The Oaks Show and SGC Grading

[danmckee]

Hello everyone, I don't post much any more due to a few mental midgets that thought I was ousting auctions which was a joke. Jerks you know who you are.

Anywho, I just setup at the Oaks show in Philly and did very well. I did well thankfully to about 5 regular customers that came there to see me and that was it.

The show was horribly attended, period. That show is deader than Hunt's if that is possible, back to Chantilly for this vintage dealer.

I had an unbelievable great time with Wonka, Jim Rivera, Leon, and another local friend of mine. Well worth the trip.

SGA-- WHAT A F______G JOKE! I made a large submission about 8 months ago that took about 6 months to get back. I don't care about the time but GOD DAMN IT!!! I had to bust 50% of the cards out of the holders! They were embarrassingly under graded!!! PERIOD! I have some absolute KILLER Old Judges that will soon be on ebay that were under graded by people who have no clue about the issue. Very sad.

They owed me a $300 credit from a mishap and you know what, they were EXCELLENT in making that right!!! So I thought I would bend a little and throw them some of it back.

I submitted 8 cards and called it even and they were very happy with that.

Out of the 8 cards I received (6) SIX AUTHENTICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are u fkg kidding me?????????????????????????????????????????????

My 1934 Goudey Gehrig that dad and I collected in the late 1970s with rounded corners and a crease, I was expecting a 2, praying for a 3.

I get an A????????????????????????

Are you FKG kidding me???????????????????????????????????????????

I am so done with SGC that I thought I would post this.

I want to thank Dave for being good with the credit and customer service

But I am absolutely sick about my grades.

A T205 that was from a family where the buyer of the cigarettes took the cards out of the packs and put them in a cigar box. I get a 7.5 from PSA on a Cy Young from there and SGC gives me a 4 on the Mattern!!!!!! They circle a spot on the edge that has a slight missing of the gold but it is not scraped but just wasn't printed. No creases, sharp corners and a gem!!!


This grading stuff is a complete JOKE!!!!


I hope SGC calls me again one day asking for a large submission. I am going to tell them that I can't affor the cut marks on my hands popping pathetically under graded cards out of their holders.


This hobby has changed, changed for the worse by far.

You people into the grading BS, God bless you!

I feel very sorry for you.

Sincerely,

Dan Mckee

[hangman62]

Dan,
great post.... Dont let ,mental midgits keep you from posting... very turthful and entertaining !
RalG

[Rich Klein]

to give PSA another chance

[danmckee]

Thanks Rich! PSA barred me after I sued them for losing my Magies error and won!!!

Grading companies are wonderful!

[barrysloate]

Yikes- you have the same thread going twice. I posted a not so funny joke on the other one>

[ruth-gehrig]

What do you mean PSA lost your Magie?? How long was that legal battle?? Did you get what it was insured for?? What a disaster? Do you believe something crooked happened with the situation??

[kcohen]

Maybe you just got a bad grader. Do you know who the grader was? Was his name Vanilla Geek?

[danmckee]

Kenny, u r my new favorite comedian! That was funny! Thanks for hanging out last night and thanks for having a great time!


To the gent that asked about my Magie, there is a full thread on the old board to read about it, I won in court, and Joe "Slime" Orlando screamed and hung up on me when I asked him to pay my legal fees like was stated on the back of their submissions.

[MW1]

Dan,

Can you post some images of the cards?

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by MW1

Dan,

Can you post some images of the cards?

+1 Show us some of those cards Dan!!

[timber63401]

This isnt directed at you as much as grading in general but I love how we all run to pay another human being to grade our cards then are mad when it doesnt get what we think it should.

[ruth-gehrig]

Yeah and this is a totally serious question....What does it take to be a card grader at PSA, SGC? What kind of qualifications or experience does a card grader require? Training?? Serious question

[danmckee]

First off, I don't "run" to anyone to get my cards graded. 99.9% of my keeper collection, that will trash yours I am sure, is all RAW!.

