Can we say something positive about PSA or is it always terrible?

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Posted By: Stan

Besides errors and negative issues, I still remain a loyal fan of PSA grading.
Any one out there shares the same point?
Yes, PSA is not perfect and, of course they make mistakes,however, they grade more cards than any other grading company, therefore their intake volume is higher.

CAN YOU, COLLECTORS, PROVIDE POSITIVE FEEDBACK HERE SOMETIMES?

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Posted By: Dave

I also still believe, overall, that PSA graded cards sell for more money than SGC, maybe not with all the collectors on 54, but typically on ebay, thats what i see take place

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Posted By: RayB

I've always liked PSA and the product. We have them partially to thank (along with eBay) for revolutionizing the hobby, bringing people back to the hobby and inspiring folks to organize what they do with the hobby in new and different ways.
The PSA Set Registry was a stroke of genius.
Although I eschew the competitive part of that; others have found it provocative and invigorating in their pursuits.
I personally like to use it for its checklisting capabilites, it's image hosting of my scans in the set, and it gives me access to viewing my own cards and sets of other good folks cards on the road; a place I spend a lot of time away from my cards.
My humble T-206 set is there which I love to share.

http://www.psacard.com/set_registry/display_cards.chtml?rsetid=33376&alltime=no&rank=37&tied=0&requesttimeout=9999

So I am, for one, happy to talk about what PSA is, and not what they are not.
It's all about the fun anyway.
RayB

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

PSA did cooperate with the Feds when WIWAG was breaking out cards from their holders and replacing them with inferior cards!

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Posted By: Cobby33

Personally, I have no problem with PSA and generally have no preference between the 3, though I try to avoid GAI just because their labels are ugly.

With regard to PSA, I've had some great customer service experiences with them and some really horrible ones. SGC, however, always exhibits great customer service.

Just my $.02.

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Posted By: ScottIngold

SGC & GAI are tops for me. Unless selling of course.
Than PSA is tops. See something positive.

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Posted By: cmoking

I like PSA, I think they are in general good for the hobby.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

It is very considerate of PSA to make their holders easy to crack open.

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Posted By: leon

I think PSA is good for SGC (is that positive?)

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Posted By: Steve M.

PSA's pop reports are easier to navigate than SGC's.

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Posted By: David Vargha

Joe Orlando is a positive role model for the youth of America.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Bob

PSA's use of the condom holders which allow caramel cards to bang around the slab inspired SGC and GAI to develop custom fit holders.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

looks a little like Dracula minus the cape. Too pale with JET black hair.

Where's McKee when you need him?

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Posted By: leon

Where's Wonka when you need him?

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Posted By: Joann

I sent 6 cards in to PSA for grading - using my vouchers for joining. Never sent anything to PSA before. They accidentally damaged one of my M101-5's - in the sealing process I think. I'm a factory rat for many years, so I certainly understand how this can happen. The card would have graded a 6 before damage, and graded a 4 afterwards.

They offered me three options:

Return the card to me in a 4 holder, plus cash in the amount of the SMR difference between a 4 and a 6.

Buy the card outright at SMR for a 6.

Give me vouchers for free grading for 2x the value.

The vouchers would be worth about $90, and he said he'd give me $100 worth. I left a voice mail saying I'd take one of the Super Express ($50) and three of the Regular ($45 total) and call it good at $95. I got a return voice mail saying they'd make it the Super Express plus four regulars, for $110.

No way I would have gotten $110 out of that card, and I was more than willing to be square at $95.

I thought that was excellent customer service, and really appreciated not only being given options, but that they bumped it up higher than their policy for vouchers, and then higher than I would have taken.

So I was impressed. I still like SGC holders better, but I thought PSA really did a good job managing that situation. It's not like I'm a big customer, and the cards were low-cost commons.

Joann

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Posted By: Mark Turner

They need to get their act together on the wrong holders for certain cards. It should fit the card no matter what. If they are out of the holder they need to fit the card then get more. They are a multi million dollar company, please. You don't put a t206 in a 1995 topps holder!!!!

