How many card shops have become just like this......

[tcdyess]

if they are still around at all....

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/sp...anted=all&_r=0

[queencitysportscards]

I think there are a lot of factors on what defines a successful card shop. Yes, there are certainly less of them today then 5-10 years ago and the business has changed with online sales with less retail sales, but there are still plenty of thriving card shops.

I opened my shop recently and quite frankly, am really surprised at the traffic we are already getting. As of late, it's been really busy. People like the local card shop for many reasons, but also the human aspect of it...to interact with other collectors to talk about sports / collecting, selling and trading cards and just shooting the stuff. Its a nice place to get away for awhile. That's where the online market misses the mark...the stories, friendships & memories you establish at the "old card shop."

For us, it's our business and we are focusing on upcoming auctions and online sales, however, we opened to provide a nice place for collectors young and old to talk about the hobby and to build relationships with other collectors just like us...that's what makes it fun...and if you keep up with the hobby enough and adapt, you can make it a successful business too.

Happy Collecting!

[glenv]

Interesting quote about the National only being ~15% baseball cards. Wonder what percentage is vintage cards?

"At the annual National Sports Collectors Convention, which begins July 31 in Chicago, the inventory devoted to baseball cards will fall to about 15 percent from more than half in the late 1990s, according to Mike Berkus, the convention’s founder and executive director."

[tcdyess]

I wondered about that myself, 15%.... wow... I wonder how much Magic stuff will be there....

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by glenv

Interesting quote about the National only being ~15% baseball cards. Wonder what percentage is vintage cards?

"At the annual National Sports Collectors Convention, which begins July 31 in Chicago, the inventory devoted to baseball cards will fall to about 15 percent from more than half in the late 1990s, according to Mike Berkus, the convention’s founder and executive director."

It's been maybe 6 years since my last national but I find it hard to believe that baseball cards only comprise 15% of the show.

[bbcard1]

Not to sound unsympathetic, but you can take a quick glance and see what the problem is. She is displaying sheets of Tom Glavine and Dave Justice rookies. Many of the dinosaur shop owners have never gotten over the fact you can no longer sell Tommy Gregg rookies for $1, but they still keep them in their cases. Might come down to 90 cents in quantity. It is a vicious circle...they won't sell old inventory at market prices so they can't afford new inventory and conclude that the market is dead.

[Harliduck]

bbcard1...I couldn't agree more. I would walk in that shop, and walk right out...nothing in there would interest me in the least, and I won't even admit to my annual card budget, . I know vintage collectors are the minority, but one look at ebay traffic shows our hobby is alive and well, and growing. To gage our hobby by that pathetic shop is like gauging Blockbuster with the movie/dvd business. Markets change, evolve...either move with the times or be left behind. That shop looks like it should have been left behind in 1994...

[MattyC]

I find that article to be very poorly done; it is incredibly myopic, and lazily fails to try and gain an overall perspective of the hobby. If I had more free time, I would write a counter-piece to balance out that hackwork. Bottom line, that writer failed.

[Exhibitman]

Agreed. An intellectually lazy article not at all reflective of the reality of the hobby.

[ZenPop]

Don't you realize that I ate a fishstick, so fishstick sales must be up?!!

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by queencitysportscards

I think there are a lot of factors on what defines a successful card shop. Yes, there are certainly less of them today then 5-10 years ago and the business has changed with online sales with less retail sales, but there are still plenty of thriving card shops.

I opened my shop recently and quite frankly, am really surprised at the traffic we are already getting. As of late, it's been really busy. People like the local card shop for many reasons, but also the human aspect of it...to interact with other collectors to talk about sports / collecting, selling and trading cards and just shooting the stuff. Its a nice place to get away for awhile. That's where the online market misses the mark...the stories, friendships & memories you establish at the "old card shop."

For us, it's our business and we are focusing on upcoming auctions and online sales, however, we opened to provide a nice place for collectors young and old to talk about the hobby and to build relationships with other collectors just like us...that's what makes it fun...and if you keep up with the hobby enough and adapt, you can make it a successful business too.

Happy Collecting!

