Defeated by the Monster?

[MacDice]

Back in late July / early August I decided that my T206 Mathewson needed some friends so I decided to attack the “Monster.” Now a few months in it and 68 low grad raw cards later, I am starting to lose my motivation plus cash flow. I am trying to determine if I should give in and let the “Monster” beat me and liquidate or continue the fight. I know that a lot of you on this board have done both and would be interested in hearing what was your rational on the direction you took.

[PolarBear]

Do a Polar Bear back set.

[ethicsprof]

Be guided by the almost famous dictum:
The Monster wants you quit; don't listen to it.

It's okay to go about the taming slowly; it took me nearly a quarter of a century. It's well worth it.

all the best,
barry

[Cerberus]

I would suggest taking a second (third?) mortgage on your home, selling whatever scrap gold you or your wife may have laying about, taking a quick equity loan on your car, scouring your neighbors' recycling cans at 2 a.m. on trash day for cans and bottles, and then take all the funds and continue to buy cards

[Kenny Cole]

There isn't ever a set that can defeat you, you can only defeat yourself. If you want it, you'll get there. If you decide that fighting the monster isn't for you. there's only about 1000 other sets out there to look at. Its all good, whatever decision you make IMO. Find what you like and go for it. Best,

Kenny Cole

[T206DK]

I would not get discouraged. My brother and I had the same thing happen when we had around 160 cards but we patiently kept going. Putting this set together is a labor of love

[chris6net]

The Monster wants you to quit, I have over 400 different cards including most Slers and the O,Hara variation. Since I am a NY Rangers Hockey Fanatic and season ticket holder (6 seats) which is quite expensive as well as a partial NY Giants holder with my brother I have gotten into the habit of only looking for cards to finish my set in the off season. I just started looking last Sunday. CN

[tjb1952tjb]

Very funny Cerberus. But, I think I've already exhausted most of those suggestions......I have 454 of the 524 cards......70 more to go (actually 66 more to go....the big 4 will always elude me). Thanks for the laugh!!

[teetwoohsix]

I suggest looking at it as a very long term approach....you have actually came a long way already in a pretty short amount of time !! Don't be in too much of a rush with it, and just pick a card here and there- this will take longer, but it will be lighter on your bank account and it makes the anticipation of getting the card(s) that much more exciting (to me at least).

If you've just completely lost interest in the cards themselves, as someone else suggested, there are 1000's of other cool sets/cards to collect. Maybe you would enjoy type collecting?

Good luck- IMO keep going, don't let it beat you

Sincerely, Clayton

[Ladder7]

Im waiting til retirement. It'll be an excuse to stay in my room.

[bbcard1]

I'm nipping away. As my company has grown my cashflow has improved to allow me to work with the project a little more regularly, but make no mistake, I am a $10-15 common guy...working on something very low grade. Will probably not fool with the variations (though I did pick up a G. Brown) simply because I don't find them all that interesting. I am about halfway in. Had a little burst, but general rule is that it is what I am working on when I am working on something else. My big advantage was picking up 100 or so in low grade for $100 in the 80s, which set the direction (low grade) for my set.

It is you hobby. You are in control. If you'd be fine with accumulating a Giants set, then do it. Don't let a mantra control you, just roll with it.

[BleedinBlue]

When I started the monster my biggest concern was how to go about eating the elephant. For me the answer was to cut the beast into bite size pieces. I started with a Brooklyn subset which allowed me to see an achievable ending and actually accomplish this objective within a reasonable time and budget. Then I decided that it would be kinda cool to approach the set alphabetically so I took on the 14 "A" cards. Then the "B"'s, etc. Somewhere along the line I decided to pick up the non-SL minor leaguers as an inexpensive subset. And so on and so on and so on. For me the objective has always been 520/524 so except for the big 4, everything was on my wantlist somewhere, the key for me was prioritization. Now I sit at 411/524 and my wantlist is the remaining 109 cards. Finding them in grade at a price I am willing to pay has slowed down the hunt considerably over the past 3 months but I'm still chipping away. Picked up #411 last night (Steinfeldt w/bat, PSA 3.5).