I rarely grade but will grade so I can sell to idiots that pay more for cards graded by idiots that have no clue.

I have been doing this 40+ years, I "run" to no one for anything!

And I have forgotten more than any of the idiot grading companies will ever know.

I will try to scan a few for you guys, I have to unpack from the show

Dan

PS I know that wasn't directed at me but I wanted to use it as a stress release! thanks

[snider4prez]

Damm Dan!!! You are pretty pissed here. I am sure rightfully so but really whats the big deal just ask for your money back, show them that you took the cards out of there holders and you are not happy. Not to sound so point blank by any means but F them and get your money back. You know enough good collectors that trust your grading skills to sell to. Send me a list of what you got and I will see if I can help. Say hi to your Dad for me, I hope you are doing well other than this silly card stuff?

Trevor Hocking

[danmckee]

Ask for my money back? I paid them $1800+ and had to pop 50% of the cards. I can't ask them for the money back, I paid for a service and they provided it. It was just a PISS POOR service! The OJ's are gem! maybe a touch of silver fish paper eating on back, a 1.5???? WHAT A JOKE! Backs shouldn't even matter on old judges, image quality should be important. I have 5's that you can't see the image hardly. This grading is a complete joke and a cancer to the true hobby!

I sent in 300+ cards and busted half of them out, EMBARRASSING!

[danmckee]

Yea, I am way pissed Trevor, but cured from ever sending in another large submission. Probably a blessing in disguise.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by danmckee

this grading is a complete joke and a cancer to the true hobby!

yep!!

[kcohen]

Yea Dan. Hanging out and getting stupid with hobby friends is the best part of card shows, which is why the hobby will be so diminished if/when they disappear.

As to OJ grading, I've whined about this often. You could submit some smokey unidentifiable image with sharp corners and a clean back and it gets a 5 or 6, whereas a crystal clear sharp photo image with scrapbook damage on the back gets a 1. Makes no sense. Frankly, I think that most OJ collector's couldn't give a rat's (!) about the numerical grade.

[danmckee]

I completely agree Ken! To a true collector, the numerical grade is but a joke!

[CubsFanCurt]

I've never believed in grading. When I was a kid I just wanted a card and VG or MNT didn't mean a damn thing. Condition is condition and I don't need a slab to tell me what I have and I won't pay extra because it's slabbed

[danmckee]

I can live with the yellow Gehrig and the recently acquired Washington Times but the T205 BLAZER was from the family that removed it from a pack and the rounded corner Gehrig has been in my set since 1975. A complete embarrassing joke!

[timber63401]

Originally Posted by danmckee

First off, I don't "run" to anyone to get my cards graded. 99.9% of my keeper collection, that will trash yours I am sure, is all RAW!.
I rarely grade but will grade so I can sell to idiots that pay more for cards graded by idiots that have no clue.

I have been doing this 40+ years, I "run" to no one for anything!

And I have forgotten more than any of the idiot grading companies will ever know.

I will try to scan a few for you guys, I have to unpack from the show

Dan

PS I know that wasn't directed at me but I wanted to use it as a stress release! thanks

I stopped reading there. Congrats...for being a douche

[danmckee]

CubsfanCurt! WOW! Where have you been?? You must have bee around for awhile. That is how collecting used to be when it was fun!!! Good for you, I think you and I are the only 2 left!

[danmckee]

Why thank you Timberdouche, while you stopped reading, do yourself a favor and stop writing, u r an idiot.

[danmckee]

Telling me I run to get something graded and then complain, well I guess that makes me a douche, sorry, I don't run to anyone for anything.

[oldjudge]

I "run" to no one for anything

After catching up with Dan at the National I can vouch for the fact that his running days are long behind him. :-) Don't let the bastards get you down--those cards look good to me. Any of those Old Judges for sale? Best to your dad!

