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Old 02-16-2010, 09:51 AM
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Phil Garry
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Default 1921 Koester's Bread Cards on E-Bay

All of the auctions ended last night but did any collectors see the large quantity of 1921 Koester's Bread cards listed by one seller on e-bay? The seller stated that these blank-backed cards were hand cut from a Koester's Bread sheet. I am not very familiar with this issue but that description did not really sound right to me. When I asked politely how he was able to accumulate so many rare cards from one issue, the seller replied that he's done card shows since the 1970's and that I should ask Jim Beckett & Bill Mastro. How's that for an answer? Anyway, here's a link to one of the auctions:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-Koesters-Br...item4a9e73d4c2

What do you think?
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:07 AM
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Default John R

John Rumierz is a collector from way, way back. He has the #1 table (always) at the National. Been there since day one. For some reason he and I get along very well, otherwise he is very low key. I must have spent 3 hours or more just speaking with him, one on one, at the last National. At each National I spend quite a bit of time speaking with him, having breakfast etc.... I have known him for about 10 yrs and he is one of the most knowledgable people in our hobby. When he says something, believe it. Also, if you want to really know where some skeletons are buried in the hobby, John is the one that knows. I will not say what we spoke about but if I did this board, and many in the hobby, would be ducking for cover. Trust me, much of what I see people talking about concerning the "great" people/auctioneers is simply ignorance. People just don't know and I am not going to be the one to spoil their parade. Another person that knows almost as much is my friend Josh Evans. I am sure there are about 50-60 collectors, right now, shaking their collective heads in agreement.

BTW, I should add that not everyone in the hobby likes John, Josh, me....or many others ....I am merely stating my personal opinion.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:17 AM
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Phil Garry
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Leon:

Sounds like a very reputable guy. I am still wondering about the Koester Bread cards, the Standard Catalogue makes no mention that they were hand cut from a Koester Bread poster. I am guessing that type collectors might have at least one of these cards in their collection. If so, would you say that the card stock is more like paper (similar to other American Caramels) or a thicker cardboard stock? Maybe all is well with the cards listed on e-bay and the Standard Catalogue set description just needs to be updated.....
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:27 AM
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Default Phil

Hey Phil
John is human like anyone else but when he says they are hand cut he is talking from over 40 yrs of experience. Maybe some were and some weren't, I don't know. The one I have doesn't look to be handcut. Next time I see John I will ask him about it. I think mine is in plastic so I don't know the thickness question........ best regards

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Old 02-16-2010, 11:27 AM
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Default Koesters

Lew Lipset auctioned off an uncut sheet of these a couple/few years back--his archives should still have it. I thought he claimed that the sheet was available with or as part of the newspaper prior to the World Series, but I will defer to his description. In any event, it would appear that the Koesters did exist at one time in a form that would allow them to be hand cut. The three I have owned, however, did not appear hand cut.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:46 AM
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Look in Lipset's 2006 auction (I can't remember which one) and you will see an uncut sheet of 35 players that was obviously rec'd from Koesters Bread as it has many (not all) of the "exclusive" Koesters Bread cards on it (like the Burkett). Other than these two "sheet" finds all other Koesters cards I have seen and handled are factory cut.

I am pretty close (only a few cards left to find/not find) to pinpointing the exact scope of the Koesters set and any & all potential "exclusive" Koesters cards. Keep in mind that the vast majority of Koesters cards are in every way identical to the same players W575-1 card that could have been distributed in any # of ways (not just w/ Koesters). If one wants to be 100% sure they are purchasing a Koesters they should go for one of the "exclusive" cards like Jesse Burkett, Chas. Stengel(Portrait), Ed. Brown, Alex Ferguson, Bill Cunningham, etc.

-Rhett
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:03 PM
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Here is an example of a Koesters Bread exclusive card (w/ factory cut)...
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:10 PM
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I am guessing that many other e-bayers shared my doubts when making bidding decisions on these Koester Bread cards last night as the Ross Youngs sold for $70.99. Although it was hand-cut unevenly, the card still lists in the 2010 SCBC for $1,500, $900, $500 (these figures are approximate as I don't have the book handy) in varying conditions. I would think with this set being so scarce that a HOF'er would sell for far more than it did. I might have paid 4X the selling price if I knew the card to be legitimate.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb View Post
I am guessing that many other e-bayers shared my doubts when making bidding decisions on these Koester Bread cards last night as the Ross Youngs sold for $70.99. Although it was hand-cut unevenly, the card still lists in the 2010 SCBC for $1,500, $900, $500 (these figures are approximate as I don't have the book handy) in varying conditions. I would think with this set being so scarce that a HOF'er would sell for far more than it did. I might have paid 4X the selling price if I knew the card to be legitimate.
Phil, I won 2 of the cards. I was also skeptical and emailed him. He sounded like he knew what he was talking about. The fact that he had a Burkett selling with these others made me feel like maybe they were Koester Bread cards. I thought the reason the Young(s) card went so low was that it will probably only get an Authentic grade, not sure. FYI. I spent 3 hours reading 5 years of N54 posts before bidding (back to the Hal Lewis days). I'm not sure how SGC will label them, of course, except the Burkett. As soon as I get them they are going overnight to SGC. Bottom line, after my research and email I trusted the seller. Dan
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:48 PM
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Phil Garry
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Dan:

It sounds like you put in the time and effort that I was too lazy to do and you were rewarded nicely for it! My guess is that as long as you are able to provide documentation of the Lew Lipset auction showing the cards cut from a sheet to SGC, they will probably encapsulate any/all of the cards from last night's auctions as "Authentic" only as they were all hand cut.
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