VCBC #31

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

Okay, I am finally giving up on VCBC after seeing this latest subscription auction from Jay's:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1841079678

It mentions that the current issue is #31. Sorry, I am a current subscriber and I don't have that issue - When I spoke with them last, many months ago, they told me that #30 and #31 were both ready, but they would be sending #31 out about 3 weeks after #30 to maintain a more reasonable schedule.

If they are going to advertise subscriptions, then they first need to take care of their current subscribers.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I sent Don a check for $28 for 7-8 )forget which) issues PRIORITY MAIL> It makes a difference of about a month, or sometimes not getting the thing at all.

Nice photos of the Alphas. Can't get over how much the backs look like National Game cards

Nice auction photos, in b+w and color.

Interesting article on greatest 9( and substitutes), written in--er 1929? Would you believe Jimmie Collins at 3rd?

Home Run Baker chedklist, with some nice photos (sure beats Ryne Sandberg checklist in SCD).

Don says he's "decided to have "dealers--how do they rate" only every other year. How come? It's only the most popular feature of the magazine...

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

...but it looks like the VCBC project is in it's death throes. Even if it isn't, the current problems will not encourage renewals. I'm patient, but I have already picked out my charities to contribute to. I think I would rather have the free glass-blowing tape from PBS.

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Posted By: David

About 2 monthes ago, I had exact same experience and reaction as Scott.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

In its current form VCBC is not a good magazine. When it was published by Dennis Purdy it was a good magazine. Dennis added some personality to the publication and kept it on a regular schedule. In its current form the magazine is less interesting and poorly run. It depends on charity articles and reprints. It publishes bogus dealer "good guy" awards which are simply ways of paying back advertisers, not in any way related to dealer performance as measured by the magazines own polls. I think it would be better to pull the plug on this one!

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Posted By: john(z28jd)

I placed a subscription with them and after them telling me 3 different times that they would mail it out right away i still didnt have one copy after 1 1/2 months,when i called to cancel,they said the same thing,im really sorry,we can have a copy in the mail today for you.I said you can mail out all the copies you want to me now just as long as i get all of my money back. Got the money,didnt get any copies.Horrible experience.I dont care how good the magazine is/was(which ive still never seen one) its not worth the problems they gave me

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

Issue #31 was mailed out last week. For what it's worth, I was told to check this website to keep track of their schedule: www.vcbc.com.

The website says it was shipped June 25, which means I didn't get it.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

I am now more than happy to wait patiently for my issue to arrive. If anyone else gets frustrated with this, I recommend giving them a call to discuss.

With my Type A personality, it is simple to **** me off, and just as simple to calm me down. I guess that means I will live a short, exciting life.

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Posted By: edwill

i'm not sure if everyone follows other publications in the hobby. but i think vcbc does a decent, albeit slow job. if you've read the most recent scd you find maybe 3 pages of vintage bb material. newest beckett vintage, about ten pages stretched out as far as possible. vcbc may come out every three months, but it's better to be a little late than use up my subscription with weaker issues coming out every three weeks. keep in mind it is 'vintage',so the material doesnt change too often and no new stuff comes out(ie bobble heads) so getting it monthly is unnecessary. 'death throes' is an exageration, as inappropriate as it may be.

(my first post, but i think my criticism of the critisicms will fit in with this board)
-ed

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

as you say, they don't have to publish on a strict monthly schedule, but many subscribers (me) weren't aware that it wasn't a monthly.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hey Scott
I haven't received my copy , and I'm sure TBOB, Leon and the other southerners on the board haven't gotten there copies yet either. VCBC seems to take along time to reach the South as do Scd and any other Magazines which comes out of Chicago or the midwest. I expect our copies to arrive by Saturday or Monday. We'll see Brian

PS I agree with Scott, When you purchase a subscription for 12 issues you assume they would arrive monthly.