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Posted By: Bob

Joann- Just curious, how did you establish that they were to blame for damaging the card? Did you send a scan of the card before shipment or did they contact you and 'fess up?
Bob

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Posted By: Joann

They called me to let me know. I don't have them back yet (the batch I sent in), so I wouldn't have known before now.

I don't know what the damage looked like. They said some of the print came off the front. But it couldn't have been very dang much because it still graded a 4. So ... it's very possible they could have returned it as a 4 and I may never have noticed, except by accident.

J

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Posted By: Joe Jones

Think in the future...... How long will PSA cards actually sell for more than SGC?

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Posted By: Colt McClelland

I think PSA sucks. Period.

A trained monkey could do a better job grading cards.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Colt,

You've just insulted all trained monkeys...

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Posted By: jay behrens

CU banned me from thier boards Just one less place I have to look at for card info. That's postive

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: MikeU

"Yes, PSA is not perfect and, of course they make mistakes,however, they grade more cards than any other grading company, therefore their intake volume is higher."

Fact: PSA grades about 5 times as many cards as SGC per month. The ratio has been pretty steady for about 6 years. Does PSA make more or less than 5 times the mistakes.

Please realize this fact e.g. 5 times the volume, when using the "Volume" card.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Mike,

I'm going to assume that you are wondering if there is a 5:1 ratio of error labels by PSA vs SGC due to the volume of cards that PSA handles.

From what I've seen PSA has a greater than 5:1 ratio of boners. If you look at some of the blunders you'll see that they are not small errors. I think one of the more popular PSA errors is a T206 of Heine Wagner marked HONUS WAGNER. That's not a little error.

Let me see, something positive to say about PSA -

check back tommorrow, I may have thought of something by then...

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I would like to see the data on the number of cards SGC and PSA grade each month in the prewar arena, not shiny, glossy, refracting stuff. I doubt that it is 5x as much, but more to your point, yes, I do beleive they make more than 5x the mistakes.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

We are getting away from positives, guys. I have one!

PSA is way ahead of SGC, alphabetically!

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Posted By: Ricky Y

I do give kudos to PSA for having a more user friendly web page than SGC. I still can't figure out SGC's search for pop reports. Everytime I type a players name, nothing shows up...they need to upgrade their site.

But submitting cards to SGC is much easier than PSA.

Grading wise I think SGC is better in older stuff (pre war) but sometimes the grades I get back from them has me scratching my head as well...

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Posted By: JMLS

There is no doubt in my mind that PSA is a sore eye for the hobby. I have conducted more than a three-year study of their company and how they work. I have only two questions to ask. I wold like to know how many people on this forum or perhaps you know that sent a card or cards to PSA to be graded and PSA said it was a fake? If so, what happened to your original card or cards that you sent to them? I believe that is a fair question to ask.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I've only had limited dealings with PSA as I am an SGC dealer and send them all my submissions. But PSA was helpful and worked with me when I sent them two difficult CdV's that needed to be authenticated. I think they are a very big company with too many cards to grade and not enough time in the day to do it. As a result, they will be more prone to mistakes. Most of the label errors are silly and just look like the work of people who can't keep up with all the submissions. I know there are horror stories that others have but my dealings with them have been positive.

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Posted By: Mark Holt

I like both companies - PSA and SGC, and agree with Ray that grading companies and eBay have made the hobby better.

I like the PSA Registry and wish that SGC would just copy the look and feel of it - being able to scan through a sets cards (if scans are attached) quickly is one feature, linking population figures is another.

I use both companies and have sent a lot more submissions to PSA than SGC and have had 3 'mechanical errors' with PSA and none with SGC - since the sample size with SGC is much smaller its hard to draw a conclusion from that.

SGC holders look better and their service seems better from my experiences, but resale on post war and sports other than baseball is definitely better with PSA.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Looks like our friend with the fake Thorpe is back again.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: MikeU

"resale on post war and sports other than baseball is definitely better with PSA."

This is the biggest myth in the industry. I have been researching this for several months and have posted the links here before. Here they are again. SGC beats PSA more often then the lose. If they ever achieve even close to parity on registry participation, they will aboslutely dominate.