[barrysloate]

Dan- nobody has complained more on this board about how poorly OJ's are graded than me, but we all know that going in. If you have one with a gem front but some paper loss on the back, you will get hammered. You had to know that when you submitted. I know, it stinks, but it's never going to change. Graders obsess over technical flaws, often missing the big picture. The fact that a card may otherwise be a gem doesn't seem to sway them. But we know it, so you either have to work within the system or keep them raw.

And on the other thread, you complained about the poor crowds at the show. That isn't hard to figure out either. When nearly ever dealer puts his material out at double retail, consumers will stop wasting their time traveling to these shows. A show is a good place to catch up with old friends, but a terrible place to get a fair deal. Collectors will continue to avoid them. Shows are not part of the hobby's future, but a piece of its past.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Yea Dan. Hanging out and getting stupid with hobby friends is the best part of card shows, which is why the hobby will be so diminished if/when they disappear.

As to OJ grading, I've whined about this often. You could submit some smokey unidentifiable image with sharp corners and a clean back and it gets a 5 or 6, whereas a crystal clear sharp photo image with scrapbook damage on the back gets a 1. Makes no sense. Frankly, I think that most OJ collector's couldn't give a rat's (!) about the numerical grade.

+1

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- nobody has complained more on this board about how poorly OJ's are graded than me, but we all know that going in. If you have one with a gem front but some paper loss on the back, you will get hammered. You had to know that when you submitted. I know, it stinks, but it's never going to change. Graders obsess over technical flaws, often missing the big picture. The fact that a card may otherwise be a gem doesn't seem to sway them. But we know it, so you either have to work within the system or keep them raw.

And on the other thread, you complained about the poor crowds at the show. That isn't hard to figure out either. When nearly ever dealer puts his material out at double retail, consumers will stop wasting their time traveling to these shows. A show is a good place to catch up with old friends, but a terrible place to get a fair deal. Collectors will continue to avoid them. Shows are not part of the hobby's future, but a piece of its past.

I just got back from the Oaks show late last night. A few observations I had were.....the show was dead as far as end-user attendance. That being said I had a great time with the usual crowd of friends. Dan, Jim R, John M., Ted Z were all there quite some time and/or set up. John was my chauffeur again and I can't thank him enough. Try flying into a city and needing a ride everywhere and not know where your going....and that was me. But with John's kindness I didn't have a worry in the world. And how can I forget Fred Mckie's kindness in picking me up at the airport on the way in. Again, I am very thankful to him for that. We had a great ride to the show and I got to hear some great stories about the old hobby days, which I absolutely love hearing about. Back to the show though......I am with Dan on the number of folks attending. I am not sure 25 people went past our booth the whole time. I was stuck in a back corner away from everyone, it seemed, until Dan and John rescued me and pulled my table over to theirs. At least then I was by friends and it made the show very enjoyable. I had a good personal show but it was the worst ROI for B and L Auctions investment since my personal debacle in the restaurant business. I absolutely can NOT justify doing that again as a business decision where my company is concerned. Actually, I will have to think very hard about doing any show again with that promoter, again given where I was put with my table. It was that bad. I might as well have been in the parking lot, which actually would have been far better (though they might have loitering laws against it.) The promoter is a very nice person and I like him but this was business and to say my initial location sucked would be an understatement. I was next to the front door ok, but there were drapes leading folks quite a ways away and leading them to all of the other auction houses. I was like.....Thanks a lot!!

I did manage to do quite a few sales and trades to a handful of people I knew so on a personal basis the show was pretty good. I can't deny that. I don't think those deals could have been made over the internet either. There just isn't the personal back and forth you have when you are in person. I am quite sure of that, actually. Val and I did some trades and deals and I know he and I were both very happy.

