215

I am not a fan at all of having the dual autograph card of Earnhardt and Petty listed so high. I have also seen other lists that have the '72 STP Petty card ranked at No. 2 behind the '86 SportsStar Photographic card of Earnhardt.

Earnhardt's' rookie card actually comes from the 1983 UNO set. Not much is known about that set, but it is a 30-card set with driver images on one side and a standard UNO playing card on the other side. I am not really a huge fan of the set, since they do seem kind of cheesy. But that is the generally-accepted Earnhardt rookie card (he does have some earlier postcards).

The 1986 SportsStar Photo-Graphic set is also obscure, but the Earnhardt card from that set usually sells for more than the UNO card (the SportsStar card is also a lot more scarce than the UNO card). I was the underbidder on an Earnhardt SportsStar card that sold for $327 a few weeks ago, and I kick myself for not sniping higher.

In 1988, MAXX entered the racing card game with sets produced in huge quantities. MAXX sets from either of those years are very, very common, but the Earnhardt card is still very desirable because they are his first "mainstream" card releases. The 1988 Earnhardt MAXX card is also famous for never being officially released until 1994. MAXX had the card all ready for release, but was unable to come to a licensing agreement with Earnhardt. As a result, the card was dropped from release at the last minute.

Some copies of the '88 Earnhardt MAXX card did slip out, but six years later, 999 numbered copies of the card were officially released. The MAXX sets were huge (both in quantity and impact), but I am not a huge fan of them from a collecting standpoint because they are so common and easy to find. The Earnhardt MAXX cards are a bit like the '52T Mantle in that there are tons of them around, but the MAXX Earnhardt cards are iconic and what many people first think of when they think of an Earnhardt card.

[Beansballcardblog]

That is pretty cool! Since there isn't a lot of vintage racing out there, I've started taking an interest in post cards.

Originally Posted by Jobu

This is not mine, but I have always thought that this was about as cool of a crossover vintage baseball/vintage racing item as you can get (and maybe the only one!):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-1920s-C...MAAOSwGYVW~JC8

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001

That is pretty cool! Since there isn't a lot of vintage racing out there, I've started taking an interest in post cards.

If you keep an eye out on eBay, you can pick up some old postcards of some huge names in NASCAR for next to nothing. I don't have the listings saved in my eBay watch list anymore, but a few months ago, there were postcard listings from the 1960s of Fireball Roberts, Joe Weatherly, Ned Jarrett, Lee and Richard Petty, etc. that sold for under $50 each at auction. Old postcards from the 1960s of NASCAR stars do show up from time to time on eBay.

There was also a 1980 Dale Earnhardt postcard of him with the Rod Osterlund car that sold for just over $100 a couple months ago on eBay. That pre-dates his SportsStar Photo-Graphics and UNO cards by several years, but sells for much less than his SSPG card or even a high-grade MAXX card of Earnhardt.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DALE-EARNHAR...IAAOSwKtlWpXJ-

[Bored5000]

I don't know if anyone is actually reading this thread anymore, but one of the cards near the top of my want list arrived today -- a 1972 Richard Petty card from the STP set. Like I wrote earlier, it took several years of searching for me to find a Petty card from the '72 STP set. The seller was amazing, perhaps the best seller I have ever dealt with on eBay. The seller was an older lady and she sent me a two-page letter discussing her collection and detailing that she acquired the card as a handout from an STP rep while at the 1972 Daytona 500 (which corresponds with everything I have ever read about how the set was distributed).

She wrote that it took her 25 years to complete the set (11 cards) because she could not find the near-mythical Lorenzen with car card. Over the years, she traded/bought/sold various cards from the STP set. The Lorenzen with car card she finally located at a racing memorabilia show has a thumbtack hole, but it was the only one she has ever seen. She wanted to put together a second full set but is stuck at 10 cards due to never being able to find a second Lorenzen with car card.

As I mentioned earlier, the '72 STP Petty card is always ranked somewhere in the top five among the most desirable of all NASCAR cards or racing cards in general.

Scans of the Petty card that just arrived in my mailbox on Friday:

[RCMcKenzie]

Eddie, nice acquisition and thanks for the info on that set. When I was a kid, I watched a lot of NASCAR and was a huge David Pearson fan. I'll be a bidder on the auto drivers set in REA, if i can't win the Just So Zimmer.
Again, I think there are are a few auto racing collectors on here and maybe we can take over a sub-category like the soccer one. RMY photos auctions always has some cool racing stuff up for bid....Rob

[Bored5000]

Thanks for the kind words, Rob. I don't quite understand why the STP set does not include David Pearson, perhaps because he was not running the full series anymore by that point. But by '72, he had already been a three-time series champion. Seems like he would have been an obvious choice for the set.

I did see that REA has a full set of T36s up for auction. I have a few other bids in at REA that will almost certainly get blown out of the water. I do wish the T36 set was offered as a stand-alone item rather than in conjunction with the T37 set. I hope that someone on here that will appreciate the set does win the T36s at REA as opposed to someone looking to break it up for resale.

