Jackson, Gandil, Rose............Bonds? Mcgwire? Clemens?

[jboosted92]

We can never predict the future...but i want to ask collectors and members of there thoughts on the future of "notorius" ball players....

Granted, what Joe Jackson, Gandil, and Pete Rose were guilty of, were different than those of Bonds, McGwire and Clemens, but could in 10-20 years, the "collectors" of memorabilia, view them in a "notoriety" light, much like famous criminals.... Does OJ's stuff increase in value?

Would love to hear feedback!

[Bosox Blair]

I think your question blurs an important issue by the inclusion of Gandil - the star power of the player in question.

Gandil's cards are undoubtedly worth more than they should be (given his playing talent) by virtue of his notoriety.

The others were all star players with Hall-of-Fame talent.

So the question is whether their cards are worth more than they otherwise would have been, given their achievements. OJ's are definitely not (in fact, they went down in value). I think Rose's card values are not inflated by his infractions either. Shoeless Joe - yes, I think his card values are inflated by the Black Sox involvement.

The new crop you mention? Really tough to say. All those cards took a nose dive in value because of mass overproduction - even before the steroid scandal hit.

Cheers,
Blair

[Note: I'm talking card values b/c I don't really know about other memorabilia!]

[Robextend]

I would say steroid era guys will never carry the kind of novelty value that the Black Sox (especially Joe Jackson) carry. There are far too many players associated with steroids for it to be "special".

I could be wrong, but i think Pete Rose cards would carry the same value regardless of his antics.

[fkw]

like others said, too many did PEDs to make it special...

But IMO, 5 should have been first ballet HOFers...... and still should be in Hall for their performance on the field.

Gandil is Not a HOFer in any way.

PEDs guys will suffer value wise in long run.

PS.
OJ killed 2 people, thats not even in the same league, thats a turn off to me

[teetwoohsix]

I don't think in 10-20 years there will be much more of a difference than right now,but maybe 90-100 years?

Clayton

[mintacular]

I thought the episode of Pawn Stars (where Rick & co.) turn down an offer to buy some '67 Roses that they deemed "fake" (still unsure about this) reveal how unaware they are about his sustained popularity. Rick's son "Big Hoss" mentions and I'm paraphrasing (big-time): "Well he (Rose) could be worth quite a bit if it weren't for, you know (referring to gambling)..." Little does he realize that the $ of Rose cards have been little hurt, if not gone up, as a result of the betting scandal. In short his shortcomings did not make him the greatest hitter of all-time a better player during his playing career, a claim Bonds et al. cannot make...

[quinnsryche]

Bonds, McGwire and Clemens will always be disliked now because they stole something from the game and really paid no price.
Rose's gambling was as a manager (not player) and only for his team, never against (supposedly). So although he's a complete jackass personality-wise, people still hold him in high regard for his accomplishments as a player. Jackson will always be looked at with compassion because he was a dope who got "suckered".
Gandil is a popular figure only to those trying to collect all the "8 Men Out" cards. I don't know anyone who collects only Gandil because he was a great player or nice guy.
Those 3 and others paid their debt with banishment from the game and will always be looked at sympethetically. The steroid freaks will be forever despised because they came in, cheated, stole records, made millions of dollars, gave us all the finger and left with no punishment and continue to lie about it.
Guys like Andy Petitte are still well liked because he admitted he was wrong and at least seemed to genuinely want to be forgiven.
Just my opinion.

[ScottFandango]

common misunderstanding:

if you ONLY BET FOR YOUR TEAM, then essentially, on the Days HE DIDNT BET his team to WIN, was ESSENTIALLY a bet against them (leave your starter in way too long. dont try as hard as when you have money on them)

so by Rose, and people, saying he ONLY BET FOR HIS TEAM TO WIN, HOLDS NO WATER!!

What Rose did was inexcusable and i am amazed that his cards have ANY VALUE!

[glynparson]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ry_game-1.html

Its my understanding Rose bet on the reds everyday.

[drc]

I don't like Rose as a person, but the difference between he and the modern examples is his playing numbers are genuine while the modern guys' numbers are fake (embellished, artificially enhanced, whatever you want to say). Rose gambled etc, but even his biggest detractors will say his on the field performance was genuine.

[M's_Fan]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

common misunderstanding:

if you ONLY BET FOR YOUR TEAM, then essentially, on the Days HE DIDNT BET his team to WIN, was ESSENTIALLY a bet against them (leave your starter in way too long. dont try as hard as when you have money on them)

so by Rose, and people, saying he ONLY BET FOR HIS TEAM TO WIN, HOLDS NO WATER!!

What Rose did was inexcusable and i am amazed that his cards have ANY VALUE!

Maybe I'm a dim bulb, but I don't understand this. Try again, less capitals, more explanation.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by drc

I don't like Rose as a person, but the difference between he and the modern examples is his playing numbers are genuine while the modern guys' numbers are fake (embellished, artificially enhanced, whatever you want to say). Rose gambled etc, but even his biggest detractors will say his on the field performance was genuine.

really?

i always thought he was spearheading the amphetyamines (sp?) explosion....

grabbed a handful and he played like a DEMON

[glchen]

I don't think amphetamines (sp?), greenies, etc, are in the same class as PEDs. I know people will disagree but I always thought that was like drinking a lot of coffee to stay awake. Other than staying alert, I don't know how those really helped you, and I think that's the point. PEDs increase power potential, which is a completely different. Basically, I guess I'm saying a player can drink coffee to legally stay more alert. However, what can a player ingest to legally gain more power? Nothing that I'm aware of.

[ChiefBenderForever]

They give you an edge, keep you awake and alert but for hyperspace it's all cocaine like the 86 Mets, but as we all know,what goes up must come down................