What Should A Dealer Do?

[Exhibitman]

Let's be clear: no one condones capitalizing on mistakes. In the example with the Ryan rookie, obviously, the wife misread the $500 label. That's the equivalent of a clerk giving you change for a $100 instead of a $10.

Making an offer on a card or paying a buyer's ask price across a table at a collectibles show is part of the business. I (and all of you who attend shows or antique fairs or flea markets) spend days scouring through stuff looking for value. Everyone at a show knows that buyers want to get something great for cheap and sellers want to sell things as highly as they can. If everything was priced to 'market' and no one knew anything more than anyone else, many (most?) collectible sales would not happen. Wanting something shiny and new only gets you so far; there has to be a perception of value or you end up with boxes of shiny crap no one wants [sound familiar, former 1990s pack busters?].

A buyer who just takes the first dealer offer through the door at a collectibles show is lazy, dumb and blind to what's around him. I have zero pity for that guy.

We also don't know the circumstances of the multi strike back deal. Perhaps there was only one dealer who was interested in a beater McGraw at the seller's price. Until relatively recently FUBARed T206s were considered junk box bait; that's where I got most of mine. Some people still think of them that way.

One other thing to consider: in sitting at selling tables at shows over the last 30+ years [geez, I feel old sometimes] I cannot tell you how many times I am approached by someone with cards for sale who lets me go through them, takes my offer, and then walks away to try and find someone to top it. For every schmuck who hands over a rare card for fifty bucks, I bet there are twenty who waste hours of dealers' time shopping a deal around a show floor.

[Kevin.Shenker]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

For those posting that they think that the dealer has an obligation to inform...I call BS. If you are "stupid" enough to take a card that you know nothing about to a card show and sell it to the first dealer you approach, you deserve to be low balled.

Sorry to be so "rude" about this, but in today's age of information (on your phone, computer, tv, etc.) there is no excuse other than laziness for not being informed.

Jeff

If you wear a skirt into an alley way you deserve to be raped? Pretty much the same thing you just said. They were asking for it for sure.

[Kevin.Shenker]

Originally Posted by rocarroll

Probably best to have a nice will in place outlying everything you have and what the value of it is and what to do with it. If you don't, a shady card dealer is the least of your worries. Getting it probated through court will cost you a whole hell of a lot more than mom losing a $100 on a graded card. If you don't take care of your affairs properly that's on you.

I keep a spreadsheet with every price I paid for the card, where I bought it and when, along with the auction catalogue and the item number written in the front cover of it. Additionally a long list of contacts to consult before making any moves, in case the inevitable happens.

I also have talked to said people who will be in the recipients of said assets so they are aware of what they will be receiving.

Lets hope that doesn't earn me a bullet.

[polakoff]

As a dealer I've run across scenarios like this, both in my own dealings and being within earshot of other dealers.

A lot of dealers are sharks. They would feign ignorance, buy it for pennies, and crow to others about the deal they got, as someone in this thread mentioned earlier.

Whether I'm buying a $10 lot of commons or a $3000 card I always ask the seller what he's looking for. I also always have a price in mind when I do so. I do this for two reasons:

1) If the seller thinks what he has is much more valuable than it is, I don't want him thinking I am lowballing him, and risk having him turned off from the hobby, telling others I'm a crook, etc. I can't tell you the number of times someone with a 5000 count box of 80s commons has wanted between $200 and $500 for it.
2) If the seller isn't aware of the value, I tell him I'll pay more.

Even though I think the show is scripted crap, you can see the latter happen sometimes on Pawn Stars. To me, it's the right thing to do.

In general the number in my head is the max I'm willing to pay. No one would willingly want to pay the max they're willing to pay for anything.

If someone comes to my table with a $300 card, and I'm willing to pay $175, and he asks for $20, I would tell him that's not nearly enough, let him know what he has is valuable, and offer something more like $125. He's happy and feels treated appropriately. I'm happy because I got a card I wanted for less than I wanted to pay for it.

Now, as for whether the reverse is true...unless it's an egregious error on the dealer's part, or something that I think wasn't intended (ie, a card clearly out of place, or with an unfinished price tag or misplaced decimal) I don't report price discrepancies. If the seller doesn't realize what he had - I don't make it my mission to inform him unless I don't want the card. I've sold $20 cards for $1 because I didn't realize what I had, and I've bought $20 cards for $1 for the same reasons. To me that's because the dealer - the person who is making his money and possibly his living off of this - should know what he needs for his cards.

[ksabet]

Can Leon tell who voted for "Feign Ignorance" i'd like to stay away from those dealers/sellers

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by Kevin.Shenker

If you wear a skirt into an alley way you deserve to be raped? Pretty much the same thing you just said. They were asking for it for sure.

Not even close.

Jeff

[larrie804]

Many years ago (15 or so) I ask my sister in law to watch my tables at a small mall show while I went to listen to Cal Ripken, Jr speak at a public forum. The next morning, at the show, I found a note from my sister in law saying she had had a very slow evening....only one $5.00 sale! About 3 PM a lady came to my table and said she just couldn't do it. I asked her what she meant. She handed me the very nice 1954 Ted Williams card she had purchased from my sister in law the previous evening for $5.00! I was very surprised to discover what the $5.00 sale had been. I told the lady I was impressed with her honesty and gave her $50.00. The card had been marked $500.00.