Good,luck to you....you are so rigght about the relationship aspect...my local card shop was always busy...he did a lot of giveaways...if you spent 20$ you got a ticket...on Sunday they would do a raffle with the tickets and give stuff away...there was standing room only on Sunday's!
Guy sold the store at its peak and the new guy ran it into the ground..this was only in 2004

[martyogelvie]

i visit a card shop maybe once a year... There is only one shop close to me and they don't focus on baseball cards as much as they do other sports trinkets. Hard to blame them, got to stay in business somehow.

[dabigyankeeman]

No good card stores around here at all. One good one closed up to sell on the internet only not too long ago. Nowhere to go anymore, just one decent show a month.

Cant believe the National is only 15% baseball cards? Geez!! Thats all i am buying now. I was intending to go up to Cleveland next year as i can visit a close friend who lives there, not sure about the show now if its so weak on baseball cards. Last show i went to was Dallas around 1990, boy, that was almost all baseball cards!

[insccollectibles]

My local card shop seems to be thriving. They have a great inventory of vintage cards and have been on ebay for a very long time. Online sales are critical to maintain in today's card market.

[Julz24]

I only have 1 shop that's near me at the moment and it's surprising to me how he stays in business. He almost never has new inventory and the cards behind the glass never get changed out. In the few times I've been there, I was the only customer.

The guy doesn't sell on Ebay either so its kind of a mystery how he pays the bills??

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by Julz24

I only have 1 shop that's near me at the moment and it's surprising to me how he stays in business. He almost never has new inventory and the cards behind the glass never get changed out. In the few times I've been there, I was the only customer.

The guy doesn't sell on Ebay either so its kind of a mystery how he pays the bills??

This is EXACTLY what I could have wrote about the 1 store in the Nashville area.
Not such an uncommon occurence I guess.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Agreed. An intellectually lazy article not at all reflective of the reality of the hobby.

+1

Comical really, on the heels of an REA auction with around $10 million in sales, and more sports auction houses opening and thriving by the year.

That article was just like the Dave Justice rookies...not worth the paper wasted to print on.

I was at the 2011 Chicago National for 3 days. Absolutely no way baseball cards only made up 15% of the inventory or sales. No way. Don't know how these numbers are determined, but they are way too low. Maybe - just maybe - prewar cards were only 15-20% of what was at the show, but I was practically blinded by row after row of shiny new(ish) baseball cards everywhere I looked. I don't collect this stuff, so it was an annoyance to me how much of it was there...

Having said this, I'm not a defender of the B&M card shop in general. Most every one I've seen in the last 20 years should have been plowed under. Whenever I travelled to a new city 20 years ago I went to every card shop and bookstore I could find. Now I still buy as many (more in fact!) cards and books, but never, ever waste my time looking for a B&M shop. 95%+ of my purchasing is done online.


Cheers,
Blair

[xcgrammer]

There are several baseball card shop in Chicago that are thriving one Baseball Card King has three locations one that just opened this year. They are organized and really have their stuff together. They have a good amount of vintage especially at one of their locations. I enjoy seeing them succeed when most are going the other way. Especially in my home town that once had four stores, now just one that is barely hanging on, mostly just coins. But yes same issue someone previously mentioned, no new inventory in the cases. He has all the early 90's stuff still. I kinda like it because it brings me back to my childhood however can't be good for business.

[Wymers Auction]

What planet does she come from? I would gladly throw away a garbage bag full of Magic cards to get to the baseball cards.

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

This is EXACTLY what I could have wrote about the 1 store in the Nashville area.
Not such an uncommon occurence I guess.

I think I went there! Excellent selection for about 1992...but it was 2012. Went pretty far out of my way and left without finding anything I could possibly consider purchasing.

[BruceWayne]

Some very interesting observations made here. Personally, I think it is difficult to refute the fact that the retail store model has needed to change with the advent of the internet. I attended the Industry Summit in Vegas this past March and I was extremely impressed with how hard-working and innovative some of the shop owners were who were in attendance. Granted, those dealers may not be a representative sample of all the shop owners in the industry but I was pretty impressed with the things they were doing to cater to the needs of their customers.

Notably, it was quite obvious to seeing the growing trend for card shops to focus on unopened wax for customers hoping to pull big insert cards. This is clearly a byproduct of the card manufacturing marketing strategy. While I understand that may make little sense to a vintage card collector, I think we need to accept this as a reality for store owners in today's environment. In addition, I noticed the new trend of "Case Breaks" is becoming more popular and that is also a product of the proliferation of information technology.