As for PSA positives:
1. They didn't start grading, but they certainly were clever enough to revolutionize it and make it become a main stream item.
2. Dave Hall's registry idea was simple brilliance and brought back set collecting to the masses.
3. Immediately focusing on the Honus card for the first card to be graded was also brilliant (ignoring the sheet cut fact).
4. Adding population reports and charging people for them was brilliant.
5. Giving out awards and making set or collectors "Hall Of Fame" members was brilliant for the hypercompetitive high end guys.
6. They are a great marketing company e.g. links to the Smithsonian baseball book, the coordination with Mastro on the new book etc.

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1340142&an=0&page=0#Post1340142>

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1258446&an=0&page=0#Post1258446>

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1301611&an=0&page=0#Post1301611>

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Posted By: MikeU

"I would like to see the data on the number of cards SGC and PSA grade each month in the prewar arena, not shiny, glossy, refracting stuff. I doubt that it is 5x as much, but more to your point, yes, I do beleive they make more than 5x the mistakes."


When looking at pre-war only, the ratio is less than 5 to 1. However, giving PSA the beneifit of the doubt or being PSA positive, one could still consider a 5 to 1 error ratio to be acceptable for pre-war with PSA.

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Posted By: Jay

1.PSA registry set support is amazing. Cosetta Robbins is one of the most helpful, most capable, people I have ever worked with.

2.PSA is a serious, exchange listed, business. SGC is essentially a mom and pop operation out of a small office in Western N. J. Don't get me wrong, I like mom and pop, but we are talking about two very different size companies. IMHO, PSA dwarfs SGC in all facets of card grading outside of vintage baseball cards. Check the number of registry sets for each in 1950's football, non-sport, hockey. It ain't in the same zip code in most cases.

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Posted By: Joann

I think PSA is dead on by using qualifiers, even though they are controversial and occasionally get negative press on this board. But they are a perfect way to provide a "but for" grade. People actually struggle with the lack of this on SGC and GAI grading.

I can't count the number of times I hear both here and on ebay "this thing is a solid 4 - SGC just killed it because of small paper loss on the back" or something similar. It seems to me that the PSA qualifier system allows a card to get the grade that it generally presents as, or would actually get, "but for" a single defect of known type (off center, miscut, etc, but not rounded corners or paper loss).

I think the system should be expanded to add more qualifiers, but only those that are original to the printing (such as off center or miscut) or related to a single event (pinhole, paper loss). Items of general wear and tear like loss of gloss, rounded corners, couldn't get qualifiers.


Joann

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Posted By: Lentel

Scg didnt ever update theirs, dont even know if SGC has one anymore

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Posted By: Todd

"I would like to see the data on the number of cards SGC and PSA grade each month in the prewar arena, not shiny, glossy, refracting stuff."

Although it would be difficult at best to obtain the current submission numbers, a fairly easy way to get some rough idea is to check the population reports of both companies and look at the total number graded for any particular pre-war set.

Considering that PSA has been around about twice as long as SGC, some speculations can still be made. Generally speaking, the older and more scarce a set is, the greater the number of SGC submissions. For example, SGC has graded approximately:
- one-fourth as many 1933 Goudeys and 1915 CJ's as PSA
- half as many T204, T205, and T206's as PSA
- slightly more E90-1's and T200's than PSA
- twice as many N172's and T 222's as PSA

In keeping with the spirit of the thread, I agree that PSA's website is much easier to use than SGC's. They also make at least some attempt to distinguish between various N172 poses in their pop report while SGC lists only the players' names.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I've made a lot of great trades over the years with the registry types trading high grade common cards I purchased raw and had PSA slab for cards I really wanted. Kudos to PSA for starting that trend.

I got a lot of my 1970s cards graded for free when they messed up their on-time guarantee in the old days and had to voucher me around 60 freebies. So that's good, right?

They undergraded a 1954 Aaron twice for a dealer friend of mine, which made it possible for me to buy it for my collection at a 7 price. Thanks guys!

They decided not to do 1/2 grades, which let me buy a bunch of PSA 7s and cross them over to SGC 86's. Way to go, fellas!

