The next great investment?

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Posted By: Bryan

I was asked by a friend of mine last night what I thought was a great investment for the furture when it came to vintage baseball cards. He is huge card collector but not in vintage cards and wants to start going in that route. His question was what card or set will be a great investment to buy or to complete a set in? My answer was that I thought that T206 cards will always have selling power but I'm curious to know what everyone else thinks. Will it be Ramlys? 1952 Topps? T205s? Or will be any Ty Cobb cards? I'm curious to see what everyone says about this.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

A high grade Babe Ruth strip card type set.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

T206 cards are kind of blue-chippy. They are always in demand but are not going to fly financially because they are so well established.

I don't think there is a particularly attractive specific investment in pre WWI vintage baseball cards. The 19th century stuff is already flying, as are T and E cards. I would personally bet on the 1920's E sets; they are tough and not all that expensive.

You really cannot go wrong with HOFers from major sets. The key is finding cards in decent condition for good prices, as in all investments. I'd also look at contrary investments: 1950's and 1950's HOFers in high end condition. These cards are down considerably. Remember, if pure ROI is the goal, it is buy low, sell high, not buy high and hope to sell higher. Finally, I would take a look at big names in many of the regional sets from the 1950's and 1960's. They are very tough to find and IMHO undervalued considerably.

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

The only pre 1920 set that I would say is still "cheap" is the M101-4/M101-5 Sporting News sets (outside of the Babe Ruth rookie of course).

If you are a fan of graded cards, this is one set where you can still pick up higher grade commons for less than $100. I don't think that can last too long, so I'd say that is one set that you can beat the "$800 for a PSA 8 1933 Goudey common" crowd to.

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Posted By: Jason

But it annoys me when people ask which set is the next great investment... I just don't view cards that way.

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Posted By: Bryan

I'm looking for opinions. I am always curious to hear what others collect and why. One look at my collection and you will know that I do not collect for investment reasons as because most of my cards are in poor condition.

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Posted By: Joe P.

The Stock Market side of the Hobby.

Definition:
Main Entry: [2]hobby
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural hobbies
Etymology: short for hobbyhorse
Date: 1816
: a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation

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Posted By: hankron

I buy a lot of undervalued things, which doesn't mean they will ever become over valued.

I buy and sell and watch a fair amount, and know what what things sell for. I will sometimes see an item, or a type of item, that I think is unnoticed and unnapreceated and that I like ... I bought the original Polaroids that were used as lighting tests for the making of a calendar. At the auction, I don't think anyone thought twice about them, but they caught my eye so I bought them all from the seller. Polaroids are inherently unique and self-authenticating (on the spot, self developing), so it's like they come with their own LOA. I got a copy of the calendar and discovered that the photograher was well known. I know they're rare and unusual, because I haven't found similar on eBay since ... Whether or not they will ever be lauded I don't know, but I got them cheap and think they're super cool.




So, I just closely follow the market in the area that interests me. With experience, you inevitably find stuff that people are overpaying for and quality stuff people for some reason ignore.

My mom is so cheap, that I told my dad that if she ever bought a forgery it still would be a good buy.

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Posted By: jamie

any item in pristine or graded high will continue to rise.

ive watched the price of many mid-low level vintage plunge with the advent of grading companies and the accessibility of the net. what will always be a scarce commodity and what will always be in demand are these high grade items

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Posted By: hankron

that I think in any area, from baseball cards to lunch boxes to Ming vases, the more knowledgeable the collector the better able he is to identify over and underestimated things. By knowledge, I don't just mean current prices and hobby headlines (which are important), but rarity, history, authenticty, how something is made and a keen understanding of the material. A beginner entering into the market to invest is at an inherent disadvantage.

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Posted By: Bryan

I very much agree with you. This is one thing that I told my friend to do. Be sure to study up on no matter what you want to buy.

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Posted By: ramram

The next great investment?? - Sell your ebay stock!!

I think ebay brought a lot of new collectors into the market over the last few years. I think it initially brought prices down because of the influx of material but I think the new collectors it brought in more than made up for it. Consequently, I think auction houses took a little hit for a while but I think they have made a great rebound because of all the fake items on ebay. Ebay is going to feel a hit soon, maybe even a free-fall from their lack of security. The new collectors as well as the old are now turning back to the auction houses and already have made numbers go through the roof on some auction house offerings.