Brian

[Robextend]

I had about 100 or so cards including some HOFers when I decided that my heart wasn't into it. I re-focused, did some research and found myself enamored with Tolstoi backs...started a few months ago and the more I accumulate them the more fun it gets.

Do what the little baseball card guy in your head tells you to do. You will never go wrong.

[usernamealreadytaken]

I personally got bored and am working on a Broad Leaf 460 back-set . . . so far I have 0.

[PolarBear]

Just a general question, not directed at the OP.

I've always thought that if you never will be able to get the big 4, then hasn't the monster defeated you before you even began?

I see people say that "completion" is 520/524 and they "defeated" the monster. I just don't see how that's a legitimate claim.

I don't collect T206 currently, but if I did, I would have to decide how to legitimately define a "mini monster" and defeat that. i.e. a Polar Bear back sub set, or a team set, or SL set, etc. Then I think you could say you legitimately defeated the mini monster.

As long as there are truly 524 cards in the set, and 99% of collectors will never be able to afford all 524, then 99% of us are beaten before we even begin.

[dstraate]

That's a very reasonable way of looking at it.

Welcome to my delusion. I have about 10. I accumulated them in the last two years. I keep telling myself that the big 4 will be possible because my income will be so much higher by the time I get there. I don't care if I'm taking out a mortgage for ol' Eddie at the age of 82. I'm getting there.

Interestingly enough, I'm also going to upgrade my acre in the Rocky Mts. to a 500 acre spread when finances allow.

Not bad for a teacher boys

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

I've always thought that if you never will be able to get the big 4, then hasn't the monster defeated you before you even began?

I see people say that "completion" is 520/524 and they "defeated" the monster. I just don't see how that's a legitimate claim.

I actually am going to use a carmel plank and a wagner I'll talk about later to "complete" my set. Depending, I may actually make a play for an authentic plank at some point.

Honestly, I think the Doyle and Magie are both expensive and uninteresting, adding nothing to the set, tough I have owned a Magie before, briefly. My collection, my rules.

[michael3322]

This is a great thread.

Just curious, how much $ would you estimate that it would cost to tame the monster at low-grade?

Thanks.

[E93]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

It's okay to go about the taming slowly; it took me nearly a quarter of a century. It's well worth it.

all the best,
barry

It only took me 23 years. It is ok to take periodic rests. Just put them aside for a while and come back when motivation strikes.
JimB

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Honestly, I think the Doyle and Magie are both expensive and uninteresting, adding nothing to the set, tough I have owned a Magie before, briefly. My collection, my rules.

I agree. As a former coin collector, there are plenty of varieties that may or may not appeal to collectors, but are NOT required for a complete set. Take the 1937-D 3-legged Buffalo Nickel for instance. It's a variety that was created by a mint employee over polishing the coinage die, which caused details to be lost. Many people seek to acquire the variety, but no one considers a Buffalo Nickel collection incomplete if you don't have it.

I consider the Magie and Doyle to be exactly the same situation. To me, a T206 set is a 522 card set, with additional varieties that can be acquired if they appeal to you. It's interesting though that almost no one in the card collecting community would see it that way.

[E93]

I think one could make a legitimate argument that Magie and Doyle N.Y. Nat'l are not necessary for a basic set since they are error cards. It is like a '79 Topps basic set does not need Bump Wills/Rangers.
JimB
P.S. That does not solve the Wagner and Plank problem.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by E93

I think one could make a legitimate argument that Magie and Doyle N.Y. Nat'l are not necessary for a basic set since they are error cards. It is like a '79 Topps basic set does not need Bump Wills/Rangers.
JimB
P.S. That does not solve the Wagner and Plank problem.

I'm glad you brought that up.


Personally, I'd solve the Plank and Wagner problem with another coin analogy. It's my belief, and I think most in the hobby agree, that these two cards were never issued in Piedmont packs. They would be kind of like proofs in the coin realm, that is, they were never issued for circulation. I realize proof in the card realm means something totally different.