Also welcome to the board Ed on his first Post.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

This doesn't change the fact that the current magazine publisher brings nothing to the table. He doesn't write any of the vintage related articles. He just provides a forum for them to be published without compensating the writers. Elliot, couldn't we provide an area at this site where people could publish vintage material articles? Since this web site probably contains many of VCBCs readers we could all save on the subsrciption costs and, more importantly, not suffer the delay of waiting for the magazine to be published. It would also add to the attractiveness of the site.

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Posted By: Brueso

...but after the horror stories I've read on this site concerning delivery of #30, I just can't take the risk. My collecting budget is stretched pretty tightly as it is, and I can't spend $50 on something that isn't actually going to show up, and I am not getting a certain feeling that if I DID subscribe and actually got some issues that the magazine would last thru the end of a 12 issue subscription. It sucks, but I have to be cautious in the same way I have to be cautious about an Ebay seller with a lot of negative feedback. I guess that would be a way for anyone who gets a subscription thru E-bay to respond if no issues show up: leave negative feedback.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Not to rain on the smackdown, but I know that most of you guys (and gal, Julie) are (a) articulate, (b) passionate about your collections, and (c) very, very knowledgeable. How about each of you pick a specialty and write an article on it? Leon, with that killer collection you've got, just assemble your best 10 19th century scans with descriptions and you've got an article. What about an expose on the fake backed T206's that have given us several threads? An article on PRO and its rumored ties to Kardz-R-Us? Scott, where's your article on the printers' waste you collect(just kidding? Yeah, Dennis did a great job molding VCBC and putting some real balls behind the exposes of the rotten apples in the business, but he had a lot of help from willing writers among us who contributed their expertise and time to the endeavor. I've written a lot for VCBC and I would like to do more in the future, but I can't carry the load myself.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I'm a SoCal and so have no hope of receiving my issue before the 10th. That does suck.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

he said he is currently having to go with bulk mail until his 'first class' request goes through. Bulk mail can result in delays that correspond somewhat with location. I didn't know this, so I can definitely cut him some slack in regard to delays.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

I don't see anything wrong with Don Betz simply collecting articles/photos/ads/etc. and organizing it into a nice publication. Also, I think that in order for something like this to work, with the limited number of vintage collectors out there that can subscribe, we have to add what we can.

Personally, I can't wait for Doug and Art's book to come out so that I can pick a t206 area to write an article about. I'm sure that I won't do a really professional job, but I at least want to pick an area that isn't covered in as much detail in Doug's book.

I also feel that if a writer knows his stuff is going to get published in a nice glossy journal, especially one read by most of his collecting peers, that person will do a much better job - Adam's articles in #30 are a great example.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Adam
So California? You may never see your copy.
I don't possess the gift for the gab that you and alot of the other board members have, but I am pretty good at research and plan on sharing several studies I've been conducting on T206's namely which cards appear to have been short printed or short saved. I am anxiously awaiting the New Monster to see what Doug has uncovered in this area. Thanks for your support and writing in VCBC, I enjoy your articles.
be well brian

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Posted By: Jay Miller

I agree that articles should be written. My question is why we need a middleman who slows down the process. Publish them on a web site like this one (or perhaps Mastro would like to incorporate better articles into their web site) and the articles will be quickly, widely available. If you want to save an article then download it and print it out.

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Posted By: David

Getting people to write and submit good articles on a regular (I said regular and I said good) basis is not a realistic posibility. I've done my little email newsletter for over two years now and have an audience of over 5,000. I've always welcomed articles, at turns I've requested and (gasp!) even offered payment for articles. In the over two years I think I've had about 3-4 original small articles submited, though most of them were enjoyable reads. As one reader said, people enjoy reading articles but writing them takes too much work. For most people, the idea of spending one's free time writing a good and well-researched article is on par with spending one's free time cleaning the bathroom or going to the dentist. I enjoy writing, but I guess that makes me weird.