I also see a trend toward contests which include the gaming segment. Again, this stems from the reality that the younger generation is much more interactive than previous generations (a byproduct of the world in which they are reared) and these contests allow customers to come to the shops and spent time together. To my understanding, many of these contests are done with non-sport product.

Just a few observations I noticed from my attendance at the Summit. Again, I cannot stress enough how impressed I was with how hard-working and dedicated some of the shop owners are and how they work to reach the grass roots of the hobby.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

+1



I was at the 2011 Chicago National for 3 days. Absolutely no way baseball cards only made up 15% of the inventory or sales. No way. Don't know how these numbers are determined, but they are way too low. Maybe - just maybe - prewar cards were only 15-20% of what was at the show, but I was practically blinded by row after row of shiny new(ish) baseball cards everywhere I looked. I don't collect this stuff, so it was an annoyance to me how much of it was there...

I walked the entire show, and while there were fewer tables than when I last went to the National in Chicago in 05, and it seemed that I stopped at at least every other table simply because they were offering vintage. Not sure where the 15-20% estimate came from???

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

I walked the entire show, and while there were fewer tables than when I last went to the National in Chicago in 05, and it seemed that I stopped at at least every other table simply because they were offering vintage. Not sure where the 15-20% estimate came from???

I think you are saying what I'm saying...

The article that is the subject of this thread says that baseball cards - of every kind and age - comprise only 15% of "inventory" at the National now (quoting the organizer of the National).

I was saying (and I think you are also saying) that cannot be...it is way too low.

Cheers,
Blair

[Exhibitman]

The 15% figure could only be right by bulk/size, if you count all of the corporate display area, food court, bathrooms and aisles, Olympics/Euroweirdo zone, autograph area, VIP sitting area, and figure that each piece of crappy manufactured memorabilia can take up as much space as 10,000 baseball cards.

[Leon]

You guys can ask the author of the 15% number as he is set to speak at the Net54baseball Dinner again this year, Mike Berkus. In the next several days, or less, there will be an RSVP thread for said Dinner.

[tcdyess]

My thought is that the industry as a whole needs to succeed with new product in order to ever grow interest in vintage. How many of us collected cards from our local stores as kids (I remember going to the local Caldor with my parents hoping they would get me a few cello packs) and then expanded back into vintage as we grew through adulthood. Kids need to get into the hobby... period. Players like Trout, Harper, Strasburg, Machado, and now Puig have given the game a youth boost it hasn't seen in some time. Topps seems to be providing a lower priced avenue for kids to get in. Will they, who knows, but I have to say when I visit Wal-Mart or Target, I always see some kids checking out the card sections. If they do enjoy the hobby, those are hopefully the vintage collectors of the future as they leave college, start their family and look for their personal hobbies. MLB seems to be intent on cleaning up the game and focusing on marketing the new young talent. Over the next decade as the ARODs and other PED players retire, the game will hopefully enjoy and focus on some of the new and great true talents..... one can only hope....

As far as B&M, there isn't much left around me and although I miss going in and chatting about baseball and collecting, that's what NET54 is for!!!!

With rose colored glasses and glass half full....

Tim

[larrie804]

In the early 1990s there were 32 card shops in the Richmond Virginia area...today there are only three. The owner of the best is ill and planning to sell or close! Very sad!

[slidekellyslide]

There is only one card shop left in Lincoln and I think he's still doing pretty well for himself. His focus is new product with insert cards and local sports heroes like Alex Gordon and Ndamukong Suh. He has very few pre-war cards, and he still has a whole wall filled with Starting Lineups that don't appear to have been touched in a decade or two, but he's doing something right because he's still here and he almost always seems busy on the few days a year I come in to purchase supplies.

[barrysloate]

I think future hobbyists will go directly to collecting vintage cards, and bypass the current ones altogether. Opening wax packs to put a current set together is dying, but collecting vintage is popular and will continue to attract new collectors.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I think future hobbyists will go directly to collecting vintage cards, and bypass the current ones altogether. Opening wax packs to put a current set together is dying, but collecting vintage is popular and will continue to attract new collectors.

I don't believe this is true at all...most people start collecting current cards and as they learn the history of the game become attracted to vintage cards. I agree that putting together sets may be at an all time low but I also tend to think there are many more people out there in search of a Mike Trout or Yasiel Puig card than a Ty Cobb card...we may not recognize that as fact though because most of us here don't venture outside of the vintage hobby.