As for grading......I think you have to play it the way it is. I am not sure getting any card with a photo on it graded, is a good idea, as long as they don't take the real aesthetics into account. A gem mint photo, a spec of writing on the back, and you get a 10 or 20. If you have the outline of a player, sort of ghost front, but really sharp corners, then that would be a prime candidate for grading . SGC did some grading for me and they were spot on with their grades. I didn't give them any photographic type cards though .

[wonkaticket]

Dan's T205's from the find in MD, Mattern was in a 5 poped at the show became a 4...LOL.

[kcohen]

Leon - I too was quite happy with the deal you made with Val. I should have moved over to your area instead of staying in my personal Siberia with all those empty tables. Glad you made it back home safe and sound.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Leon - I too was quite happy with the deal you made with Val. I should have moved over to your area instead of staying in my personal Siberia with all those empty tables. Glad you made it back home safe and sound.

Woops...I am so sorry Ken......yes, Ken went to dinner with us and was one of our bunch too. I had a great time chatting with you Ken. How could I forget? I guess I was so worked up about the poor spot my table was in that I just forgot. And yes, the trade with Val and subsequent deal with you was very good too. I appreciate it very much. My sincere apologies for leaving you out of my initial post. You are definitely one of the nicest guys in the hobby!!

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by danmckee

First off, I don't "run" to anyone to get my cards graded. 99.9% of my keeper collection, that will trash yours I am sure, is all RAW!.

I rarely grade but will grade so I can sell to idiots that pay more for cards graded by idiots that have no clue.

I have been doing this 40+ years, I "run" to no one for anything!

And I have forgotten more than any of the idiot grading companies will ever know.

I will try to scan a few for you guys, I have to unpack from the show

Dan

PS I know that wasn't directed at me but I wanted to use it as a stress release! thanks

So just to recap your stress release:

You are upset because you, who runs to noone for 40+ years, ran to SGC to get your RAW cards graded. But the idiot graders (that have no clue how to grade) graded them objectively - which you forgot more than they know that due to paperloss they grade low - instead of grading them subjectively which could've made them 10s. And now the idiots who buy graded cards won't give you the profit you deserve.

and timber is a douche cuz your 99.9% raw keeper collection will trash his.

okay, got it!

[sportscardpete]

Ahh, too bad I missed the show. I was planning on going during the weekend, but didn't feel like dealing with the traffic from NY-PA.

Glad you guys had fun!

[3-2-count]

In a perfect world wouldn't it be great if only two designations were placed onto graded holders. "Authentic" representing a genuine unaltered card and "'Altered" representing a card that's been tampered with in some way such as trimming, re-coloring, etc. This notion has been mentioned before my many. One could place their own value on any given card based off of eye appeal alone not off of what some inconsistent third party grader felt they wanted to place on their flip on that given day which would more than likely be a different # the following day if re sent in. Simply crazy if you really think about what it's become. Although this will never happen since the system is so far gone a man can dream right??

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

So just to recap your stress release:

and timber is a douche cuz your 99.9% raw keeper collection will trash his.

okay, got it!

Rob - Not to speak for Dan, but in all fairness that's not what he was saying IMO. After all, Mr. Timber was the first to hurl the "d" word. Just sayin'.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Rob - Not to speak for Dan, but in all fairness that's not what he was saying IMO. After all, Mr. Timber was the first to hurl the "d" word. Just sayin'.

edited to keep it G rated.....

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Rob - Not to speak for Dan, but in all fairness that's not what he was saying IMO. After all, Mr. Timber was the first to hurl the "d" word. Just sayin'.

You're right Ken. But mr timber made a general non-aggressive statement about people getting stuff graded, and Dan went after him pretty rough with the "my collection will trash yours" comment. Perhaps I read it wrong. Dan is probably a very nice guy. He must be if Ken and Leon both get along with him haha . And this is his thread is his, but I just thought the way he was taking it out on mr timber was over the top. We are all collectors of cards, so no need to bash other people's collections with mine-is-bigger-than-yours comparisons. If anyone needs to get bashed for a poor collection its me!!!