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Posted By: Bryan

I agree with this one also. I have started looking elsewhere for cards. I do not spend nearly as much time on ebay like I did a year ago looking for vintage cards. But I do think that some auction houses are making a ton of money when it comes to fees that I just simply won't pay. Maybe you could call them a finders fee almost but I think that some have gone too far with seller fees and everything other fee that they can find. But I guess they have to make money as well.

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Posted By: Anonymous

and your time frame is long term, you need to look at what recent generations have loved as kids and will want to acquire as affluent adults. Mint, sealed classic Nintendo games, Ninja Turtle or Star Wars toys come to mind. Maybe even those stupid Beanie Babies. Buy them now, put them in a box and let your grandchildren become famous some day.

As far as baseball cards go, top condition vintage material has always been a good investment. When prices are quoted lower, no one sells. Prices plateau at higher levels when new collectors enter the market, inducing older collectors to cash in. The only risk is that kids today are not as infatuated with the game as our generation was. Will the 50 year old of 2050 know or care about Cap Anson and King Kelly?
Will he pay a premium for a Bid McPhee?

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Posted By: ramram

Do you actually think football or basketball cards may ever take off? What about the infant...racing cards? How about golf cards? We laugh at some of these but our laugh may be someone elses gain some day.

Rob M.

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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

Hello Bryan,

I'd say that the 1913/1914 Tom Barker and National Game cards of Hall of Famer's are a great buy and excellent investment. Cards of Young, Johnson, and Mathewson in excellent or better condition can be found for less than $200-- this won't last long.

I also believe t202's are currently undervalued.

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Posted By: johnny

As far as investment I would never advise anyone to spend cash on cardboard but if they want guarentees I would say anything pre war is always good- 50-60s' try for excellent or better and 1970-present nr-mt- get cards from all era's from as old as possible to present- it is fun to go from 100 years ago to today in a simple line of cards- for me they are little paintings dating history right up to tonight when my twins play the yankees ( red sox fan at heart) my guess is people who get cards for investment stick to hall of famers but I dont know- I just finished a 59 fleer Ted Williams set and would definately recommend that for entertainment and investment exp when its n-mt ( I will be honest- I do not have the 'Ted Signs' yet so the reprint will have to complete my set for now-

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Rob (ramram),

You're right, who knows what'll appreciate in the future. Maybe it's political material, maybe it's the DNA (nail clippings, hair, etc) of sports stars or screen stars, maybe it's a rare reprint set of an obscure issue of baseball cards. I stopped speculating on card prices a long time ago.

In 1985 I purchased (8) 1984 Topps football wax cases for about $100 a case. Everyone I knew (that collected cards) thought I was crazy. I don't have any of the wax left but the ROI in three years on the stuff was great (16+:1). I speculated on that stuff and got lucky. I don't buy new material anymore, I haven't for years because I don't enjoy it. Back then it was a vehicle to make some spare change to put back into the hobby.

I don't see anything wrong with trying to speculate on cards but just remember if it all comes crashing down on you it wont be so bad if you like the stuff that you speculated on. Sure it may be painful looking at a card for which you paid $2,000+ (and dropped to $200 in price), but as long as you like it, who cares?

When I buy old stuff it's because I like it, not because I think it's going to be worth a lot of money in the future. Sad but true part is that I'll probably die with this old stuff so there would be no ROI for me. Who ever inherits the stuff will probably have no idea what it's worth - you'll probably see it all on ebay some day.

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Posted By: Julie

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Posted By: 823dek

are...like anything else, you either have to be at the right place at the right time or have enough to invest.

Stay w/ what you can afford

Enjoy the hobby, make purchases that you can understand...

AND PATIENCE!!!!

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Posted By: ramram

When I started collecting, I only purchased the items that I loved collecting. I never thought I'd part with them. Then, the "high" became shorter and shorter and I needed more money to buy the "new" items I desired. To get the "high" it required buying items rarer than the previous item and, obviously, more expensive. To do this I had to sell my older items to bring in some more "hobby" money. Luckily, if you buy smart in this hobby, it's a self perpetuating business. There are not many hobbies out there that allow you to enjoy your collecting AND make money at the same time. So don't dis the investor OR the collector. It is very possible to be both.