[camlov2]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Agreed. An intellectually lazy article not at all reflective of the reality of the hobby.

Are we talking about the hobby of collecting current baseball cards or vintage? The main focus of this board is vintage cards and I would agree that this segment of the hobby is alive and well. The article does give an accurate picture of current day baseball cards. Current cards have always been the largest part of the hobby, even if vintage is growing every year a drop in sales of current cards means a drop in the overall hobby.

[queencitysportscards]

Thanks to a Net54 board member for making the connection, but Ryan Ludwick, came in today and signed a career home run ball and ticket that a friend of mine, Ryan King, caught...Ryan suddenly passed away recently. Our staff offered the ball to Ryan and instead he offered to sign it for us too keep it in memory of Ryan. Super Nice guy and even better to talk about collecting...you never know who is going to walk in the door...

[BruceWayne]

Originally Posted by queencitysportscards

Thanks to a Net54 board member for making the connection, but Ryan Ludwick, came in today and signed a career home run ball and ticket that a friend of mine, Ryan King, caught...Ryan suddenly passed away recently. Our staff offered the ball to Ryan and instead he offered to sign it for us too keep it in memory of Ryan. Super Nice guy and even better to talk about collecting...you never know who is going to walk in the door...

Very nice to hear that Ryan Ludwick would do something so classy.

Also, my condolences regarding your friend Ryan.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I don't believe this is true at all...most people start collecting current cards and as they learn the history of the game become attracted to vintage cards. I agree that putting together sets may be at an all time low but I also tend to think there are many more people out there in search of a Mike Trout or Yasiel Puig card than a Ty Cobb card...we may not recognize that as fact though because most of us here don't venture outside of the vintage hobby.

I don't think kids are buying packs of new cards anymore. Maybe adults are, but not kids.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I don't think kids are buying packs of new cards anymore. Maybe adults are, but not kids.

+1

The front end trading card business of the big boys i.e. Wal-Mart, Target, Toys-R-US is getting smaller and smaller each year. I know this for a fact. This isn’t being cut and reduced because business is good…or just a bit down.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

+1

The front end trading card business of the big boys i.e. Wal-Mart, Target, Toys-R-US is getting smaller and smaller each year. I know this for a fact. This isn’t being cut and reduced because business is good…or just a bit down.

Well I don't really believe that business is good for the baseball card industry, I just don't feel that Barry's statement that people are forgoing new card collecting and heading straight to vintage is exactly true. I would bet most new vintage collectors headed to vintage because of products like Topps Heritage and Allen & Ginter. And I do believe there are more people searching out the newer baseball stars than there are people looking for a T206 Cobb.

I do agree though that kids just aren't buying cards anymore...it's all a gambling racket with new product and has been for more than a decade. Who drops $5,000 on a card of a guy who has only been in the big leagues for a month?? That card might not be worth more than a buck ten years from now. Smart people are putting that $5,000 down on a guy already in the hall of fame that's been dead for 50 years.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Well I don't really believe that business is good for the baseball card industry,.

Not sure I follow Dan, having cards in department stores has been a part of the American landscape for some time. Anyone have the image of all the 52 Topps on the table at the Woolworth handy?

Bottom line if mainstream retailers are cutting back and local card shops are disappearing from the landscape choices for impressions via new cards will be less. This has been coming for years and years no reason card packs needed to get to the prices they went to.

The scratch off ticket mentality was the downfall of the modern card collecting business. Quite simply it priced out the casual collector who wasn’t interested in paying big bucks for the chance to rip packs and find chase cards.

Less and less young people are buying trading cards & stickers this is a fact, sad but true and the current retail landscape echoes this.

[slidekellyslide]

I agree with everything you've written...I said that business is NOT good for card companies. I still believe there are far more people looking for modern player cards than there are Ty Cobb collectors. I don't even think this is disputable.

[barrysloate]

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb. But that is not the discussion. I am saying that the number of young people buying packs today is a miniscule fraction of what it was when I was growing up, in the late 50's and early 60's. Back then buyng baseball cards was a rite of passage, done by almost every kid of my generation. Today virtually no young people buy them.