It's like the 1895 Morgan Dollar, circulation strikes were made, but all of them were melted, only proofs, which were never released into circulation, still exist today. No one considers a Morgan Dollar collection incomplete if you don't have an 1895. Many people want one, but it isn't required for a complete collection because only coins released into circulation are part of the set.

Now, I realize that Plank and Wagner were released into "circulation" via Sweet Caporal packs.

However, defining your T206 set as Piedmont only will eliminate that problem since all Piedmont Plank and Wagners are "proofs", that is to say, they were never released into "circulation", and are therefore not required.

So, if I were chasing the monster, I'd define it as an all Piedmont set, which not only eliminates the big 4, but actually eliminates the big 6.

Now you have a legitimate "monster" of 518 cards (or more if you include factory 42 varieties).

Collecting T206 by back sets would be like collecting just a single mint from a series of coins. MANY coin collectors do this, and it's an established way to define a "set" of coins. For instance, some people only collect Carson City Morgan Dollars, or Dahlonega gold coins, or New Orleans Seated Liberty Halves.

I think T206 back sets are the future of T206 collecting. As complete sets become more and more expensive, and now that much of the back research has been published, people are going to take more interest in defining the "monster" in a way that not only appeals to them but makes completion a real possibility.

[bbcard1]

Granted this is sort of like using a corked bat...but...here's what I am doing about Mr. Wagner.

Years ago (two decades plus five), I met an old collector who had actually accumulated his collection by hanging around duckpin bowling alleys as a boy and gathering cards from cigarette packs discarded in the streets. He had a few hundred cards.

He told me about how all his friends were looking for a Wagner because everyone had heard of him. He finally found a picture in a magazine, pasted it to a Piedmont card and traded it for a bunch of cards to one of his buddies.

Years later, I consigned a collection from Lynchburg, about 50 miles away. Among it was a picture of wagner pasted on a Piedmont back. Have always wondered if it could have travelled boy to boy over the 50 miles to get into the collection. It is no doubt from the same period. I eventually procured the card for my own collection and have had it ever since.

That will my T206 Wagner and I am very cool with that. Not sure a real one would mean more to me.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Granted this is sort of like using a corked bat...but...here's what I am doing about Mr. Wagner.

Years ago (two decades plus five), I met an old collector who had actually accumulated his collection by hanging around duckpin bowling alleys as a boy and gathering cards from cigarette packs discarded in the streets. He had a few hundred cards.

He told me about how all his friends were looking for a Wagner because everyone had heard of him. He finally found a picture in a magazine, pasted it to a Piedmont card and traded it for a bunch of cards to one of his buddies.

Years later, I consigned a collection from Lynchburg, about 50 miles away. Among it was a picture of wagner pasted on a Piedmont back. Have always wondered if it could have travelled boy to boy over the 50 miles to get into the collection. It is no doubt from the same period. I eventually procured the card for my own collection and have had it ever since.

That will my T206 Wagner and I am very cool with that. Not sure a real one would mean more to me.

Not only did that make me smile, it also warmed my heart.

In my opinion you just illustrated the essence of collecting.....

[Orioles1954]

I don't like to attempt sets I can't complete. A person can talk until they're blue in the face about having a T206 set "minus the Big 4" and I will politely say "I'm sorry, it's a nice near set but not complete". Admittedly, I've grown extremely bored of the T206 set over the years. IMHO, the T212 Obaks have much better lithography with exception to the household names. However, side projects such as a team set with different backs can be fun.

James

[Clark7781]

I have about 175 cards of the MONSTER. I know that with two businesses, three kids (with a fourth on the way), a house, wife, dog, and LIFE in the way, it will take some time to finish the BEAST. But I plan to do it. I doubt I will ever get a Wagner or Plank, but think a low grade Magie and Doyle may be feasible sometime down the road.

I'm not a condition sensitive prude, so I am fine with beaters - personally I find them sexy and well loved.

I have a lot of the big HOF names all ready in some not too shabby conditions, but will not walk away from a white hat Matthewson with a poor rating - they are just too sexy to say no to.

I plan on taking my time and enjoying the thrill of the hunt for my next card to complete the monster.