Some time ago, I realized and accept that, with rare exeptions, my newsletter will 1) Have to be essentially self written to be original and 2) Will never make any direct money. This is not a problem for me, as the newsletter is basically a hobby, and there are no costs other than my time. I can't imagine adding that equation all the headaches of printing and shipping and complaining customers and advertisers that Don has to deal with-- but, that's why I would never do a printed magazine.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

While I always read your email newsletter, I am much more likely to read a hard-copy magazine or journal that I have by choice paid to have it arrive at my home <===(weird sentence,needs MW re-formatting). I look forward to sitting on the porch with a beer and reading the new VCBC.

Knowing that the full beauty of my writing (and accompanying photos) will likely be appreciated much more in glossy hard-copy format while in the hands of a relaxed, beer-sipping collector, I am much more likely to do the research and editing necessary to produce a high-quality article, than if I was writing for inclusion in an email newsletter.

Also, I am planning an article for submission to VCBC that will have something to do with tobacco printer scrap cards - I think that having high-quality pics of the cards will really help the article in a way that could not be achieved by email newsletter. There are many articles that this is true for. Also, there are other types of vintage-card related material that do much better in hard-copy form, such as auction reports with photos of items. While not all appreciate those types of articles, hard-copy at least allows for them. Finally, my stack of VCBC's looks great on the coffee table, while a stack of printed out newsletters would hold less appeal.

I didn't edit the above, because it is in electronic format, but if I intended to submit to VCBC I would likely have edited and also located some nice photos as support.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

I think email newsletters are much more effective for classifieds and great for providing links. I don't usually even read the classifieds in VCBC, but I always look over David's "for sale" stuff and have bought some of it.

Same for "leditors to the etter" - I can cut and paste parts of David's newsletter in my responses to his articles.

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Posted By: leon

I wrote one with a few pics for 19thcenturyonly and it came out pretty good.....I know the current owner of VCBC went through a devastating time with losing his publisher/wife to cancer (I believe).....I have to agree that the current contents offer not much new material....and the "good guys" are mostly the ones who advertise (if not ALL who advertise)....and when questioned the response was "well, since they support us (advertising $$) then we support them".....that's ok except it undermines the principle of being a "good guy"......I know there are a few sites where we could post articles but my opinion would be to put them here.....Elliot does a great job for us (in keeping out anonymous weasels and the like) so why not? best regards all...

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Posted By: David

What I said is 100% correct. If someone doesn't beleive me, they should take over VCBC and report back to me in a year. There's a difference on planning on writing an article, and publishing a magazine for an extgended time.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

either by email or in hard-copy. As a consumer of both products, I clearly have my own thoughts about both - what I read and what I don't. Any publisher that decides to ignore his public and publish his newsletter, magazine, whatever based on his own feelings about what consumers want, is welcome to do that - perhaps that publisher might cram something down my throat that I like.

BTW, I have published SMALL newsletters, both electronic and hard-copy, and I understand the benefits of both first-hand (and I was always extremely grateful when my readers gave me feedback). I guess it was something they taught me during my marketing and advertising major courses of study in college, but I'm sure the school of hard knocks can provide the same sort of info.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

As I said, I got my VCBC #31 2 days ago. For people who spend 10s, 100s, 1000s and even 10s of thousands of dough on cards, I wouldn't think 3.50 for priority mail would be too much.

No Betz doesn't have the affinity for vintage stuff that Purdy did, but i think he's doing a fairly good job putting together a magazine for people who do. As for the "1%club," I wrote him an excellent letter, focusing on three people who advertise in his magazine, got high grades, and STILL didn't get the 1% endorcement. He didn't publish it--though he has published other little things I've written. I simply give up. When you LOOK AT SCD< AND THE PEOPLE WHO GET ENDORCEMENTS FROM THEM< AND THE LARGELY GARBAGE THEY PUBLISH--is it really so hard to choose? The article on the 1894 Baltimore Alphas was fascinating! (and not without mistakes, either!).

Jay, do you really think we're going to write articles for a efanescent thing like a Forum, print them out and keep them? No way.

I do NOT see it as a black-and-white issue between Purdy and Betz, and yes, his wife recently died of cancer.

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Posted By: edwill

I am unfamiliar with jay's newsletter, but if he writes articles, why not send them to vcbc for hardcopy publication. I was under the impression that vcbc writers were paid for their efforts. either way, why not join forces to create a super vintage mag? paper copy preferred.