By the way, I'd imagine I'm not the only won who uses this argument with their spouse. Ususally quites them down quickly when they see the "green".

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Posted By: johnny

This hobby is great in that it allows you to enjoy what you buy and also retain a rainy day value. It really is a win win situation that can be passed down- traded or cashed in- any way you slice it up it's all good -

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Posted By: Julie

.......

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Posted By: warshawlaw

High grade 1970-1973 cards. They have all the factors going in their favor:

1. Multiple series issues with difficult high and semi high runs, but not impossible for a collector to realistically complete without breaking the bank
2. Very tough to find in top condition (gray and black bordered 1970-71 cards, centered 1972 cards, centered and unblemished 1973 cards)
3. Great player selection in the sets. Lots of major HOFers, including last cards of Mays and Clemente, early cards of Ryan, Schmidt, Bench, etc.
4. Demographics: kids who collected these cards at the time of issue are creeping into their 40's now, which is typically a time of increased spending power and increased nostalgia.

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Posted By: Brad Freeman

The best investments are the cards I am going to buy within the next 3 weeks. Please check back here in 21 days and I shall be quite pleased to share my insights.

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Posted By: hankron

Having thought about it, I've decided that I have no clue what will turn out to be a great investment for the next 10 or 20 years-- whether it's baseball cards or other.

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Posted By: Julie

David Rudd, the hand holding the small photo of the gorgeous girl looks like it took a bath, or washed the dishes, or the dog, or the car, or something, within the last half an hour. Slight wrinkles at the tips of the fingers...

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Posted By: Wesley

There is no question in my mind that E90-107 cards will depreciate in the years to come.

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Posted By: hankron

Julie, the hand is mine. I don't recall the history of the 'photo shoot' other than the background is the cushion from a couch in my living room.

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Posted By: ramram

Holding a picture of a scantly clad model in one hand...don't know what you were doing with the other hand - uhhh...I don't think any of us want to know.

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Posted By: ramram

I think I would have edited that comment too!!

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Posted By: hankron

The other hand was holding the digital camera. And, in case there are any further theories, I have only two hands like everyone else.

I appreceate the joke, but I've found that many people don't appreceate the difference between fashion photos and dorm room Bud Light posters. That perhaps 70 percent of the Jean Shrimpton and Gia Carangi collectors are heterosexual women would show there's something other than sex involved (Shrimpton and Carangi are about the two most popular vintage fashion models amongst collectors). Heck, my 65 year old mom thought one of my female in pool photos was so beautiful, I gave it to her as a present and it hangs in my retired parent's house. My mom read my little guide to collecting fashion photos, illustrated with pictures of beautiful women. Afterwards, she told me, "Halfway through, I realized it was about art."

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Posted By: hankron

This is the photo my mom took a fancy to (the image definitely has a sexual element)

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Posted By: Julie

her lips, falling from above, or what?

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Posted By: tbob

that the caramel cards are waaay overvalued. In order to help y'all out, please immediately ship your E94s and E98s to me and I will most willing to give you a decent price on these overrated and overpriced pieces of carboard

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Posted By: hankron

Holding a flower petal in her teeth I guess. When my dad saw it, he said, "I don't understand it." I said, "I don't think you're supposed to."

The model is Janice Dickinson. The photo was shot in the evening in an ocean view pool in Mustique, a private island in the West Indies. She is wearing a bright red one piece bathing suit. The image appeared in 1983 Bizarre Italia (Italian Harper's Bazarre). I know the photographer and bought it directly from him.

Interesting that I know more about this photo, that my own.

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Ok, the larger pinkish colored flower is a hibiscus. What type of flower are the other ones? Nice picture. Are her stats on the back or is this a blank back photo?

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Posted By: Dave

My wife will really affirm my question: Is this really investing?

I don't really expect to sell most of my collection; the stuff I buy is to hold, not for appreciation. I suppose that it will have value at some point. My cards may keep me from eating cat food, or become frivilous at some point. But, if I want an investment, I call my stock broker. Look at what he's done for me the last 4 years.