For me, it's the thrill of the hunt!

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by E93

I think one could make a legitimate argument that Magie and Doyle N.Y. Nat'l are not necessary for a basic set since they are error cards. It is like a '79 Topps basic set does not need Bump Wills/Rangers.
JimB
P.S. That does not solve the Wagner and Plank problem.

+1

[E93]

Originally Posted by Clark7781

I I doubt I will ever get a Wagner or Plank, but think a low grade Magie and Doyle may be feasible sometime down the road.

FYI, a Doyle would cost you a lot more than a low grade Plank.

[Jason Carota]

I was in the same boat as you when I first attempted the Monster back in 2004. I ended up liquidating to pursue other cards. Now that I am back at it again, my biggest regret was liquidating key cards. I wish I had them now.

If you do decide to sell, keep a few of the bigger cards. Who knows, you may make another attempt later.

[ethicsprof]

wow, 23 years!
i bet you finished your dissertation faster than i did,too!!
all the best,ole prof. buddy
barry

[jp1216]

I just went over 50%. I started with a few cards - nothing special. That led to a Cleveland team set. Lots of HOFers! Ouch. But put me on the path to the 'monster'. Low grade all the way. Probably won't mess with variations. Already sold off a low grade F. Smith.

Wagner and Plank are both RPs in my set. Not fakes - just legit RPs. The 80s version with the yellow and white back.

If anyone wants a cool T206 collector box for raw cards :

http://www.dakotawoodcrafts.com

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by jp1216

I just went over 50%. I started with a few cards - nothing special. That led to a Cleveland team set. Lots of HOFers! Ouch. But put me on the path to the 'monster'. Low grade all the way. Probably won't mess with variations. Already sold off a low grade F. Smith.

Wagner and Plank are both RPs in my set. Not fakes - just legit RPs. The 80s version with the yellow and white back.

If anyone wants a cool T206 collector box for raw cards :

http://www.dakotawoodcrafts.com

That's a good idea...use reprints for the few that I won't be able to afford. I think I will use that idea! Thanks!

And for the record, I do believe the collecting 520/524 IS the complete set. If you count the big 4, you would be including short prints and error cards (which are short prints). So, ultimately if you collected 520/524 you would have collected the regular issued set minus the "special" cards of the set, which are irregular...JMO.

If you collect all 524, then all the better

[kllrbee]

Got 447 of the 520. G-VG average, some better, some worse. About 320 raw. Actually have about 75 dupes and if I could sell or trade them, Id be close to done

My advice is to pick up lots when and if u can afford it. It really helps if u can grab 100 cards at once.

If not, break it into subsets or backs. They are your cards, u need to do what makes u happy.

Btw, X2 on the reprints for the big 4....Dont even know what those would go for low grade, but really not in my plans. 520 is killin me as is....lol.

Good luck OP!

[Edwolf1963]

I completed (IMO) a few months ago minus "the big 6". I didn't have the O'Hara and Demmit STL - and wasn't really looking for them. Time, money, etc all played in. I have since purchased a nice Demmit at the Chicago Sun Times show last month (SGC40), so am now down to the "set minus 5". May go for one of the O'Hara's in REA before it closes.

All slabbed/graded - mid-grade 3's to 6's (most of them are 4's and 5's) Took me about 3 years and never really focused on completing until I realized I had half by focusing on portraits, stars, a few SLers, etc.

I think the opinions of "set-complete" are just that and fair on either side of the coin. Definitely agree with the sentiments on your set/your focus and rules as wall the Magie and Doyle aspect - can't see laying out that kind of $$$ for minor variations/errors. Side Note: Something hit me inside about paying almost 3x as much for the Demmit STL as I did for a nice Green Cobb in a 3!

A lot of interest, fun, great hobby - great people. For me - I get out of it what I put into it and it's been a nice ride :-) Hope you stay with it.

[ChiefBenderForever]

I was somewhere in the 120's and said screw it and gave up, so I would advise to quit. Go through and keep the ones you like and sell the rest and buy what you like. If you change your mind down the road there will be plenty to get to start all over.