Also, looking over some of my back issues, vcbc has never been published monthly. in fact dennis purdy never published more than 4 or 5 in a year (1-21 from 1995-2000). I have received 31 today making it the sixth in the past 13 months or so. issues 26-31.
-ed

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Posted By: Brueso

can I get on the mailing list for your newsletter? E-mail address is brueso@aol.com

Thank you if you are able to add me.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

except for the last issue, which was a long letter from Glasscock, in glasscock's hand, which I COULD<"T READ!

As a rule, it's great stuff.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

but then I remembered the pain of trying to translate a 70-yr old Civil War veteran's recalling of the battle of Vicksburg. If it hadn't been my g-g-grandfather, I could not have done it.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

David,
I'd like to get your eletter also.
thanks bkweisner@mindspring.com

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Posted By: David

Several monthes ago, I bought on eBay a VCBC subsciption described as monthley magazine, one year subscription, 12 issues (being silly, I deduced this meant per year). The next issue was to be mailed within the week. After several monthes and a lie or two, I hadn't received my first copy and I said, as the saying goes, "**** this." It may be a wonderful, beautiful and delightful magazine, but I woulnd't know as I have never actually seen a copy.

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Posted By: David

Thanks for the interest, the new emails have been added to the newsletter lists.

Many of the past issues and articles can be viewed at:

http://www.cycleback.com/newsletter.html

As far as the Glosscock letter goes, I will translate it to printed words in the next day or two. I originally read it one afternoon on a couch, and could make out most of what he said, but I can see how it would be difficult reading from a scan. Glasscock was uneducated, born before the Civil War, wrote the letter when he was in his eighties and had a creative use of periods (he randombly sprikled them like pepper onto his sentences). But once I got past the messy handwriting, he seemed like a bright and expresive guy.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

David---Please add me to your emailing list also---curl777@aol.com.

Thanks---Jay

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Posted By: Brueso

for adding me to the list.

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Posted By: David

I added all subscription requests here and through the email. People with AOL accounts will probably not get the newsletter, as AOL prevents bulk emails, at least from me. This used to not be the case, but it appears that several monthes ago they changed the settings probably to prevent spam ... Many of the newsletters issues are eventually posted at the web page previously noted.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

Happy 4th - of course my first call this morning was from the UK!

I recommend that you keep checking the VCBC web-site (Don Betz told me it wasn't ready, but he gave it to me probably to shut me up!) - after he posts the index to issue's 1-30, you should pick out a few back-issues containing subject matter that interests you. I think those of you who have never seen this magazine will be hooked and will order all of the available back-issues, even the Betz-era issues which I think are still very nice.

"Teach a kid how to be a good loser and that's what he'll grow up to be" - Scott G's Dad

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

I started subscribing to VCBC after issue #6, when I bought issues 1-6 at a show. I was hooked. Purdy did a great job, and I was really disappointed but not too surprised when he got out.

Don Betz has not done as great a job. I am not thrilled that I receive it on a less than regular basis. I too subscribed for 12 issues over what I believed to be 12 months. I am also a lawyer and very familiar with the fact that a deal is generally a deal.

However, as has been mentioned, his wife died of cancer recently. In a strict sense, that doesn't excuse the delay. However, I'm pretty sure it would take me a while, if I ever could, to get over losing my life partner and get back on track. In a business sense, everyone who is complaining is completely correct. I haven't gotten #31 either.

However, I would like to think that slack can be cut when terrible things happen to people. If that happened to me, I'd be a wreck for years. I guess the difference is that I wouldn't even try to get a magazine out. I admire him for the effort, if not for the output. He's gotten one out and the next is on the way. In my opinion, that's far better than I, or most of you, would have done under the same circumstances. Feel free to disagree if you do.

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Posted By: Elliot

A lot of good points in this thread. It certainly is possible to set aside some space for articles, and I would be willing to do so. Of course, material to fill that space is a different issue entirely----I think David raises some very valid points.