And last, but not least, they provide endless sources of amusement.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

If you're at all into the registry stuff or population reports, you surely realize quickly that PSA is superior to SGC. Just check out the SGC pop report on the 1958 Topps set; there is no accounting for yellow lettered varieties or the Herrera error card, probably the rarest post-WWII card in existence.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I would suggest we either have a permanent "PSA sucks" thread or a permanent "PSA v. SGC" thread so there is no need to renew this topic every three days.

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Posted By: DJ

I agree. As well as a "check out this T206 Wagner" and Mr. Mint category.

I can say that I like PSA a lot more than PRO. From what I have seen, PRO tends to overgrade cards and even in a couple occasions, grade cards that appeared to thin.



DJ

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Peter,

I would venture to guess that it's been about a week since we've seen a PSA Sucks thread but the permanent PSA Sucks thread idea is great idea!

DJ,

Wow, that pretty much summed up a lot, PSA vs PRO.


Perhaps a new poll would be in order:

PSA

1) Sucks
2) Really Sucks
3) Really Really Sucks
4) Is great, but only on April 1st of every year
5) Really Really Really Sucks

Shoot, I really wanted to say something positive about PSA, actually I did, it's choice 1.

Ok, for all of you PSA enthusiast, that was somewhat of a joke, I don't think PSA totally sucks. They just SUCK. Ok, I'll admit, I've got PSA encapsulated cards. Hold it right there - that's it. Something positive:

You can store more PSA encapsulated cards in a row than you can SGC cards. The PSA cards are more storage friendly. There, that wasn't too bad... yuck, now I have this awful taste left on my finger tips...

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Posted By: MikeU

"Just check out the SGC pop report on the 1958 Topps set; there is no accounting for yellow lettered varieties or the Herrera error card, probably the rarest post-WWII card in existence."

Not true. Look in the population reports and certain cards will be underlined. If you click on those cards, a screen pops up and gives the details split of the variations.

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Posted By: MikeU

"Although it would be difficult at best to obtain the current submission numbers"

Acutally it is very easy to find out the total numbers. Now by decade or set, that is a completely different story.

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Posted By: Anonymous

....except not in the 1958 Topps set which does not distinguish between the yellow lettered variations and the Herrera error card, the rarest postwar card, period. Am I missing something here?

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Posted By: Josh K.

Jeff,

SGC does distinguish b/t white and yellow letters in the 58 topps set. If you go to clemente, for example, on the second page of the report, his name is in blue (ie signifying there is a link). If you click it, you get the following:

0 0 8 14 30 24 22 20 19 4 6 4 0 0 0 1 152
White Letters 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
Total 0 0 8 14 30 24 22 21 19 4 6 4 0 0 0 1 153

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

Something positive, let's see...

You can crack a card out of an SGC holder and get a higher grade with PSA?

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Posted By: Larry

About PSA....
Right Now...They are the only company with a quality print magazine for the collectors at this time, Beckett is nowhere as important lately and SCD is just asleep... even if the prices are wrong which they are, we can just multiply or deduct a percentage to acheive a realistic price, they have kept their name strong by putting out the SMR, for SGC or GAI to really talk on that level, they need to come out with a better marketed magazine which just is not there yet.

We all have experienced frustration with PSA, gosh, I know I have... but I have also experienced frustration with all three services at some time... and yet without them, better or worse, the grading services make the hobby look more professional to the new collectors coming in. Dealers make a living and collectors get a better product more often than not even though they all make mistakes. From the way it was in the 70's-80's when grading was so exploited and overstated, better standards were initially established by PSA , and these could be again improved and revamped by all three major grading companies.

I miss The Trader Speaks....

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Posted By: jay behrens

...and Baseball Hobby News

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Larry

Jay..

That one was a good one, oh yes the Barnings!
I do miss that part of the hobby, affordable advertising, real articles that were informative and positive...great add on Jay....

The grading company(s) that can incorporate a good print magazine, efficient and conscise online services and most important realistic grading standards that are not too strict and not too lenient, guarantee of value and consideration for cards that appear much nicer but may have a minor tech flaw, not lumping those into one low grade category, and most important overall quality consistancy will be the long term winner(s).

lets hope for the best...