HOF stiffs Vintage Players etc.

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Posted By: Brian Hodes 

Well that long list of 200 Veteran HOF candidates was narrowed down to nominees for a shorter list of the electorate to consider and almost all of the Vintage Players (those that starred before WWII) were left out including strong candidates like Dahlen, Carruthers and Mullane.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news/ap/20021212/ap-halloffame-veteranscommittee.html

The only vintage player who joined the baby boomer favs was Carl Mays, a very good Pitcher who threw one pitch to Ray Chapman that forever mars his excellent career.

By the way this decision has NO BEARING on the candidacies of Negro League greats.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I always thought Dick Williams was the best manager I ever saw.

Geez, I really think Caruthers...

See, I think Curt Flood belongs in because of his baseball-related activities off the field, and that's why I think Dummy Hoy belongs in. There's almost incontrovertable proof that he invented the hand singles that are a part of every baseball game played today.

Rose next year? Hope so. (The bastard!)

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

I would like to know what standards they used in picking these guys because they obviously didnt look at stats...total stupidity...must be too hard to open an encyclopedia,so they picked the guys they remembered

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Posted By: runscott

this is just another reason why I have no respect for the HOF.

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Posted By: Bob

Deserving players from the turn of the century will never get in now. Vada Pinson? Ted Klu? Richie Allen? Give me a frigging break...

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I see maybe two or three guys, tops, who belong in the HOF as players: Ferrell, Hodges, Munson

A few more are reasonable candidates given the guys already in there: Mays, Minoso, Santo, maybe Marion (SS is a weak field after Honus and Banks are taken out of there).

The following also are reasonable candidates for different reasons than just being players: Flood (as a contributor), Torre (as mgr).

The rest are weak, except for Lolich and Marshall, who are jokes.

The guys who are missing, we could fill a small book. My favorite MIA, Lefty O'Doul. .349 average over 11 seasons, great contributions to the sport (his Japanese experience--heck, he named the Giants--and PCL career).

What are these shmoes thinking??

I am depressed.

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

When I was growing up in the New York suburbs in the late 1960's I wanted to be Roger Maris (or Clete Boyer) when all my friends wanted to be Mickey Mantle, but that doesn't mean Maris deserves to be elected to the Hall of Fame, for God's sake!

Of all the names on the long list, how did they overlook the more obvious candidates for the ones they settled on? Of all the names on the short list, the only one I feel totally comfortable with is Minnie Minoso. I'm an Oliva fan, but I can see why he has his detractors. But to totally eliminate all the 19th century players.....what were these guys thinking?

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Posted By: jay behrens

I thought they were getting rid of the versterns committee? It is nothing but an old cronies network to vote in their buddies that have no business in the HOF. People not in that should be for reason cited already by other people, O'Doul, Hoy and Santo.

Jay

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Posted By: Anonymous

Isn't there a bit of that good old NY bias in these selections -- more Yankees. Howard, Maris and Reynolds all had some Hall of Fame SEASONS but none had Hall of Fame CAREERS. By the way the people who made these selections from the larger group of 200 were Sportswriters -- I am guessing they are almost all Baby Boomers from their choices (and especially their ommissions).


Also: In my initial post I forgot that both Bob Meusel and Wes Ferrell were also pre-WWII players (but not Pre-WWI).

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Posted By: Brian Hodes

EOM.

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Posted By: runscott

Mays, Maris and Mantle were the heroes for a lot of kids growing up in the early '60s. I was living in Texas, didn't really follow baseball, and Maris was still one of the "big 3" for most of my childhood.

This doesn't mean he has the numbers, but it means he meant a lot to baseball - much more than a guy like, say....Phil Niekro?

And I still use the "When you were a kid, would you want to pull his card from a pack" rule.

Ed Reulbach, for instance - definitely. Of course, they would never have sold me the cigarettes to begin with.

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Posted By: Paul

I know his name already came up on this Board, but I think the biggest shame is Bob Caruthers. By some accounts, he had the best winning percentage of all time. Others place him just behind Whitey Ford. In either case, how can someone first or maybe second on such an important stat not be in the Hall? Or even on the ballot?

I think the only listed players with a reasonable chance of getting voted in are Flood and perhaps Hodges or Torre. Flood, because the players feel they owe him a debt of gratitude. Hodges because there has been an outcry for along time, and Torre because his role as Yankee manager keeps him on everyone's mind. But it is awful tough to get a 75% vote when all of the players on the ballot are frankly borderline. The old Veterans Committee achieved the required 75% only because they met in person and were able to persuade each other at the meeting. The players who could attract 75% support on an honest ballot are already in.

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Posted By: runscott

I wouldn't pick Santo or Munson, but I like Maury Wills. There were some other "fast guys" prior to wwi that were stars at the time and should also be considered - Clyde Milan in particular. And contrary to popular board opinion, my first two choices would be Ed Reulbach and Gavvy Cravath. Some of the pre-1900 players should definitely be in there also, but they didn't even make the ballot!

The final ballot they came up with is absurd, and makes a laughing stock out of the HOF in general - in my opinion the legitimacy of the organization has been compromised. But in a sport that can be ruled by someone like Bud Zelig, nothing else seems too out of the ordinary.

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Posted By: RobertS

Nap Rucker...he was a big name at the time who has faded from memories...

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Posted By: jay behrens

Decon Phillippe was a great pitcher on the great Pirates teams that dominated the NL for so long.

As for the they way players are voted in to the HOF, I personally think it stupid as hell. When the HOF first started it made sense becuase they didn't wnat to put everyone in at once, but now, carrying over players from year to year is idiotic. A player either belongs or he doesn't. 5 years after he retires, they vote on whether or not he belongs. If he doesn't get 75%, then so long and thanks for the memories. A player's career does not get better with age, and 5 years is plenty off time to see how he rated versus the players of his day.

Personally, I think someone needs to start an International Baseball HOF, that way, they weed out all the dreck voted in by the veterns committee and get players like Saduhara Oh in there.

Jay