So if there is a future for the vintage card market, and I believe there is, it will start with people collecting their first baseball cards as adults, and it will be the older cards. It may be early Topps and Bowman, it may be Goudey or tobacco, but these future collectors will have no childhood memories of collecting them.

[kmac32]

Would anybody like to buy a Carlos Marmol rookie, I'm sure somebody can get it gardaed and you will have to pay someone to buy it. Reverse economics. LOL

[travrosty]

kids arent buying, the adults are for 100 dollars a pack, hoping to get that autograph insert card, you might as well have all the commons in the packs just blank pieces of white cardboard, they basically all go in the trash anyway. they just want the "hit" the memorabilia jersey card or the autograph card or the vintage autograph insert card. it's like a scratch off lottery that others have mentioned already.

kids arent buying these packs and trying to put together sets like we used to.

[sb1]

back then, packs were available at the I.G.A., the local ball diamond snack shack, the Duckwall's store, hell even the swimming pool concession stand had some, etc. and this was in a town of 2,000 population. My first year of 1969 Topps baseball, they were a nickel a pack. Now every kid in town had change from selling pop bottles or allowances, my grandmother would give me a dollar, that 20 packs! and Al McBean was in every 1st series pack it seemed like.

Nowadays, packs are several dollars, kids no longer work for change or get allowances(they get stipends instead) and need a friggin debit card(I do not use one) to make purchases.

While we decry this as an atrocity, it's simply evolution of a society and a collectible which unfortunately are not going to survive.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb. But that is not the discussion. I am saying that the number of young people buying packs today is a miniscule fraction of what it was when I was growing up, in the late 50's and early 60's. Back then buyng baseball cards was a rite of passage, done by almost every kid of my generation. Today virtually no young people buy them.

So if there is a future for the vintage card market, and I believe there is, it will start with people collecting their first baseball cards as adults, and it will be the older cards. It may be early Topps and Bowman, it may be Goudey or tobacco, but these future collectors will have no childhood memories of collecting them.

I misunderstood you then, Barry. I completely agree.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

So if there is a future for the vintage card market, and I believe there is, it will start with people collecting their first baseball cards as adults, and it will be the older cards. It may be early Topps and Bowman, it may be Goudey or tobacco, but these future collectors will have no childhood memories of collecting them.

What will do you think will be their motivation to collect vintage cards?

I'd be curious to hear from those who did NOT collect as a kid. What got you started as an adult? (I have my guesses but I don't want to presume)

[barrysloate]

Their motivation may be nothing more than the fun of collecting. Look at all the collectors today spending multi-millions of dollars on paintings. Well, none of them collected art as kids, that's for sure. These are people who now make a lot of money and have developed a passion in their adulthood. Why would baseball cards be any different?

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb.

I'm sure any of us could have said the same, Barry, but it's Mike Trout, not Steve. At least you didn't call him Dizzy!

[cobblove]

Just thought Id add my thoughts on the "Dying hobby"
I agree it is alive and well with current internet sales.
But on the concern of the younger people getting into the hobby. I think it does not start and end with the sports card hobby shop. It's completely about the game in general. Its about getting the kids playing the game and also respecting the current players. And making it easy to see a real game to respect the game. My thoughts I think we need to make it easier to have kids go to a game and not make it a 1 time a year event like disnyland(ticket prices seem to be very strong). It needs to be a family driven price for tickets to get in and learn the game. i know they make an effort on this but the prices are getting higher and attendance seems lower. I hear a lot lately that baseball is boring to watch. But all i see is tickets going for more than a flight to the next state. There are several problems I think. And my view is that it needs to go back to why whe enjoy collecting a sport as a hobby.
Just saying my concerns and not the norm Im sure.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb.

There are people looking for Steve Trout cards?

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Their motivation may be nothing more than the fun of collecting. Look at all the collectors today spending multi-millions of dollars on paintings. Well, none of them collected art as kids, that's for sure. These are people who now make a lot of money and have developed a passion in their adulthood. Why would baseball cards be any different?

Exactly! This is the point I try to make in every fate of the hobby thread.

I doubt many 16 year olds are drinking $300 bottles of wine or using stamps. When was the last time you saw someone under the age of 18 use a penny? The hobby will be fine, I'm not worried.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by scooter729

I'm sure any of us could have said the same, Barry, but it's Mike Trout, not Steve. At least you didn't call him Dizzy!

Oops!....and he's one of my favorite players.