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#1
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#2
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Perhaps Brent will redefine the constitution.
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FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-24. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
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Assuming all of this about Brent is true, isn’t he knowingly conspiring with the card doctors/submitters of altered cards whereas a criminal defense attorney is in no way involved with the crime? Isn’t there a clear distinction here?
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#4
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Which leads me back to my original question. Why is it ok for a defense attorney to represent someone they know is guilty because that's "their job," but it's not ok for Brent to do his job? And don't give me an answer from some legal point of view. What is morally right, Peter? Isn't the truth that in either case, it's really just about the money? Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 05-08-2019 at 09:40 AM. |
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Actually yeah, criminal cases assigned by judges to defense counsel can't be turned down or else you could lose your license. You may want to brush up on the Sixth Amendment. And I'm not sure there is a defense attorney in the history of this country who ignores their oath and only represents people he or she believes is innocent. Perhaps on Mars it's different, David?
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
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So if a client came to you to represent them and wanted to pay your fees out of their own pocket and you knew they were guilty, would you take the case? |
#7
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
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Unless he was physically there how could he 100% know? Because the media or prosecutor says the client is guilty? On the other hand a mere look at the cards in question show something nefarious going on and what is Brent doing to stop it?
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Maybe I should have clarified. My example assumed an admission of guilt by the defendant to the attorney - attorney/client confidentiality.
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#10
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-08-2019 at 09:45 AM. |
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In either case (lawyer or Brent), that's their job. They're getting paid to perform a service that they have offered. I don't like getting a speeding ticket, but that's the cops job. I don't like getting my car towed when it's illegally parked, but that's the tow truck driver's job. I could go on, but people either get it or they don't. |
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#13
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All of my comments are based on the assumption that Brent is in no way involved in any doctoring. If he is, then shame on him and my opinion quickly changes.
I still have yet to see anybody address PSA's involvement in the card doctoring. |
#14
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My 2 cents
Ideal World
1. There is full disclosure of what was done to the card, without any pretense to give such "work" a definition. 2. The sole purpose of a slab is to opine that the card is authentic and to describe what was done to the card without concluding whether such work fits into the category of conservation or alteration, and that all numerical grades will be eliminated. Real World 1. People buy the slab, and once it is slabbed, what was done to the card becomes irrelevant. 2. IMO all T206 10's have been trimmed. 3. IMO the overwhelming majority of T206 8's and 9's have been worked on. 4. The cover card of the hobby has been trimmed and would grade an "A" if taken out of the slab and resubmitted. 5. To my knowledge, the founder of PSA has not recanted his view that because he is one of the very few people who has seen said cover card out of the slab, his opinion that the card was not trimmed is correct, regardless that the person who trimmed the card has admitted such and went to prison in part because of such admission. 6. To almost everyone in this hobby, points 2, 3, 4 and 5 are irrelevant. 7. This entire discussion of "altered" versus "conserved" as a practical matter is irrelevant because regardless what one calls it, if the card gets slabbed with a numerical grade, mission accomplished -- to most people in this hobby the end justifies the means. 8. The notion of paying multiples more for a 10 than a 9 is my definition of insanity. 9. That PWCC came into being with its business model was inevitable. 10. At some future point PWCC's business model will be looked upon with the same awe and respect that PSA's set registry now is. Conclusion 1. I feel very fortunate I got started in the hobby when cards had no value, which allows me to continue to collect as a hobby and for fun. 2. It felt good to vent. Last edited by benjulmag; 05-12-2019 at 06:17 AM. |
#15
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-08-2019 at 10:09 AM. |
#16
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Are you really trying to equate Brent/ PWCC selling a known doctored card to unknowing collectors to an attorney representing someone he thinks is guilty of a crime. I'm pretty sure in this example, PWCC could be prosecuted for Fraud. The difference here is one is criminal behavior and the other is to protect citizens from a tyrant. I can't believe i'm even responding to this post, but it was to off the wall not to. You sound like PWCC's publicist. In America, you are innocent until proven guilty...and it is embedded into our constitution. A Guide to the Sixth Amendment The Sixth Amendment, or Amendment VI of the United States Constitution is the section of the Bill of Rights that guarantees a citizen a speedy trial, a fair jury, an attorney if the accused person wants one, and the chance to confront the witnesses who is accusing the defendant of a crime, meaning he or she can see who is making accusations. The Sixth Amendment was introduced as a part of the Bill of Rights into the United States Constitution on September 5, 1789 and was voted for by 9 out of 12 states on December 15, 1791.
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-Dar.ius Hou.seal |
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#18
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The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is on the government in a criminal proceeding, even if the source of that rule is not constitutional. I think Darius' overall point stands.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-08-2019 at 10:30 AM. |
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