Larrie Dean

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If you're going to inform an uneducated seller about the value of a card, does it matter if that seller is PWCC (the Brown OM back), or a relative of a deceased collector? I really see no difference. And I'm not saying there is a right or wrong answer, but I find it interesting how people justify things based on the roles of who the buyer/seller is.

That would depend on if the uneducated seller consigned cards, then admitted to allowing his consigners to bid on their own auctions.

[kilo]

a few years ago i was dealing heavily in vintage bmx bikes and parts. someof you know what i'm talikng about, some dont of course, but please bear with me here....

one day a friend calls me up (a competative dealer/collector friend i might add) and asks me what i think a chrome hutch windstyle frame might be worth. i inform him that no windstyler frames were ever issued in chrome, (which is quite true), so if it really is what he says that it had to be an aftermarket job. he tells me that he just bought one for $50 earlier in the day and says he will bring it up to the house for me to see (showing off pretty much). when he shows up i do get a chance to have a thorough look at it. i tell him it is most deffinitally NOT a windstyler frame, although it IS of high-quality based on the welds/chrome job/dropouts/etc, although i do not know what it is. i decided to make him what i thought was a fair offer based on what little info i had (which was pretty much nothing). i offered to triple his money, figuring it might leave me with around $50 or so of profit margin to work with, (keep in mind, this is only based on the quality of craftsmanship i can see in the frame, and still know nothing of who made it). he takes the offer and is quite happy. he just tripled his money in less than 12hrs, and is quite happy make sure i know this. i spend roughly the next 4 months sifting through information, emailing pics with other dealers, and talking on the phone with high-end collectors about this frame. finally some credible information comes through! turns out that said frame is an excedingly rare revcore freestyler of which roughly only 75 or so were made, and i get an approximate value of what it should retail at: around $500-600. ok, now i am informed! i list it on the bay with a bin of $450 (leaving someone else room for their own profit margin of course) and lasts all of about 10 minutes. a few days go by and the "friend" asks me if i had any luck on finding out what that frame that he tripled his money on. so i give tell him everything i found out and that it had sold (and, yes, for how much -we were friends after all-). all of the sudden he gets PISSED!
edited to add: i should add that he was pissed off at me. saying how i had ripped him off. and that now i owe him money.

anybody wanna tell me why he is not my friend anymore?



--mike kilo.

[PolarBear]

I don't think you did anything wrong in the bike frame transaction. You took a chance on something that was unidentified and spent time and effort doing your own research to add value to it.

Nothing wrong with that. Too bad your "friend" didn't see it that way.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

For those posting that they think that the dealer has an obligation to inform...I call BS. If you are "stupid" enough to take a card that you know nothing about to a card show and sell it to the first dealer you approach, you deserve to be low balled.

Sorry to be so "rude" about this, but in today's age of information (on your phone, computer, tv, etc.) there is no excuse other than laziness for not being informed.

Jeff

I don't think it is "laziness" or "stupid" not to find information on a print freak like shown in this thread. Obviously, someone posting on a vintage baseball card site will know that such print freaks have been in demand in recent years. The card shown in the original post is a lot different from, say, a Cracker Jack Joe Jackson or a T206 Plank, where the value will instantly pop up with any number of search terms.

I could easily see how someone would try to research the value of the card shown in the original post and still not have any idea of the value. Putting terms like "John McGraw baseball card" or "John McGraw T206" into Google generates result after result that give no indication of the value of the card shown. The "no excuse" for not being informed on something obscure like a print freak seems really off the mark, IMO.

Some of the posts in this thread just seem like a rationalization to fleece someone.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

The "no excuse" for not being informed on something obscure like a print freak seems really off the mark, IMO.

Exactly, which is why I chose it for the poll. This card looks like a mess and is not easy to find with Google unless you already know what you're looking for.

[pokerplyr80]

My thought is it would depend on the situation. Is this some old lady trying to sell her husband's collection? Did the person ask what the dealer feels the card is worth or what is a fair price?

If someone walked up and said I'm trying to get $50 bucks for this card are you interested, I don't necessarily see a problem with paying the asking price. If someone is asking for help because they don't know what they have the right thing to do would be to offer a fair price that leaves the dealer to make a fair profit.

[Rich Klein]

And some peopel don't want to know or care.

This is a real life situation which came up. One of the dealer4s at the show I run also runs a local show. He wanted to buy all pre-1980 non basebal cards and I offered him a very fair price (and would have kicked in some other stuff as well; the post-1980 non BB cards I carry)


One of the cards I had (and tried to explain to him just how well he'd do with the deal was a slate 1948B Arnie Risen card. Tried to explain what it was and how much was it worth. His answer to me was something to the effect he did not really want the education to have to explain that to a customer.

Long story short, friend of mine comes to my show about 2 months later. Looks at that card, buys it immediately (Gave him a very deep discount since he has helped me get guests for our show AND went to the same college I did AND sends out promotions for our show)

He was beaming with his purchase and I said we're probably hte only 1 pwoplw whol knew what that card really was

Sometimes the customer does not care. Just because "WE" know the card is expensive does not mean the average collector might think its anything more than a messed up flluke.

Me, if something like that came in, I'd call LEON and tell him to get his butt down to my show - as I've seen him do for other collectors

Rich