Implicitly raised in this discussion, is whether or not we want to "formalize" the board into some sort of organization with a monthly (?) newsletter, etc. or just keep it a "gunslinging" kind of place.

To those who have asked, the poll is "coming" and something needs to be done about those pop-up ads, which recently have gotten worse (clearly an attempt to have us move to a premium level of service).

Please keep your suggestions coming.

Elliot

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

I nominate David to edit. Occasionally we have a thread that contains loads of "expert opinions" on a subject - we need someone to go in and organize the facts and opinions into a newsletter article. These could be collected and distributed to a board-member list.

"Teach a kid how to be a good loser and that's what he'll grow up to be" - Scott G's Dad

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

What are your politics?

"I don't want to fight."

What's your religion?

"I don't want to fight."

Which side of this war are you on?

"I don't want to fight."

That was my father.

whom I worshipped so much that I can still cure the hiccoughs by putting a tablespoon in a glass of water and drinking the water with my eyes on ther spoon.

Oh yes. Happy 4th of July!

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Posted By: john(z28jd)

somebody started celebrating july 4th a little early,if i didnt have to work i'd be right there with u julie....as far as the articles,i have more time on my hands then anyone,so one of these days im gonna write a good article,ill just need someone to edit otherwise it will be one big run on sentence.Plus ask anyone who knows me and they'll tell you i'm full of useless baseball info. Now if i could just put into an article that makes sense.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

by John D.

"...Mr. Corcoran, could you please put the beer down?"

"I was the GREATEST picher for one season who every lived!?! Show me some respect! I want 8 different cards - I deserve it!!"

"okay, keep the beer and put the shotgun down"

"start takin' pitchers or Ima gonna start shootin!"

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Posted By: john(z28jd)

one thing you got wrong is i want more than 8.other then that it was exactly how i remember. happy july 4th mr forrest

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Posted By: David

That's rich, TBob. I once asked you to write an article for me and you called me a cad and a bounder.

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Posted By: TBob

A "cad and a bounder"??? Maybe you talked to Blackbeard Bob the Pirate? I don't ever remember being asked to write an article by anyone other than a couple of colelctors who were interested in creating a newsletter and wanted some articles about vintage cards and values, but neither was named "David."
If you are David Rudd, I sure don't remember any such conversation, David.

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Posted By: David

Okay, since that's been cleared up, I expect your first article by Monday. Nothing on T207s, though. They're too drab. My readers expect bright and chearful. Bobble heads or bat cards.

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Posted By: TBob

After my last experiences in the Mastro, Smolin and Hunt auctions, my head feels like a bobble head.
Bat cards are puzzling. I have no clue on these things since the most recent card set I have or am working on is a 64 Topps Stand Up set, but I thought these things were scarce and limited numbers available, but I have seen a jillion Evers cards which look like big T206s with a piece of cloth purporting to be part of The Crab's unie attached. In one week in the pre-50 section there were 4 such cards (Evers) for sale! No telling how many more were available in the "new" card section on ebay...

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Posted By: David

Bob, I assumed you knew nothing about bat cards, which is why I gave you until Monday.

Naturally, I am just joking (except for the hurtful cad and bounder remarks). I've gotten used to writing my newsletter by myself, and have gotten possesive to the point that I probably don't really want other writers. I don't collect baseball cards any more and, in particular, know precious little about the gothic T207s. If you were ever to have published an article on T207s, I would enjoy reading it.

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

like my new word?

I edited a hardcopy newsletter in college and learned quite a bit (especially that I don't like editing newsletters). It was like pulling teeth getting anyone to contribute. I finally found that the easiest thing to do was to write all the articles myself, but vary the style and tone so that it seemed it wasn't me. I even wrote the "letters to the editor", which became my favorite part of the newsletter. Unfortunately, others didn't understand my humor and I lost all funding after only two issues. In fact, I was told that if I attempted to publish on my own I would be kicked out of school. But I digress - good luck David, Elliot, Don Betz, and anyone else that attempts this.