[Beansballcardblog]

Thanks for sharing that backstory on the card as well. It reminds me a bit of an "American Pickers" type thing where there is a great story attached to an item. I believe that's a big part of my appeal to the vintage - the actual history. I had almost left the hobby (modern cards aren't fun for me anymore), but instead have just moved onto collecting vintage, however slow it may be.

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I don't know if anyone is actually reading this thread anymore, but one of the cards near the top of my want list arrived today -- a 1972 Richard Petty card from the STP set. Like I wrote earlier, it took several years of searching for me to find a Petty card from the '72 STP set. The seller was amazing, perhaps the best seller I have ever dealt with on eBay. The seller was an older lady and she sent me a two-page letter discussing her collection and detailing that she acquired the card as a handout from an STP rep while at the 1972 Daytona 500 (which corresponds with everything I have ever read about how the set was distributed).

She wrote that it took her 25 years to complete the set (11 cards) because she could not find the near-mythical Lorenzen with car card. Over the years, she traded/bought/sold various cards from the STP set. The Lorenzen with car card she finally located at a racing memorabilia show has a thumbtack hole, but it was the only one she has ever seen. She wanted to put together a second full set but is stuck at 10 cards due to never being able to find a second Lorenzen with car card.

As I mentioned earlier, the '72 STP Petty card is always ranked somewhere in the top five among the most desirable of all NASCAR cards or racing cards in general.

Scans of the Petty card that just arrived in my mailbox on Friday:

[pawpawdiv9]

Cool stuff. I was a Nascar collector until around early 2000's, just a few yrs after Earnhardt Sr.s death...I just couldt see myself collect anymore. Just this yr, I slowly began listing some things in my collection, such as signed programs, cards/autos, and some diecast. Just listed a few things this past few days...sometimes you cant believe what you h-o-a-r-d. Love reading theres other collectors other than baseball. I always been intrigued at the oddball stuff in the back of the AH books.

[Bored5000]

Thanks for the kind words, guys. I can now provide some additional information about the '72 STP set. The woman who I bought the Richard Petty card from included her phone number in the letter she sent me and invited me to call her to find out more information from her. She is 75 years old and does not do e-mail. Her daughter was the one that listed the card on eBay for her because the seller does not do anything with computers.

I felt really weird calling this older lady who I had never met before, but at the same time, I did not want to appear rude by not calling her when she wrote in her letter that she loves discussing the STP set and her collection.

I feel like I learned some stuff from her that even other collectors of the set probably do not know. Like I wrote earlier, she acquired the cards at Daytona in 1972. The cards were on a table and fans could take what they wanted. Seemingly, few people were even interested in picking up the free cards that were available. Every card was available except for the Lorenzen with car card. She did not even learn about that card until several years after the fact and believes that card was released at a later date from the other cards.

In the 1980s, she ran a couple ads in various racing publications looking to buy/trade cards from the '72 STP set. Most of the people who contacted her were looking to buy cards they were missing, however, not sell any. At one time, she had 45 total STP cards. She bought/sold/traded cards over the years and has slowly sold all her cards other than her one full set that she is keeping. She agrees that the Elmo Langley, Buddy Baker and Dave Marcis cards are more common than the rest of the set. She has never met or talked with another person who has the Lorenzen with car card. She had four of the Lorenzen portrait cards at one time. About five years ago, she had her daughter list a Lorenzen portrait card, a Bobby Allison card and a Richard Petty card for sale individually on eBay. They all sold within 30 minutes of being posted on eBay.

The seller was a huge David Pearson fan in the 1960s and '70s and also wondered why he was not included in the set. In addition, she always wondered why Fred Lorenzen (even though he was sponsored by STP at the time) has two cards in the set.

She said that she had given up on ever finding a Lorenzen with car card. She attended numerous racing trade shows/card shows at Daytona and Charlotte, but no one ever had that card. Even most NASCAR card vendors did not know that card existed. She could not believe her eyes when she finally found the Lorenzen with car card at a racing show at Stafford Motor Speedway in her home state of Connecticut. She also said she heard over the years that the cards were available at Talladega in 1972, but did not know if that was true or not.

About 25 years ago, she called STP and inquired if they had any cards from the '72 set for sale or could give her a lead on a Lorenzen with car card. She talked with a couple different people at STP, and they did not have any idea what she was even talking about. She finally talked with an employee at STP that was at least familiar with the cards, but said they were a free promotional item that the company never tracked or kept additional cards in stock once they were gone.

When the seller was younger, she attended several of the card shows at White Plains., N.Y. She has some vintage baseball cards (the conversation went back to the STP cards and I forgot to ask her about her baseball cards), but racing was her first love. She stopped collecting baseball because the cards became too expensive.

For all the scammers and rip-off artists that populate eBay, it is amazing to encounter someone like that selling cards on eBay. The seller reminded me of my grandmother from when I was young. She had a very Jefferson Burdick-like philosophy that the thrill was in collecting and the hunt. But I suppose racing cards aren't very popular with scammers because even the iconic. impossible to find cards are only worth a few hundred dollars each,

[Bored5000]

Sorry, double post. Not that this is really a big deal, but the blue mark that is shown the back scan of the Petty card I posted earlier was a spot on the protective case, not on the card itself.