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Posted By: Anonymous

He worked Vogue and magazines like that (He photographed nearly every famous fashion model, including, yes, Jean Shrimpton). He told me that on-location shooting sessions like that were physically demanding for the photographer and he had to retire when he got arthritus. That issue had never crossed my mind before.

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Posted By: hankron

Talking about my fashion photos makes me a lot happier than talking about those Old Judge Proofs. Definitely better for my health.

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Posted By: Mark

With the accomlishment of Ichiro, and the influx of so many Japanese players, I wonder if vintage Japanese baseball cards won't go up in value. With Barry chasing Hank's record, perhaps people will want a rookie card of the guy who hit 868 dingers (which card is rarer and cheaper than U.S. HOFer rookie cards of that era).

I also think that basketball and football cards are undervalued (is baseball even the most popular sport in the U.S. today?).

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Posted By: Joe P.

Is this a thread about Investments or Photography?

Can anyone say Highjacker?

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Posted By: hankron

Okay then Joe, my recommendation are Police Gazzette Premiums of big stars like Cobb and Mathewson. Sharp poster-like items, not a ton around and they don't get much attention on the market (many collects aren't sure what they are). Whether or no they will zoom in price I don't know, but if you can get a Christy or Walter Johnson for cheap, they're nice items.

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Posted By: hankron

Second pick is quality wire photos at low prices ... The prices fluxuate widely on wire service and newspaper photos (they aren't cataloged like baseball cards), and a collector can find lower than expected prices on quality original photos of Red Grange or Bronco Nagurski or Willie Mays or Walter Johnson or even your favorite college football team (The Cobbs and Joe Jacksons of the world are tough to get a low prices) ... I'm not saying one should invest in wirephotos as a whole, but there are always great deals to be found.


*** Super easy and super effective ways for the 'investor' or just plain collector to identify vintage wire and news serivce photos in eBay auctions.

1) Stamps of ..............removed. What is the significance of these stamps? The companies either went out of business or changed their name in the 1950s or earlier. This means the presence of any of these out of date stamps proves the photo is vintage. On eBay, if you see a Joe Jackson in Black Sox uniform with an International News Photo stamp on back, you know it's the real deal. If you see a '1951 Rookie Year' Mickey Mantle with an ACME stamp, you know it's vintage.

2) .......removed ........ag. These show the photo is old....

3) ........ on back.

4) .......hologram on back. This hologram indicates .............

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

'R' premiums
Pins (like P2's, Cracker Jack, et al....)
Other tobacco premiums like silks, Helmar Stamps, etc.

At least they are reasonably priced in comparison to their tobacco card cousins........try an EXMT/NRMT P2 Cobb pin versus an EXMT/NRMT T205/T206 Cobb......although.....PSA is now working to destroy that leverage by grading pins.

I agree with people the 1920's sets are still undervalued.

I think another are is deceased hall of famer single signed balls from guys that died 2-10 years ago......the Catfish Hunters, Willie Stargells, etc have gone WAY up compared to a year or two before their death.....they regularly sell in the $75-$100 range now and you could have gotten dozens of them a few years back for $15-$20. A little morbid on the collecting but if you're strictly a speculator, they will hold up. Also guys like Bill Dickey/Terry, Gehringer, Judy Johnson, etc.....

Tickets seem to be surging along with personal checks from Hall of Famers (another favorite of mine.....). Those prices seem to be moving up in the bigger names like Ruth, Wagner, Cobb, etc. I bet if you checked, they've doubled in last 2-3 years in value (at least 50-75% increase).

It also seems like N,T and 1930's Non-sports are enjoying nice increases--especially with the SGC/PSA grading.....

JMO.........

p.s. also GOLD COINS.......about 2 years late on them though....
p.p.s. after today, maybe oil futures.........

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Posted By: Joe P.

It's the Photographic Dow Jones thread.

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Posted By: Jeremy B

How about 1986 Sportflics? Novel idea!!! I know someone that's stockpiling these things - that's a nicer way of sayin he can't sell'em at the card shows. Funny thing he always tries to though.

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Posted By: Julie

Nearly all of them...

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Posted By: Pcelli60

Mid to high grade cards of the late 60's to mid 70's. Topps inserts of the 50's and 60's to the early 70's..But you guys and gals out there have got to inform me of any pre war thats left untouched by any signifigant number of todays collectors..