Seriously Dan, sorry for interrupting, continue venting!

As a side note on grading ... I like that cards are graded objectively and not how they appear. Some people don't want paperloss (i happen to be fine w/it) at all with cards in their collection. If the paperloss is tiny but the card was given an "8" due to beautiful eye appeal, the buyer of the card may be unhappy since more often than not the seller wouldn't disclose the paperloss. Thats why I liked the idea of Becketts old grading system with 4 subgrades that made up the total grade. It gave you a better idea of what was wrong with the card. I'm sure SGC/PSA can make some money when they "revolutionize" the industry with subgrades and the collectors of plastic can resubmit their holders for new ones!

[calvindog]

Dan,

All your cards suck and are overgraded.

Sincerely,
Jeff

[Bicem]

We can use the word douche? This changes everything.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bicem

we can use the word douche? This changes everything.

lol

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Bicem

We can use the word douche? This changes everything.

only if you use it as a verb

[Orioles1954]

I too have been very frustrated with SGC's grading for the past year. I know they've had some substantial turnover, but I just can't wait for them to turn it around anymore. I want my cards to be accurately graded, not harshly graded. Harsh grading isn't good grading.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I too have been very frustrated with SGC's grading for the past year. I know they've had some substantial turnover, but I just can't wait for them to turn it around anymore. I want my cards to be accurately graded, not harshly graded. Harsh grading isn't good grading.

I haven't sent cards in for grading in years, but I only used SGC. The only reason I saw to get a card slabbed was if authenticity was questionable, or if I wasn't sure about trimming. SGC handled those issues fine.

But I found the grades I received to be almost nonsensical - they were clearly not in line with what the larger submitters were receiving, and so I cracked most and sold as raw, describing details accurately and providing good scans when selling. Not saying I won't send more to them, but I know what to expect. Sorry to see that Dan's experience indicates that little has changed.

Dan - quit pissing people off and submit in larger volumes.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Yeah and this is a totally serious question....What does it take to be a card grader at PSA, SGC? What kind of qualifications or experience does a card grader require? Training?? Serious question

You haven't heard? According to one poster in an older thread, there are some people who are put specifically on this earth to grade baseball cards.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

You haven't heard? According to one poster in an older thread, there are some people who are put specifically on this earth to grade baseball cards.

Oh FML that was funny.

[bobbyw8469]

You haven't heard? According to one poster in an older thread, there are some people who are put specifically on this earth to grade baseball cards.

The best grader on earth is the sole employee at GAI. I rest my case....

[hangman62]

Did I miss something..I thought when a member got a little mouth snippy..Someone stepped in and said....By the way Timbers real name is ?????????

maybe only certain guys thats done to ??

Ralph G

[bobbyw8469]

Did I miss something..I thought when a member got a little mouth snippy..Someone stepped in and said....By the way Timbers real name is ?????????

Good point Hangman!!!! I have looked in this entire thread, and only 3 people (myself included), have their full name in the thread for the world to see. I don't mind it obviously, but it does seem a little odd....

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Good point Hangman!!!! I have looked in this entire thread, and only 3 people (myself included), have their full name in the thread for the world to see. I don't mind it obviously, but it does seem a little odd....

I just didn't think about the names issue as I know all those who are bickering and posting. I should remind everyone of this part of the public, written rules concerning privacy, which haven't changed in quite some time.


"However, you may remain private on the board; otherwise, as long as your post is not argumentative, controversial, confrontational, accusatorial etc.…For example you can discuss attributes of cards, sets or memorabilia and stay private. You can not say someone is an imbecile, hard to deal with, gave poor service etc…and remain private on the board. In addition to that if your opinion is that you dislike someone, hate them, can’t stand or don’t like anything about them, and you want to tell the world about it on Net54baseball, then your full name will need to be in your post."




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