Deerfoot of the Diamond

[davidb]

I watched a recent ESPN 30 for 30 Shorts about the life of Louis Sockalexis and being a former Mainer I was fascinated by his story. I purchased a book on Amazon about his life and was in Maine this past month and the wife and I visited his grave site in Old Town, Maine. Am I correct that the 1898 Cameo Pepsin pin is the only rendition of a card/pin available of Sockalexis?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by davidb

I watched a recent ESPN 30 for 30 Shorts about the life of Louis Sockalexis and being a former Mainer I was fascinated by his story. I purchased a book on Amazon about his life and was in Maine this past month and the wife and I visited his grave site in Old Town, Maine. Am I correct that the 1898 Cameo Pepsin pin is the only rendition of a card/pin available of Sockalexis?

I believe you're right about the pins being it.

So what did you think and take away from his story?

[Peter_Spaeth]

That's it for vintage pieces, pretty sure.

[rhettyeakley]

There are 2 different pins made of Sockalexis. The Cameo Pepsin style pin and another picturing him in a suit. Also in 1912 there was a postcard of an older Sockalexis made by an Old Town, ME producer (A.F. Orr).

Less commonly known is a team postcard, a group image postcard, and a postcard of Sockalexis alone made while a member of the Bangor Team in 1907.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That's it for vintage pieces, pretty sure.

For the major leagues, yes. Pretty sure anything else is minors, or maybe semi-pro.

[rhettyeakley]

The two pins both date to the time with Cleveland.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

The two pins both date to the time with Cleveland.

How rare are they?

[rhettyeakley]

Few examples known. Rhys owns both pins along with all other items that I described.

[Vintagedeputy]

I picked up this postcard about a year ago.

[davidb]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for sharing your postcard. There is much debate with no definitive result about whether the Cleveland ball club changed the name to Indians in 1915 to honor Sockalexis. His big league glory days were quite limited to two seasons and the bottle seemed to have derailed future stardom but what a grand story.

[Baseball Rarities]

Here is an example of the 1912 postcard that Rhett referred to.

[davidb]

Wow.. fantastic... Thanks. I doubt there are many of these in PSA or SGC inventory batch. Also... you would think the photographer would point out to Louis that his right collar should be adjusted before he snaps photo.

[G1911]

I know it isn't vintage, but Topps included him in the 2003 Topps 205 set. I am sure he is in some sort of TCMA/Fritsch/oddball set from the 70's to today, but I am pretty sure this his only mainstream card in modernity. Probably worthless for the base card, but I like a lot of the throwbacks like this and it's cool they included him.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by davidb

Hi Jim,

Thanks for sharing your postcard. There is much debate with no definitive result about whether the Cleveland ball club changed the name to Indians in 1915 to honor Sockalexis. His big league glory days were quite limited to two seasons and the bottle seemed to have derailed future stardom but what a grand story.

Thank you. His story is such a sad one. Such promise wasted.

I almost bypassed this postcard while looking through hundreds of sports postcards in an antique store. I’m guessing it’s from the early 1920’s.

[davidb]

Hundreds of sports postcards in an antique store... now there's a 21st century rarity! Thanks again for sharing.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by davidb

Hi Jim,

Thanks for sharing your postcard. There is much debate with no definitive result about whether the Cleveland ball club changed the name to Indians in 1915 to honor Sockalexis. His big league glory days were quite limited to two seasons and the bottle seemed to have derailed future stardom but what a grand story.

Sockalexis may have played a part in the Indians being named as such, because of his then somewhat recent death a year or so before the Naps name was changed, and his name being brought up by newspaper reporters looking for stories to stir public interest and sell papers. But it is becoming more commonly thought by informed people that the true inspiration for the name Indians was to piggyback onto the then recent success the 1914 Boston Braves had had in their somewhat miraculous season, and subsequent WS victory. What they did in that 1914 season has to my knowledge never been equaled in MLB history. You can look it up.

Of course, Cleveland couldn't take the Braves name since Boston already had it, but Indians was a close substitute, and also went along with the historical background and presence of Native Americans in Northeast Ohio. Lake Erie was named for the Erie tribe that once lived on its shores, and the Cleveland area itself was once populated by members of the Wyandot tribe. Also, when Sockalexis was playing for the Cleveland Spiders, the team was often referred to as the Indians because of his presence on it, but it was by no means meant as a compliment. Back then the term "indian" was considered somewhat derogatory, and I don't believe that thinking had changed much, if it all, from 1897 to 1915. But by reporters mentioning Sockalexis in regard to the name "Indians", it added flavor and color to the story, and probably sounded a whole lot better than trying to sell the fans on saying we're going to try and copycat off another team's name and hopefully have some of their recent success rub off on us. And in all likelihood helped sell more newspapers as well.

