Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[Eric72]

"Gone with the stain. Dick Towle"
Some jokes write themselves.

As some of you know, I personally think that soaking a card constitutes alteration. Yes, I understand that mine is a minority opinion, and don't wish to revisit my recent vodka fueled rant on the subject.

What I do wish is...to state here that someone using chemicals (other than the universal solvent) to remove stains from a card, if they go to sell it without disclosing the alteration, is just plain wrong. And, in my opinion, anyone who has someone else perform the alteration before selling the card without full disclosure is just as unethical.

Additionally, and here is the reason for me leaving this post, I place Mr. Towle in the same category as those who sell pack wrappers with the original pieces of gum or sell the original flips from cracked out graded cards.

Enabling fraud is just shy of actually committing it. Just my two cents...and I actually don't apologize if that statement offends anyone...especially Mr. Dick Towle.

Best regards, and happy to stand by my opinion by having my full name in this post.

[bn2cardz]

I am in the minority and have never had any fixes done, but I don't have an issue with what Mr Towle does. He doesn't add paper or color to cover flaws or take away parts of the card to give an appearance of four sharp corners. The card is 100% original. What he does give the card back some of its luster. Especially the way he removes a card from a scrapbook. I would much rather have the cards he removes from a scrapbook than one where the entire back is ripped off. I consider what he does more of a preservation than an alteration.

[vintagetoppsguy]

To debate whether his service is right or wrong is one thing, but making fun is his name is kind of juvenile.

FWIW, I have never used his service, but I have bought cards from him - about a dozen or so 1956 Topps. They were advertised as NM. I sent them all to SGC for grading and 2 came back a 6, 2 came back an 8 and all the others were either 7 or 7.5. So, his assessment of the cards were spot on. I don't know if any of the cards that I purchased were "cleaned" or not, and I really don't care but, if they were, they got by SGC's graders.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't know if any of the cards that I purchased were "cleaned" or not, and I really don't care but, if they were, they got by SGC's graders.

Sure...why care? So long as the card gets slabbed, why should a serious collector bother getting involved?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Sure...why care? So long as the card gets slabbed, why should a serious collector bother getting involved?

+1

Not sure what is more juvenile having a harmless good natured laugh at someone’s name. Or not caring if you have been taken to the cleaners no pun intended on doctored cards that are all good because they made it into holders to pass onto the next guy.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Not sure what is more juvenile having a harmless good natured laugh at someone’s name. Or not caring if you have been taken to the cleaners no pun intended on doctored cards that are all good because they made it into holders to pass onto the next guy.

Since you aren't sure let me help you out. It is making fun of someone's name. Not caring about how the previous owner handled the cards prior to you owning is either a well thought out decision on your collecting preference or apathy. Making fun some someone's name is nothing more than a lack of maturity.

[Matt E.]

Dick or anyone,

Just wondering how much does it cost to have a stain or stains removed?

Do tobacco stains cost more than water stains? What determines the cost?

Thanks,

Matt

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Sure...why care? So long as the card gets slabbed, why should a serious collector bother getting involved?

If I buy a card that was "cleaned" and I can't detect any evidence, you can't detect any evidence, the graders can't detect any evidence and nobody else can detect any evidence, then what does it really matter? What can be done?

Maybe it's not that I don't care, but I would rather focus my efforts on the types of alterations that do leave evidence and that we can do something about.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Since you aren't sure let me help you out. It is making fun of someone's name. Not caring about how the previous owner handled the cards prior to you owning is either a well thought out decision on your collecting preference or apathy. Making fun some someone's name is nothing more than a lack of maturity.

Thanks for your guidance Andy, or should I say Andy Bo Bandy.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Eric72

"Gone with the stain. Dick Towle"
Some jokes write themselves.

As some of you know, I personally think that soaking a card constitutes alteration. Yes, I understand that mine is a minority opinion, and don't wish to revisit my recent vodka fueled rant on the subject.

What I do wish is...to state here that someone using chemicals (other than the universal solvent) to remove stains from a card, if they go to sell it without disclosing the alteration, is just plain wrong. And, in my opinion, anyone who has someone else perform the alteration before selling the card without full disclosure is just as unethical.

Additionally, and here is the reason for me leaving this post, I place Mr. Towle in the same category as those who sell pack wrappers with the original pieces of gum or sell the original flips from cracked out graded cards.

Enabling fraud is just shy of actually committing it. Just my two cents...and I actually don't apologize if that statement offends anyone...especially Mr. Dick Towle.

Best regards, and happy to stand by my opinion by having my full name in this post.

Do you also believe it is wrong to have works of art cleaned and restored?

I'm not picking an arguement with you, as I agree that full disclosure must be practiced.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Do you also believe it is wrong to have works of art cleaned and restored?

I'm not picking an arguement with you, as I agree that full disclosure must be practiced.

Noble goal, but has anyone received full disclosure on any 100 year old card that they have purchased? Provenance when available is interesting and when available should be pursued, but I have never seen or heard of a card being promoted with a statement that indicates that the card was cracked out of a PSA slab in 2003 and resubmitted to SGC. Or that a card was sent to PSA seven times until it got the desired the grade. Or how that card may have been stored, handled or displayed for its first 90 years of existence.

Personally I have absolutely no knowledge of what happened to any of my cards in 1964, and in 2064 I doubt that any collectors (with the possible exception of wazoo) will know what a Dick Towle is, what it did or what it means.

Those who practice restoration (by any method) with an intent to deceive will not disclose. As I said, full disclosure is a noble goal, but perhaps a fantasy in the real world and all the pontification in the world will not change that.

Disclaimer: I agree with everyone who has posted in this thread, and add this editorial comment without prejudice, so don't try to pick a fight with me.