Genesis of an Old Judge Team Change

[oldjudge]

During the 1889 season, Goodwin changed Klusman's team designation from Milwaukee to Denver to reflect a team change. At first they just wrote the new team name in on the negative. Later they formally changed it in the name plate. Note: they never made a change to the Milwaukee name on the jersey.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Does the final version say "Denvers"?

[oldjudge]

Yes

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

That's interesting. I wonder why they changed from Denver to Denvers?

[oldjudge]

It is not unusual for the team designation to be either singular or plural.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Thanks for sharing.

[Joe_G.]

Neat trio, I like the middle one. I wonder if the 3rd version would have appeared if the "N" were correctly scribed on the negative. Someone needed more practice writing backwards.

[HRBAKER]

Good stuff as always Jay.

[barrysloate]

What's really interesting, at least to me, is that the trade of an obscure player from Milwaukee to Denver was not exactly a seismic event. The average baseball fan probably didn't even have a clue. But the design department got word of it, and had to quickly make the change for the next round of production. That they were so fastidious with something like this is really amazing. The trade could only have mattered to a fan from either Milwaukee or Denver. Why would one in Brooklyn, for example, care if Klusman's card still read "Milwaukee"? It's fascinating to think of what was going on in the production room at the time.

[z28jd]

As an interesting side note, Klusman played his first game for Denver on May 4,1889....exactly 125 years (to the day) before you posted this card change.

Two other things on this. He homered in his first game and he was a bum at the time due to a shoulder injury, so he really bounced around that season as teams were willing to give him a shot based on name alone. He wasn't traded at all, just signed and released often. Even played for another team from Denver, which is why I searched for info on him. Seeing if the name change could actually be a new team in the OJ set. He finished the year for the Denver Solis of the Colorado State League

[oldjudge]

John--interesting idea, but probably not the case. Goodwin interchanged the singular and plural of city names on a regular basis. Great research!
For those who don't know, there is no one better than John at baseball research.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

John--interesting idea, but probably not the case. Goodwin interchanged the singular and plural of city names on a regular basis. Great research!
For those who don't know, there is no one better than John at baseball research.

I didn't think so once I found out the order in which he played in the Western Association, but based on your scans, I figured if he was with Denver first, then Milwaukee, then the other Denver team would have been correct. That team also had William White, so if you find his card with Denver, it would be pretty rare aka 1 of 1

Thanks for the compliment. It also means I have a little too much time as well

[oldjudge]

LOL, I probably find that White card in a lot with a Buffalo PL card.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

LOL, I probably find that White card in a lot with a Buffalo PL card.

I still think there is a Buffalo card out there. For those that don't know, a large original collection was found in the late 80's and the players were sorted by teams, written down on paper. One of the teams listed was Buffalo, but no Buffalo card has ever been found. It's still possible, there are a couple teams that are extremely rare in the set with only one known player, so who knows.

[oldjudge]

I had never heard that story. Four of the eight PL teams have no known cards. Perhaps a Cleveland PL card will be found also. Hopefully, it is a Browning or a Delahanty.

[z28jd]

I was actually thinking it was the International League Buffalo team. They had four OJ players in 1888 and seven of them in 1889 including Deacon White as manager for a short time.

[Joe_G.]

John, is this maybe the card you are referring to? I recently picked it up and didn't think much of it since it isn't a Detroit card

[oldjudge]

Is that card a joke? It pictures McGreachery, but Goodwin has called him White. Perhaps because he was very pale. Either that, or White is real a contraction of "Why" + "T", as in "Why does he drink tea, instead of beer?"

[sreader3]

I just wanted to note that there are two differences between the middle and right Klusman cards in Jay's original post.

The first difference, which has been noted, is that the middle card includes the handwritten "DENVER" team caption with the backward "N" whereas the right card includes the typed "Denvers" team caption in script.

But a second difference is that in the middle card the "MILWAUKEE" team name remains clear on Klusman's uniform whereas in the right card an imperfect attempt has been made to redact this team name with a solid black block overlay.

Here are a few other Denver OJs that exhibit the same phenomenon. The ones in the SGC holders are "Type 3s" (final version: Denvers in typed script, Milwaukee redacted) whereas the one in the PSA holder is a "Type 2" (interim version: handwritten DENVER with backwards N, Milwaukee remains clear).

[oldjudge]

Great observation Scot. BTW, according to the 1890 Reach guide, Klusman played for three teams in the WA, first Milwaukee, then Des Moines, and then finally Denver. It makes sense that Milwaukee was the first since that was the uniform that he was photographed in. What this also says is that, unless Goodwin missed or ignored the Des Moines move, that there may be a Des Moines card lurking out there. It also raises the slim possibility that the handwritten Denver refers to the WA team and the typeset Denvers to the Solis. However, I would doubt that this is the case.

[sreader3]

Thanks Jay. And I would be remiss if I didn't point out that you were the one who sold the above SGC 84 Klusman Type 3 to me at a reasonable price a few years back when I was starting a Denvers collection.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Thanks Jay. And I would be remiss if I didn't point out that you were the one who sold the above SGC 84 Klusman Type 3 to me at a reasonable price a few years back when I was starting a Denvers collection.

That is a great looking card.

[sreader3]

Thanks Leon.

A final note is that the Klusman Denvers that was recently sold on the BST, see

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=190036

is a Type 2. The differences with the Type 3 that I acquired from Jay are easily noted and consistent with the above discussion.