pencil marks on cards

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Posted By: sesop

hi. i recently got back into collecting after a 15 year hiatus and am focusing exclusively on t206s. several times i have seen cards for sale with writing/marks in pencil, on the back. if i bought these and erased them, would that decrease the value more? my interest is primarily in assembling a set of decent looking cards- not an investment- so if the value goes down a bit because i erased some pencil, i am not too concerned, but if the value is, say $50 for a particular card, and $30 with the pencil and $10 if i erase the pencil, then i likely wouldn't bother erasing.

any thoughts?

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Posted By: steve f

fwiw, I had a marked card returned "altered" due to eraser damage and had to settle for Auth. If it hadn't been touched it would have rec'd a Poor-Fair

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Posted By: David Vargha

You need to use the right kind of eraser if you are going to attempt this.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Jason

but I'll ask it anyway!
why isn't a card with a pencil or pen mark/writing considered "altered?"

Why is that gradable but once there's an attempt to erase it, it is then considered altered, and only eligible for an "Auth" grade? when all it really is, is a twice altered card?

sorry for being stupid, but it is Friday, and I wear down come the weekend, to be brutally honest...

Jason

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Posted By: jay behrens

Unless you are able to erase the pencil without leaving a trace, it's really not worth it to remove it as you end up with a damaged area, or at the very least, the indentation from the writing. Either way, you are left with something distracting on the card.

Jay

A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun."

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Posted By: Ray Piskadlo

Jason, I believe they use the term "altered" to describe a card that has been messed with to make it appear to be in better condition. A pencil mark technically is an alter to the card, but not one made to make the card seem to be in better condition.

Personally, some markings on cards are fun to obtain. I collect low-grade T206 cards and certain cards w/ names stamped on the back or written in pencil on the back make the card seem to come to life a little bit. Shows a history to the card.

Ask the OJ collectors about writing on the backs of some cards... it can even add to their value!

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Posted By: Bob

I have seen cards with pencil marks on the back erased and they sail through grading but on the other hand I had one with a very light pencil mark which I erased and the grading company caught it and sent it back "altered." You just never know.
I have a couple of Obaks and a couple of M116s which once belonged to Buck Barker and have his chicken scratching writing all over the back in red or blue ink. Because of who he was, I kept them. I had PSA slab them as PSA MK cards.

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Posted By: Jim Manos

They are called art eraser's. Go to a hobby or craft type place they have them. Grading company's cannot detect it either if you use a art eraser. If you use a regular pencil eraser they will detect it. Good Luck.

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Posted By: leon

Look for Mars Plastic erasers. They are great...and cost about $2 for a lifetime supply......they crumble as they erase. I have found them to be best.....regards

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Posted By: Joann

But do the erasures have to actually leave a visual cue for graders to base a grading decision on it? Or is knowing it was erased enough? There is one of the Herpolsheimer's cards on ebay now (or maybe recently ended - haven't been keeping up as well last few days), and one in a recent auction, that were graded without a MK qualifier by PSA. I think general knowledge or thinking is that all cards in this find had pencil markings on the back, and if there is none it must have been erased. The online auction (I forgot which) mentioned the likelihood of a pencil mark having been erased.

So if the PSA graders know there was an erasure, are they bound to include the consideration in the grade, or do they have to see actual evidence of it? What if someone walked into PSA with a card and said "I trimmed this card", but the grader could find no evidence of trimming? Knowledge of likely alteration, but inability to visually see it. Same outcome?

Joann

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

If a fault is undetectable, it does not exist.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Ive erased several cards with art erasers and it has left no trace - you need to do it very slowly and carefully so as to not erase any of the print or take any of the paper off. Many times, my cards have recieved higher grades as a result. I have also tried to erase pen (knowing that it would never erase completely) and left obvious indentations in the card - it still graded (and graded what it would have had the pen been not been somewhat erased) but looked a bit more pleasing. There are numerous opinions out there whether erasing is an alteration or not - I do not believe it is (there are also a number of threads on this) much as I dont believe removing scrapbook paper on the reverse with water is an alteration. On the other hand, if you start using power erasers, using chemicals on cards or doing things like trimming or recoloring - that is definitely an alteration.