The biggest factor and evidence against naming the Indians to honor Sockalexis is Sockalexis himself and his playing career in Cleveland from 1897 to 1899. Though he initially started off the first 2-3 months of his career in Cleveland looking like a sure-fire HOFer, between injury, alcoholism, and other various issues, the three-year contract he signed with the Spiders in 1897 turned into a major league career of just 94 games, not even.....one.....full.....season! And then he was unceremoniously cut and dropped in the midst of the 1899 season by a Spiders team that ended that year with a record of 20-134, arguably the worst team in MLB history, and he couldn't even play for them, they thought him so bad. You can look this stuff up on BaseballReference and other sites, and I won't get into all the other issues he supposedly had during his Cleveland career.

But given all this historical information, please explain to me with any logical argument or common sense why just 16 or so odd years later a team and an entire city would then decide to supposedly rename their baseball team primarily to HONOR him for his earlier career and contributions to the city and team. And this comes immediately after the team and city just ended 14 years honoring their former manager, HOFer, and one of baseball's all-time greats, Napoleon LaJoie, by calling the team the Naps. I've heard of doing downgrades before, but if that name change was to primarily honor Sockalexis and his career and contributions to Cleveland and the team, I nominate that as one of the biggest (and worst) downgrades of all time.

But yes, he did end up having a tragic life. Based on his athletic ability, he possibly could have been more like Jim Thorpe, before there was a Jim Thorpe. It is sad we never got to see what he could have done in baseball, based on the initial start to his career with the Spiders.

[davidb]

Bob C , thanks for your response and accept your "informed people" assessment. Stories like Louis Sockalexis from late 20th century baseball continue to fascinate and I appreciate historians like you that provide insight otherwise unknown to us mediocre baseball historians.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by davidb

Bob C , thanks for your response and accept your "informed people" assessment. Stories like Louis Sockalexis from late 20th century baseball continue to fascinate and I appreciate historians like you that provide insight otherwise unknown to us mediocre baseball historians.

I'm no historian, just been a Clevelander all my life, so kind of understand the people, culture, and thinking. And by "informed people" I'm referring to those that haven't just heard the common, mainstream stories, and then simply assumed they're true and that the Indians were named for Sockalexis. I'm referring to those who dig a little deeper to read and learn more about the times and history, and Sockalexis' career and life in general. When you read and discover more about the issues and things plaguing him, and different things that he supposedly did or that occurred, it helps to better adjust and understand the context around him and his place in Cleveland history.

Now Sockalexis did figure into the naming of the Indians back in 1915, but probably more because the team was at one time referred to by some as the Indians when he was playing for the Spiders. Oddly, the stories are that the Indians name was ultimately picked by the team's ownership, along with input and help from four major newspapers Cleveland had back then. Speculation in some areas was that using Sockalexis made for better print than just saying we're copying off the Boston Braves.

Plus, the fact some people had referred to a Cleveland team as the Indians in the past likely stuck in some peoples minds as well. Oftentimes when looking to rename and change things, people will often look to the past. No surprise that before settling on the Guardians, some of the more popular names bandied about locally included the Spiders, the Blues, and the Buckeyes. All three are the names of former ML baseball teams playing in Cleveland.

There is no definitive proof of the specific, primary reason they named the team the Indians, but in looking at it strictly from a Cleveland team and fan standpoint, it makes absolutely no sense to think they did so primarily to honor Sockalexis. Now if you're up around Maine or in an area the Penobscot tribe is prominent in, that is an entirely different story. Otherwise, Sockalexis' only connection to the Cleveland city and team was his very short, and very forgettable, playing career with the Spiders. And based on how it turned out, from a strictly Cleveland perspective, what exactly would they be honoring him for?

[rhettyeakley]

I am not going to get into a debate about whether or not the team name is what it is for Sockalexis or not, that will not come to a settled conclusion in this thread.

That being said, sometimes there are players that just resonate with a city or a fanbase unlike other players and it may or may not make sense based only upon statistics or retroactively looking back at boxscores. Regardless of whether it seems logical for Sockalexis to be as big of a deal today or not the fact is that in 1897/1898 there was massive interest in Sockalexis and his rise to fame in the city of Cleveland. The fact that he was Native American likely played a huge role in his “novelty” especially in 19th Century America with its massive racial issues.

A somewhat more recent example of a player that captured a city and their fanbase that may make it a little easier to understand how Sockalexis was able to do the same with Cleveland in 1897/1898 is Mark Fidrych in Detroit. Fidrych’s career in Detroit was short…his career was essentially over after 41 games (31 as a dominant starter in 1976 and a few games in 1977 before an injury derailed his career.) looking back at his career retroactively one might never understand how this player could have been as captivating as he was in 1976/1977… but he was. People loved him and the thought of “what could have been” with Fidrych still resonates with people 45 years later. Sockalexis was “that” type of player to those that saw him play in Cleveland. It wouldn’t be crazy to imagine 2 decades later the new Cleveland team waxing nostalgic to their (I hate to say it but) novelty of 1897/98 and deciding they wanted to remember those exciting days

It would be like a new Detroit team in the 1980-90’s deciding to call themselves the Detroit Birds! (After Fidrych) which now that I think about it after having driven in Detroit a few times I am pretty sure I have been given a few “Detroit Birds” in my time!